extracted..from pdf/gone west..

(2)What..*do you mean;..by
“believe”?..Believe what?

<<..I mean..*belief generally,..belief in a future..life..and God,..in fact..‘belief.’..*The first thing..to do..is to believe
something.>>

ANYTHING*

<<..It does/not..so much matter..what,
so long as..you believe...something

A nigg*er believing in
a fetish..is better*off..than a man..who believes nothing..at all*...

Believe..in..something!>>

its a key-point.

a bit..earlier...<<..of course..there are no..class-distinctions..HERE..as such...There are no
Tories here,..perhaps..because there’s no plunder,..

*but at the same-time..lack of education in...the widest sense..results in something*..which at first sight*..rather looks like class..that is,..men who think..*and believe alike*

..each..fall into sets...
The richer/classes,..who are more
cultured,..shall we say,..are generally..in different groups..from the poor...>>

..<<..J.W...“Then I gather..that you are
*in this world..and see it as we do.”

H.J.L...“We are*..in this world,
*but not restricted to it...

Moreover,..it does not look the same..to us as to you.
We..see much more...we see the past,..and some,I believe,..can see the future,..though I cannot.You will understand that...YOU*..FORESAW MY DEATH>>

,,<<..“To return..to how..‘I’ ‘come’ to you.
I just think..of you,..or,rather, concentrate my
thoughts..*on you*..to the exclusion of..ALL..other things.

That..is getting quite easy,..though at first..it was very difficult...But it’s not so easy..to get..*your spirit
*..in ‘tune’ with mine,..so that I
can communicate/with you...>>

<<..there’s not only something..but almost everything in telepathy.
It’s the outer edge..of those faculties..which we have to develop here...

*It’s the main link
between our world and yours.

You know..that some people have learnt of things which are
happening..to their friends at a distance.*We all can do so here,
!

and that is the way we..communicate..*with each other;
YET..speech does not exist with us.

This explains those sayings
in the Bible..about nothing shall be hid.

*You cannot tell lies here..Nor be deceived.
But that is not all,..*for every separate thought..*exists of itself and..we..*..can see them all.

“This explains..the doctrine of the Catholics
(at which I used to laugh)..that a really*!*
evil thought,*..such as murder,.,.is worse than a venial sin.

“My punishment..consists largely of this,
that all my evil deeds..and thoughts rise up
before me..*in as real a shape as I myself possess.

They are there with all the surrounding
impedimenta.”
J. W. “What do you mean by that?”..
CONTINUES

HJ.L...“Well, Jack,..I don’t want you to think worse..of me,
so..instead of quoting a..real offence,..I’WIll show you.what I mean by a fictitious one.

“Suppose..a man committed a murder,..or even meditated DOING..one
not merely the actual murder,..but all the surrounding details,..such as the furniture..and room in which it..was,..*or
was intended to be committed,..ALL,,are here.NOW.”

J.W.“Then..do you mean to say..that there is no difference
between the fault..*thought of..and one committed? “

H.J.L.“It all depends..*on the reason*..why it was not.

Supposing..your better nature
gains the upper/hand..and you refuse*..to act as your lower/nature prompts you;..*then,..after seeing the evil thought,..you will be refreshed..*by seeing the good one..for all your good/deeds and thoughts..come here also.

“If the sin..had not been committed
solely because you were prevented..*by something else,..*then there would be no good thought..to refresh your weary spirit.

Of course..a man
may be temporarily prevented..from giving way to an evil passion.. and afterwards rejoice that it should have been so.

All that..*he will see here.

Thus each one lives..in a world of his
own creating,..here..and the more nearly..his world approximates to that..*of others around him,..the more company,..the less solitude will he have.

“Solitude is one of the worst punishments here,
and so those who, though having
many faults,..*yet loved much..*and had many friends,..yet..get their reward..>>

<<..I don’t
really know..exactly what happens,
but as we go on thinking here..we create fresh
thoughts,..and as these are of a nobler nature..than those we thought on earth,

they refresh us and enable us..to bear more easily..the grief we feel for our former faults.

“We realize as faults here things..that on earth we deceived ourselves into thinking..*were not faults.

“I should add that at first..it’s rather like a hideous nightmare: — all one’s dead
thoughts..come crowding round;..but after a time they seem to fall into a distinct order,

but
I can’t explain how...At any rate, things become easier.

A lot of what I have been telling
you I have recently learnt from my teacher.
I have also..learnt a lot from some of the MANY..others.>>..like ,myself.

Dear George,

The Virgin Birth is a dogma of your faith. If you had never heard of it then it would probably never have entered your mind. I gather a Catholic is obligated to believe in dogma. One meaning of believing in dogma is to believe because some authority figure who has put down the dogma maintains it is your obligation to believe. You can accept that, and you will do so. As long as you don't try to put it on me you can believe what you like.

The bishop you cited could not say other than what he did say because he is obligated to subscribe to church dogma. What he actually believes we cannot know. I am free openly to doubt. The bishop wasn't. Possibly you are also not free to openly express your doubts.

I think it better to accept only those items which seem reasonable to me to accept.

the negativity abounds
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5978&page=0
but thankfully not here

but
as i was listening..to cliff richard..singing the fathers prayer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1cG-4YSyhQ&list=PL9706FE91E54F5E77

Our Father,..Who art in heaven
Hallowed..be Thy Name;
Thy kingdom come,
.....*
Thy will..be done,
on earth*..as it is..in heaven.*

THY WILL..BE DONE..>>on earth..
AS IT IS*..in heaven!

[as..i posted..in the..two previous posts
of how..it really is*..in heaven..

[as reported via gonewest pdf]
http://new-birth.net/booklet/Gone_West.pdf

Give us this day..our daily bread,..
[we dont 'eat'..and time =one on going/eternal..'day'

and forgive us..our trespasses/as we forgive..those who trespass against us;

/..ahh-men

“‘Now..it is difficult for you to understand..our arrangements here; it is very different..from what you are usually taught...It is not however..so much that the original teaching of the church was wrong, but..that it has been misinterpreted*..by its teachers.

At the best,...they only show..a part of the truth.
Not even here..do we know all*..the truth.

Truth..is like a diamond..with many facets.
Each facet..contains part,..*but only part,of..the truth.
Some facets..are larger than others;..*so all creeds exist..because of the ‘facet’..of truth,..however small,..which they possess.

No faith..which had no element..of truth could exist at
all..for any space of time on earth...Often,however,..the ‘facet’ is very small.

The larger..the amount of truth,..the stronger
that faith..will,as a rule,..grow...Thus the Roman Catholics are
a numerous body,..but neither they..*nor any Sect possess all the truth.

They simply form..one of the communities..which exist..in the sets where men believed...There are also..Buddhists..and ‘heathen’..there, and,..indeed,*..all religions.

From this stage..we advance until we have gathered in..all truth,..and then we shall really know..*what is meant by God.

But
that is..far hence.
“Since,..however,it is easier..for you to comprehend..*the new facts with which..I am about to deal..*if you can attach them to some theory..with which you are acquainted,

I shall..adopt the general plan of Heaven,..Purgatory,and Hell.

Be under no misunderstanding,..as depicted by many persons..*these names are wholly misleading...*But if accepted..as a
convenient..*and rough classification,..they will be helpful.

One fact,however,
you must..clearly grasp.

So far as I can discover..there is no evidence..of the eternity of Hell...Drop..that idea and the rest..will be easy to understand.

.

Dear David and George,

.

George: « I don't see faith as opposed to bigotry. I see bigotry as a kind of faith. I think it is a false dichotomy.”
.

I see bigotry as a perversion of faith. There is a bright side of the coin and a dark side. I see a virtue on one side and a vice on the other. In that, they oppose each other even though each is a different version of the same thing.
.

George: [ What is the “corollary of the god concept”?]
.

The corollary of God is the devil. Two sides to the same coin. Impossible to have one without the other. Adam and Eve. Abel and Cain. Romulus and Remus... If there is good there is bad. Good needs bad for harmony. It is indispensible and inevitable. The law of nature.
.

George: “ Yin in Chinese philosophy is often referred to as the opposite of Yang, and vice-versa. “
.

I think your second version of yin and yang being complementary to each other is closer to Chinese philosophy.

Another way of understanding it is what I imagine Freud saying to one of his patients: “That horrible witch who haunts your nightmares is your gentle loving mother”. Just another aspect or version of the same person, or perhaps a different (unconsciously repressed) perception we might have of that person.

.

(Continued)

.

.

(Continued)

.

David: “ The periodic table does not demonstrate the number of natural elements is limited at all. It merely gives an order to the elements we know of. New elements have been created since the periodic table was first developed. For all we know the number of new elements that can be created is infinite. Of course natural has more than one meaning. It can mean what is found in nature or it can mean that which is not supernatural. I was using the latter meaning.”
.

My knowledge of the periodic table of elements is limited to what I read in Wikipedia, from which I deduced that the number of “natural” elements was limited. It seemed to indicate that new additions to the table resulted from new elements created by mankind, not as a result of the discovery of previously unknown “natural” elements.

Here is the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table
.

On virgin birth:
.

I understand that virgin birth or parthenogenesis is not possible in human beings. Apparently it occurs naturally in many plants, some invertebrate animals such as water fleas, some scorpions, bees, and parasitic wasps.

It also occurs in a few vertebrates such as some fish, reptiles and a few birds.

It is highly regrettable that the authors of the bible affirm the virgin birth of Jesus as an indisputable fact because it inevitably throws discredit on everything else they wrote.

Unfortunately, their religious fervour and desire to impress has not withstood the test of time.

No need to invent anything if what they had to say were true.
.

David: “Any belief is in something for which there is no proof.”
.

I can also believe in something for which there is proof. In fact, I usually do.

Allow me to re-submit the following definitions:

“Faith” is belief where there is no material evidence, only circumstantial evidence or a credible eye witness (or both).

"Blind faith" is belief where there is no material evidence, no circumstantial evidence and no credible eye witness.

.