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The Forum > Article Comments > Some thoughts on the Bali bombing > Comments

Some thoughts on the Bali bombing : Comments

By Irfan Yusuf, published 5/10/2005

Irfan Yusuf argues the Bali bombing was an attack on Indonesian Islam.

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The terrorists' directive commands them to kill Christians and Jews, to kill all Americans and make no distinctions among military and civilians, including women and children.
Little in Islam's history, dating back to 610 AD, when Muhammad began preaching, and 622AD, from which Islam dates its calendar, has not demonstrated an inclination towards peace and, for decades now, its imams have preached hatred against Israel and the United States. Despite suppressing militant Moslem movements in their own nations, most of the Middle East leadership also contributed to their upkeep and permitted their media to validate their fanaticism.
While Westerners are accustomed to expressing ourselves plainly and openly, one of the difficulties to be faced in the days ahead is that the opposite is true of Arab culture. In addition, Arabs live with too many bogeyman fantasies about Jews. It clouds their ability to see things as they are.
There is, however, a very big difference between Islam and Christianity. Writing in "Jihad in the West: Muslim Conquests from the 7th to the 2lst Centuries", "'The sword is the key to heaven and hell,' Muhammad told his followers. Six hundred years earlier, Christ had said, 'He who lives by the sword shall perish by the sword.' It can be said that Moslems who kill are following the commands of Muhammad. To ignore these differences-and they exist between Islam and all other religions-is to ignore a terrible truth, one that has been articulated by the leaders of Islam since its beginning. The late Ayatollah Khomeini whose Islamic revolution overthrew the Shah of Iran is a saint to millions of Moslems around the world. This is what he said of Jihad: "It means the conquest of non-Muslim territory. The domination of Quranic Law from one end of the earth to the other is the final goal of this war of conquest."
Posted by All-, Thursday, 20 October 2005 6:10:06 PM
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F.H. Dakwah... I should have written Da'wah .. maybe u know it now ?
its the 'missionary call' to Islam. Dakway is the malay/Indonesianization of the Arabic.

I read your post quite closely. I note that you made all kinds of points about the personal life of Mohamed, and I'm wondering about your sources ? I can only assume they are the same ones that the 4 major schools of Islamic Jurisprudence use, Quran + Hadith.
Which also include the information about Mohamed which John Kaktuz has been presenting here.

Without Mohamed....there is no 'Islam' because it came from him.
So, scrutiny of his life becomes paramount in assessing the validity of his claims

I note specifically, your reference to his 'difficult years' after which he had the strength to 'fight' and indeed he did it. Which suggests, that if he had the strength of numbers from day one, he would have been fighting then also. It also raises an important issue:

Why ? is it neccessary to 'FIGHT' for Allah ? I present to you the young Christian church, feeble in all ways, persecuted not for 13 yrs but more like 300 ! but in all that time- NO FIGHTING, yet it grew .. and grew...and grew...... the spoken WORD about the living WORD is what caused it to grow.

The Church Persecuted and Scattered (Acts 6)
On that day a great persecution broke out against the church at Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria. 2Godly men buried Stephen and mourned deeply for him. 3But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison.

Philip in Samaria
4Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went.

Note from the above.

1/ Saul (later Paul) was dragging men and women off... persecution.
2/ Response, the disciples are scattered, and they proclaimed. (repentance and salvation)

No fighting.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 20 October 2005 7:57:45 PM
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Posters

Greg Carey's 4bc Brisbane 1116 issued a radio alert for Indonesia at around 12 mid-day today. Intelligence said - 40 known suicide bombers, Australians warned not to go to Indonesia (unless urgent), Aussies living in Indonesia to come home, the possibility of a third Bali bombing. This information was gained by Greg through an interview with an Australiian expert.

Cheers
Kay
Posted by kalweb, Thursday, 20 October 2005 8:22:22 PM
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There! That's another century of comments for me!!
Posted by Irfan, Friday, 21 October 2005 12:51:33 AM
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Irfan,

You are establishing a new precedent: “Islam sells”.

Philo,

I was barely answering your questions, I spent years in my search trip and science is only one aspect of it. If you are into Muslims / Christians debate, please follow this link:
www.themodernreligion.com/comparative.html

Also, please refer to the following books banned from the bible:
The Life of Adam and Eve
The infancy Gospel of Thomas
The Book of Jubilees
The Gospel of Barnabos

BD,

“Without Mohamed..No Islam” is a missionary myth that is probably the reason why even though with millions Missionaries and billions of dollars you are not moving forward.

Mohamed (PBUH) never claimed any divinity or status to himself; he inspired people through actions and showed them the miracle within. He was working until his last days, playing with his children, milking his goat, etc.. He left no wealth behind but a mule and a shield. He fed the poors and respected his treaties and taught his religion.
When Christians came to his house, he would give them part of his prayer area to worship. He is the one who said: ‘if anyone carries out an aggression against people of the book, I am his enemy on the judgement day’.

Islam as I see it is and compared it is a logical and tolerant religion.

My references are Arabic History, Arab Christian historians, and western historians (William Muir, George Sale). The missionaries writing and translations are quiet misleading since I compare Arabic scriptures to English versions.

-All,

Just a minor correction, the “Arabs-Jews” hating each other myth is a 20th century stuff. Jews and Arabs are cousins and Jews always lived in Arab / Muslim countries. My father and great grand father before him in Egypt had Jewish friends amongst others. Since the state of Israel appeared hate seemed to serve both sides for a while: driving Jews out of Arab states to live in Israel and mislead arabs to put all Jews in the “bad” basket to assist dictators creating the Israelophobia”

Do not confuse “post Israel” politics with religion.
Posted by Fellow_Human, Friday, 21 October 2005 10:03:41 AM
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Fellow_Human,
The books you mention above I have in my personal library, already read and critiqued; plus copies of ancient fragments including Dead Sea scrolls, contemporary historians and official letters and ante Nicene Church fathers etc. One of the men I currently work with who attends the same church as myself was previously the Theological Books Store Manager for Moore Theological College' he shares with me reading of the latest releases.

The gospel of Philip is gnostic, and reveals a lot about the thought and character of the man, seems to fit with his confused view of God. Jesus confronted such just before his death [John 14: 1 - 12].
Posted by Philo, Friday, 21 October 2005 12:50:50 PM
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