Kaktuz,

That’s interesting, so lack of conceptual consistency is a proof that the religion is bad.
Well, you can either choose to judge a religion by those who follow its teachings or by whatever they claim themselves to be.

Let me give you (and Boaz David) my comparative view:

- Islam: generally, all Muslims would/should follow the Quran. If an Australian Muslim and an American Muslim study the religion properly (ie the Quran, reason or circumstances of revelations, contextual understanding) they will come to the same exact understanding and practice and that is among 99% of Muslims. It is easy for a Muslim to single out the inconsistency (ie wahabism/ Sayed Kotb writing, etc.) which were in essence political movements disguised as Islam).
- Christianity: it varies vastly on how it is preached. It can be preached as tolerant, or Nazism (all through the church). On a sunny day in 1991 when serving during the 1st gulf war on the African East coast when I saw American soldiers after a church service, painting crosses and virgin Mary on Tank shells and air to surface missiles. Orthodox Christians in the Mediterranean and East Europe interprets ‘turn the other cheek’ in an interesting way: “slapped on your right cheek means you were hit from behind! (people are right handed by default)” so what Jesus meant was to turn around and fight back!”.

The word Islam means Peaceful submission to the will of God. It has no other meaning (unless in a restaurant “is lamb”).

Muslim apologetics who labeled terrorists as extremists or fundamentalists made a mistake it confused Muslims and non-Muslims. Islamists terror lost their faith because to call yourself a Muslim means you can’t step on an ant let alone kill an innocent soul. They should be fought and stopped predominantly by Muslims. To me, an extremist Muslim should be the one who sells his watch to feed the poor.

BD,

Again why did you assume I don’t like Christianity?
Let me gave you my religious formula:

I see Islam = Christianity - Trinity.

Peace

New Testament Christian: The trinity isn't Biblical teaching it's Roman Catholic construct to place the conception of Jesus humanity fathered by God - God's-his-human-father. They conclude he's God on this basis but seperate from God. Jesus talked about another spirit from God which they construct as three spatial beings. [Qur'an-supports-their-view-trinity]

This isn't what is taught in the NT doctrine, even the apostle John doesn't mention it. He is establishing that Jesus was truly the chosen Messiah /son of God [John 1: 32 - 34;in spiritual terms the anointed Christ = the son of God].

John defines what being born of God means in John 3: 1-15, and it's not on the basis of natural birth [john 1: 12 - 18]. This major aspect of his teaching is concerning how one becomes a son of God. The examination of Christ's spirit in his words, attitudes and actions demonstrates this spirit was born of God [from God]. He said that the words, works and character he displayed was not of his human self it's God in him doing the works, revealing the truth. Jesus never encouraged worship of himself but always directed worship to God, "Thou shall worship the Lord thy God and him only shall you serve". God was the God of Jesus, and Jesus was chosen to be the Christ, revealing the spirit of God. Proper understanding of God being called Father is essential to understanding Jesus relationship to his calling and to God. We don't worship the human Jesus, we worship the revelation of the character of God he expressed, and the wisdom of the words he spoke that revealed more than natural reasoning, and the acts he performed on the sick, injured and social outcasts that demonstrated a compassion we believe reveals the compassion of God.

Examine these essential characteristics in Christ's life they reveal God. I read and understand the behaviour of Mahomet, leaves me doubting his spirit was born of God or expressed the heart of God. Similar to Joshua, but a greater than Joshua or Mahomet has been among us. Learn of and follow him!

Philo,

God reveals himself in the fact that we are living breathing thinking feeling beings (practically we are few gallons of water, grams of calcite and salt, iron and a pin head of phosphorous). He reveals himself through nature animal, trees, weather, and life cycle.

The following article will explain to you how Muslims see Jesus:

http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/contents.html

Peace,

F.H. .. I was not saying you 'dislike' Christianity mate, just that you misunderstand it :)

You made your choice, and if your difficulty with the Christian faith is the 'Trinity' then I recommend you try to wipe the concept out of your mind totally, and stick with the scriptures. I said this also to Philo, who has sought to 'define' Jesus.

When we try to 'define' him in terms which are totally satisfying to the rational mind, we will end up wither rejecting/modifying his Divinity or His Humanity.

Where the scriptures say "I and the Father are one" then we can accept this, and where it says "I do as my Father has shown me" or words to that effect, we can see His 'Sonship' when he speaks of the Holy Spirit, (another, allos.. 'same as') another comforter, we can accept that also as His indwelling reality in our lives.

As I mentioned previously, the "Trinity" as a doctrine is an attempt by men to define God in systematic terms,based on the revealed Word,
It is also a defence against falsehood which arose in many forms in the early days. Usually by people placing too much emphasis on Christs 'humanity' or his 'Divinity'.

We cannot judge a faith by those who claim to follow it, but we can (as Jesus taught) Judge followers by their actions.

"I give you a new commandment, that you love one another, by this, all men shall know that you are my disciples, that you have love, one for another"

I've just been on a mens retreat, around 40 of us went away, and it was a true demonstration and experience of that very love which Jesus spoke of.

If Christians or those claiming to be such show a poor uncaring or unloving attitude, you may describe them as 'lousy Christians' but one can never speak of a 'Lousy Christ' :)

Take care.

Islam denies the one atonement offered for all sins for all time to any vile person that truly repents. This sacrifice of one moral person [Jesus Christ]one time to end all blood atonement sacrifice as was practised by Judaism. The Jews practiced blood sacrifices of substitute animals for atonement for their sins.

In Christianity a vile criminal outcast can find total forgiveness and cleansing in life now without his death. This is grace, they deserve death, but are offered freedom from guilt. They can be totally freed from guilt by acceptance of God's grace repentance for his past, and know a perfect new life from his former sins and he does not have to be punished for his past sins. This was the case of the murdering Pharisee who became the apostle Paul.

In Islam the past sins are weighed against the total life and the mercy of God before one enters total forgiveness; unless you are a martyr. Islam upholds blood sacrifice of humans for atonement.

Islam support the idea that those with a previous criminal record the vilest in society like the Bali bommers can atone for their own sins as a martyr for Allah. In Islam this is a sure cleansing for all past sin as they kill the enemies of Allah. Sinners dieing for their own sins, yet finding the paradice of God. This means in the spiritual realm they have not died at all, in fact they have found new life for their past crimes by their own blood. Where are the scales of justice?

This view eminates from the teaching of ancient Zoroastrian, not from the great teacher, Jesus Christ.

Hi Irfan,
I don't know if you have read this, but I think you should:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20051014&articleId=1085

This is a transcript of O'Shea's SBS documentary, featuring an interview with Gus Dur. The article suggests that corruption and incompedent Aust. foreign policy is driving terrorism in Indonesia.
I think militant Islamism has something to do with it as well. It is too easy to over simplify.

I support your views on Islam and encourage you to pursue your vision. Looking forward to further dialogue.

Regards, Paul.