Shockadelic:
"War requires strategy and tactics, something that requires clear thinking and planning.

Were Napolean, Hannibal and Alexander the Great just crazy, out-of-control maniacs?"

Sardonic right?
If you're serious read the last part of Tolstoy's War and Peace, where he talks about the strategy and "genius" of war.

Philo,
suitably, I've just watched Mel Brooks' musical "The Producers" for the umpteenth time--you know, "Springtime for Hitler and Germany", a gay romp. I watch it religiously at this time of year. It'd do Major Wallace good to watch it. It's a tonic!
I'll wear a white feather any time, with pride. It takes guts to stand up against monumental crap.

Sorry forgot the clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwhD10lYGVE

Poirot,
Do you want freedom of choice or determinism? God does not create wars. The lusts of the carnal desires creates the conflict because man is a being empowered by choice. It is man that is the problem not God. Because all life is mortal it all has a beginning and an end, which is how we are designed and we must operate within.

You posted, "Makes you wonder why a "loving God" would design an "intelligent" species so fond of squabbling over territory and resources - and one who consistently inflicts such cold calculated acts of savagery upon its own kind".

Squeers

Love "Springtime for Hitler" - thanks for the laugh.

Tristan Ewans

You have not responded to my comment that >> qualities of patience, forgiveness, compassion << "Are not the exclusive preserve of christianity". Therefore I assume you agree these virtues do not require belief in christianity.

Philo

>> God does not create wars. <<

Read your bible, your god "ordered, assisted in, or approved of dozens of complete genocides".

http://tinyurl.com/3nje564

You can't just read the 'nice' bits without considering the nasty things god gets his followers to do.

why do those
claiming to hold authoritive..*knowing
so missrepresent..the true-values..of love/grace/mercy

god..[the father of all living]
is the greatest lover..of all* men
being the best..men...the best..of mankind
as man by being kind..may become..can become
[shall become]..

he is not a dreaded judge of mankind
indeed far from it..he alone sustains to live..
even the most vuile living

not to judge them
but that..they CHOSE
to turn their back..upon their will..to sin

[go..and will to sin no more]

he has no mercy to give
[for he alone sees only the good]
in judging us not..he need not forgive..even our judgment..of our/own vile

men did the vile..upon men
it is for men..to for-give
correction?..not from him who alone is all good

he has no judgment..nor pardon
[for he alone knows..
sin is a judgment..we cast upon others]

he made heaven..the place of perfection
we made the earth..to be whatever we chose it to be
we alone created hell..by rejecting his perfect place

he formulated no petty rules..nor laws
this is made of man..for men..by orthodoxy
that sees..all..*of man as unclean..as sinner's..
as being lover's of hate/loving their sin...

[its authodox'y spin]

he alone..holds no wrath

this is a value
of the church

a value of man..
judging con-trolling
other men

live your reality
not theirs

your values
not theirs

dare to ask what life/living..gives
he gives..us all life

he gave us a perfect heaven
an eternity of good

he only gives us..an oppertuinity to chose
his eternal perfections..for you
or to push them away from you

his devine will
is your eternal contentment
[does govt do this..or seek to judge you..

just who's value is this]

not the fathers
nor his favoured messenger

jesus came
not to found a new church
nor found a new religeon...nor faulse judgmental beliefs

we can all chose..to become saints
or chose to remain demons..

or worse remain mere man..

you are the fruit*
you judge that good or bad..for you

your either living your true good/value
or judging others sinner..and CHOSING your own sin

its you
that chose the fruits..of your life's journey

the laws of man
or not laws of spirit

the spirit realm is far abouve..that of mere man
the small minded rules
and coven-ants
of me/n

you live
your own values
to your own values be true

do you seek with passion
to love thy neighbour

or seek sin and fault
so you can declare him most foul

deserving of eternal war
deserving only of humiiations
biased hates...hasty judgments..ongoing lies..perpetual fear

bah
your own guilts have made you fail to hear

god loves a repentant sinner
feel the god within you

see the good [god]..within others
for we are all but neighbours/sisters and brothers

one father
one good who gave all living
their life...

what you chose to do with that...

well that
was clearly
*your own choice