we think of value
what is the 'value' we express in war

kill the enemy
[even if they be xtian the same as you]

where lies the rule to kill the infidel
in the words love thy neighbour

where is the value in adoring a man..[born of woman]
in the rule put none before god;..spirit..
never made flesh..never made man

yet sustaining the lives of all men..[and woe-men]

where the christ huh-man..adoration blasphemes
the most holy messenger..the worst..is in making him the judge

[jesus didnt judge anyone..when man..
why should he now judge 'man'..when he is now new-man..in spirit

[at one with god..not as god..
but a light sun of good[god]

see the divided house of the father
[where is the value in this]..
men will at some time realise the oneness of the..*one good [god]

we have murder
and love of murder
[to wit love of war]..those who make war are far from god..
far from good]..yet yesterday i heard many speaking of the good mateship

how by putting the dead youth..on a sacred pedi-stal
govts sending their children..to die are pedophile
an old ozzie value..and religious value

we have a day of drunken debauchery
in memory of lads too young to even have had their first drink

realise the contradiction
that sees this adoration[death cult]..
the next day after the christ has risen..

how much more bleeding obvious is this day of death..
memoralised more than the christs return[non death]
less than hours after his return to the un-dead

i have meant to add..the anzac's show
is a propaganda value

not a true blue ozzie value
let alone an xtian...lol...'value'
to wit valueing the rights of your fellow man

noting the army has sworn alliegance to the queen/gov general
not to the pm..or to the people..or to govt let alone oz or peace

we have just lived through a horrible reality
fought..and lost many wars..[on foreign shores..
as well as genocide patricide matricide pedicide
upon these blood red lands...

lol 'golden sands' is the joke..
its blood shed red

we live in a
war value based reality

Philo,

I doubt that Squeers could be construed as being a "shallow thinker" - but I'm sure he'll get back to you on that one.

Let's face it, patriotism is a double-edged virtue, depending on the cause upon which it is invoked.

Aldous Huxley said:
"One of the great attractions of patriotism - it fulfills our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat. Bully and cheat, what's more, with a feeling that we're profoundly virtuous."

When you think about it, all a man needs to excuse any number of bigoted thoughts and actions is the psychological construct that he is indeed following some virtuous cause or creed.

the skill of kill
or be killed

where govts value[skill]
in skilling...instilling..not killing

recall the only violence..done by the christ
was upon the money-changers..charging egsorbitant intrest charges
exploitring the fathers children..[and who is not a child of the father

yet this ursury
for the money chanmgers
is an ozzie value..compounding intrest..compounding guilt

that they [we do to the least]
we do to him..[the father sustaining
even the least their lives]..

none live by by his will alone
[his supreeme good gift..to every living 'being']
life glories good [god the life giver sustainer]
death demeans good[god]

why glory in the gory
is the gore glory due
[cast pearl before swine]

nationalism
a xtian value?

oh lord
ye of the flesh
you been decieved

yes indeed nationalism
is the last refuge of the scoundral
just as much as religeon..[as its become]..[its fruits
is a pox upon the honest man

values
what values

love god
love neighbour
are the only true values

where the value
[xtian value...lol

with/in..empoverish the poor
declare a new drug war
tax the smokers
dont tax the gam,blers drinkers and perverts

what golden rule allows govt
to declare unholy wars upon its own people
what holy law says send your kids to die in war

yeah oz values
their xtian for sure

Which patriotisms are you conflating Philo?

The one that motivates young honest men to fight and die because "wiser heads" assure them it is right? That it *will* help protect their loved ones from the aggressor?

Or the one that callously flag-waves, gets the signatures, and casually wastes those lives because their own is not among them?

The patriotism that decides to assault at huge cost in lives or the sort loyal enough to try when ordered?

Lest we forget,

Real patriotism is all too easily subverted and wasted by those willing to claim it to motivate others.

For example, I suggest that the conscripts sent to Vietnam were "patriots", and the word doesn't apply to those who sent them, who debased the term by using it a lot.

Rusty

If its CEO is anything to go by, the Australian Christian Lobby is the source of good Oz values like fear and loathing of gays and Muslims. I'd always thought Twitter was a waste of technology until yesterday, but now I think that Christians of Jim Wallace's ilk should use it often.

It's good to see what their real values are.

Squeers,

Believe it or not I think your post yesterday confirmed rather than denied my philosophy. I speak of an ideal, you retort with an exposition of the human frailties man is err to, you place religion within the confines of churches and doctrines and occasional token observance, mine is a state of mind and being.

So let's forget about religion and doctrine which continues to be the cause of (or excuse for) the exploitation of the weak and the disillusionment of the gullible. To observe only that which is right, without fear or favour, is all and is everything. All the excuses, all the resorting to history for "patriotism" - whether it be tribal or cultural or religious - is to be forever looking back, forever prejudiced, forever blind to possibilities to harmony to true freedom, to peace.

Sure it's a big ask, to live and let live, to give up the "right" to "get away with" all manner of transgressions, big and small, to remain true to what is right. And where is the gospel of what is right and what is evil? I think most of us have a fair idea - given a reasonable chance, and not filled with all manner of propaganda. We in Oz generally exemplify a reasonable portion of what is right, but we are far from perfect, yet. We, as others, can choose to learn from history to do better and to avoid the mistakes which have led to chaos and inhumanity. Surely it is time.

No more hiding behind the subterfuge of denial or of "cause" or of "right" (which translates as "because I can"). Should I kill those who would kill me? Sure. But should I try to understand why, to find another solution first? You bet!

Peace and harmony can only come from trust, and trust only from a common understanding of what to expect from each other - without waiver. If we don't strive to improve ourselves and our understanding then we fail ourselves and the future.