Paul:”The attempt to broaden the definition of abuse to include smacking is an ideological campaign orchestrated by the politically correct.”

Could just be the people who profit from being able to accuse more parents’s of abuse.

This would be court employees and Out of Home Care service providers and the entire industry (counselors, access supervisors etc) that is supported and will benefit further from the broadening of the definitions.

I agree Divine, it's a whole other thread. Far as I know Liberals initially had a lot to do with supporting children's rights then lost interest. Wonder what plans they have now.

“The attempt to broaden the definition of abuse to include smacking is an ideological campaign orchestrated by the politically correct.”

You nailed it Paul. And as I wrote, expect the left to become more desperate. These claims of sexual abuse are not going to win them any support. It is just hysterical.

"It's easy to see why you could confuse disciplining a child with sexual assault." - PaulL

OK, tell us which one this is:

Cincinnati Enquirer, January 17, 2003

MASON - A judge on Thursday acquitted a middle-aged psychologist of an assault charge for pulling down a 14-year-old girl's pants and spanking her hard enough to cause bruises.

The prosecutor and children's advocates expressed surprise at the decision in a corporal punishment case that raised questions about how far a nonparent can go in disciplining another person's child.

Gary Freudenthal, 49, of Blue Ash, testified Thursday that he thought he had permission from previous conversations with the girl's grandmother - her legal guardian - to discipline the child, who was a friend of his daughter.

On Aug. 31, Mr. Freudenthal, a single father, said he was upset because the girl was picked up by police the night before on drug and curfew violations when she was supposed to be spending the night at his house after attending a football game with his daughter.

So, he went to the grandmother's Mason home about 9:30 a.m.walked into the girl's bedroom after asking the grandmother where she was, took the girl out of bed, placed her over his knee and spanked her.

When the girl laughed, Mr. Freudenthal said he pulled her bikini bottoms down and administered another spanking. A police officer testified that the spanking caused bruising on the girls' upper legs and buttocks.

"I spanked her hard enough so she could feel it ... so it would sting, so she wouldn't be able to sit down, so she would remember it," Mr. Freudenthal testified. "She was so out of control." . . .

BplyrstszZ

No You tell us? Do you think breaking into someoneones home and pulling down the pants of a teenage girl and procede to put your hand on her naked buttocks, the same thing as giving your OWN four year old a smack on the bum (pants up) when she's having a tantrum in a busy carpark?

Because if it is, there's something really wrong with you.

Your absurd conflation of the parental right to discipline their own child with the disturbing actions described above reveals your extremist position. Not only have you failed miserably in your point, that smacking and abuse are difficult to tell apart, you have in fact made my case, that they are OBVIOUSLY not.

Paul:”Not only have you failed miserably in your point, that smacking and abuse are difficult to tell apart, you have in fact made my case, that they are OBVIOUSLY not.”

True that, they’ve definitely let the side down.

If I was in a debate team I would probably start with this:
Do we define abuse by the feelings of the perpetrator or the victim? A child not knowing whether the adult got any kind of pleasure (sexual or otherwise) would still have been abused. If it is a case of definition in relation to how the person carrying out the abuse feels then a smacking parent is probably all clear and good to go as they usually have convinced themselves it is for the good of the child.

I should repeat: I don’t consider a smack on the bum by a parent abuse. I understand it hurts you more than it hurts them.

Jewely,

I agree that you don't smack a child because they've made you angry. Thats the wrong reason. You smack a child because they've crossed a clear and well defined line in terms of their behaviour, and other punishments would be innefective.

But I should say that smacking doesn't hurt me more than it hurts them. When I have to do it, I take no pleasure in it, but not do I anguish over the decision either. Although, when I was getting ino my early teens I remeber my mum hurting herself more than she hurt me when she tried to give me whack for some offensive comment or other.

Everyone knows whether their own parents abused them or not. For me, abuse is underserved and unexpected punishment. I always knew when I got a whack that I crossed the line. Those whose parents beat them because they were drunk or angry or depressed would be easily caught out today where we have no tolerance for behaviour.

On the other hand, expecting parents to stand idly by whilst an 8 year old son tells the mother to "get f@cked" is not apprporiate either.

Children need room to make mistakes. Its a part of growing up and making space for your own personality that drives children to push their boundaries. Corporal punishment is an effective way to make CRYSTAL clear where the line is drawn, and then quickly move on. The other alternatives all require some kind of emotional blackmail or long term deprivation to be effective.

In correcting our once lax attitude to child abuse, we have gone too far the other way. This is always the way when the debate is led by the ideologically pure. Leading from their theoretically develloped understanding.

I have no confidence whatsooever, that my childs generation will turn out to be better people, because they weren't smacked, In fact I fear the reverse may be true. I certainly know I will be lucky to ever be as selfless and giving as my parents were. Despite the fact that they smacked more than I do.