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The Forum > Article Comments > So, pro-spanking parents aren’t Nazis? > Comments

So, pro-spanking parents aren’t Nazis? : Comments

By Ben-Peter Terpstra, published 13/4/2011

The evidence supports corporal punishment as a viable and valuable method of discipline.

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Divine_msn,

Let me rephrase the question slightly: Would you agree that having her buttocks forcibly exposed and touched by this man was likely very humiliating *in and of itself*? Maybe even degrading?

blwpyrtv - your apparent fascination with this wild nubile young miss and her bare buttocks being *touched* is beginning to alarm me. Are you a closet fetishist? If so I'm glad your tastes run to the post-pubescent female .... (I'd advise paying for the services of a professional if seeking "hands on" satisfaction though and stick to the over 18s)

This is a discussion about the validity of using reasonable corporal punishment to discipline young children. Nothing to do with people spanking other peoples children or young adults.

If you are trying to suggest that parental smacking or spanking has sexual overtones which leaves children open to predatory adults with spanky paedo inclinations, which is the only connection I am making from what are pretty irrelevant contributions to this debate, then you need some HELP.

I repeat: THIS IS A DISCUSSION ABOUT PARENTS USING CORPORAL PUNISHMENT AS A DISCIPLINARY TOOL. I am happy to respond to or defend any statements relating to the SUBJECT. All further digression will be ignored.
Posted by divine_msn, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 11:35:06 AM
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Dude, I'm not the one who was talking about how this girl "has probably had her knickers (willingly) pulled down a few times before." How's that for savory?

If you think I find these arguments and examples a turn-on, fine . . . it doesn't change the fact that you either lack the empathy to see how being forcibly stripped would make the punishment a lot more humiliating, if not degrading, for a 14-year-old or refuse to acknowledge it. (Though you are at least willing to call Freudenthal's actions physical assault, which can't be said for the judge.)

At the same time, you seem to be OK with DiPalma and Ellis being labeled sex offenders (despite the absence of fondling, penetration, etc.), due to their "orchestrated, manipulative ritualistic and secretive manner." That's not really clear in Ellis' case. We also don't know how bad his victim might have been behaving leading up to the spanking. Especially given that he choked her brother for being disobedient, why would you automatically chalk up the spankings to sexual motive, as opposed to a poorly controlled temper?

And the fact that DiPalma was covert in spanking his student only indicates that he knew he could get in trouble for doing it. It doesn't follow his motives were necessarily sexual. (Conversely, if he'd spanked him in the presence of witnesses, that would not have precluded sexual assault charges.) One could suppose that he simply has a mean streak and therefore created an opportunity to inflict pain on a defenseless child, who probably didn’t know that it was a crime for the teacher to spank him. An adult bully, basically, who chooses easy victims to pick on. And how implausible is it that DiPalma sincerely thought the boy was a brat who needed a good ass-whipping, like so many kids these days? (I don't know how else to account for the deadlocked jury.)

I pointed to the rock band incident to show that sexual assault in the form of spanking doesn't always fit the stereotype you were invoking (calculated, not spontaneous, secretive, etc.)
Posted by blwpyrtv, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 3:39:54 PM
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As for what these cases have to do with parental spanking, it's like I explained upthread (p. 11). Kids who are spanked at home are apt to be easier prey for non-parental authorities who may have an M.O. like DiPalma's.

So with all this in mind, here are three questions I would encourage spanking parents to ask themselves:

1) Would your child ever accept a spanking from an adult other than you or your spouse?

2) Have you told your child in no uncertain terms that it’s never OK for another adult besides Mom or Dad to spank him or her—no matter how badly he or she has misbehaved?

3) Have you warned your child that some adults may have bad reasons for wanting to spank him or her?
Posted by blwpyrtv, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 3:48:58 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5jlrxcpkI&NR=1

Must watch for non-smacking parents.

Umm... blw interesting questions cause you get those people that think they should smack their kids and teachers should be allowed to as well.

Don't know if the majority of smacking parents feel like that.
Posted by Jewely, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 6:23:37 PM
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In reply to Jewely - my offspring, at least the eldest, attended State School at a time when corporal punishment was still an option for male students. Did he ever recieve it? No, but if his behaviour had warranted, it would not have fazed either of his parents. By the time the youngest son began, the cane had been banned. Kids range in age 27 - 32.

All went on to a private High School where corporal punishment was still an option but the worse penalty ever accrued was a single afternoon detention (daughter).

It's possible, by my way of thinking, that our children were fortunate to have 2 parents in a loving supportive home where values were lived as well as taught, with firm but fair discipline so outside the home their behaviour was also generally good.

However, I am 99.9% confident that our children, from an early age, knew their Mum or Dad might give them a smack or even Grandma if she was pushed but for others to do so would be inappropriate. Two 'survival skills' that our kids were taught very early were a) how to swim (we lived near watercourses) and b)self defense.
To explain the latter, their maternal grandmother at age 11 had been the victim of attempted abduction. Resisting vigorously she managed to escape. She insisted her kids and grandkids learn how best to repel an attacker. (We are waiting for her, now aged 82, to start on her great-grandies lol) Techniques are not for playground scuffles but in emergency, no holds are barred. I very much doubt our children, particularly the daughter who had a strong tendency towards tit-for-tat, would ever have 'accepted' being 'spanked' or otherwise physically chastised by an outsider.

So I don't get that theory either.

If a child was constantly BEATEN - as in abused, and knew nothing else (therefore that treatment is the childs 'normality') there might well be tendency to accept abuse from others outside the home circle but this is the extreme and once again outside the BOUNDS OF REASONABLE CORPORAL DISCIPLINE
Posted by divine_msn, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 8:25:25 PM
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Corporal Punishment disappeared while I was at school – before it did it was generally only the boys I remember it being used on. I remember my teacher (when I was about 8 years old) crying when the vice principal caned two of the boys out of our class. Bit of a shock for me back then seeing an adult cry over kids being hurt. Never occurred to me that anyone in the grown up world cared.

“If a child was constantly BEATEN - as in abused, and knew nothing else (therefore that treatment is the childs 'normality') there might well be tendency to accept abuse from others outside the home circle but this is the extreme and once again outside the BOUNDS OF REASONABLE CORPORAL DISCIPLINE.”

Yeah I wonder if the boundaries are clear when they are little kids if they come from a home that smacks if they understand who exactly is allowed to smack them. Given small children feel it is always their own fault when an adult hurts them. Usually with the abusive adults the child being good or bad doesn’t seem to matter. I think back then my vice principal caned two boys in complete opposition to what our teacher thought was appropriate but he was the boss.

And within a family we forget there are also the grandparents, aunts, uncles who are generally allowed to smack the children of smackers. I’ve had parents drop children off to be babysat and have told me to smack them if they are naughty which worried me a hell of a lot. Okay now I am starting to think out loud…. lost my point completely.
Posted by Jewely, Thursday, 21 April 2011 7:55:38 AM
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