Yes, all we can go on is what is written in the letter. From that we base our discussion.

I wish the letter was more tolerant towards religion. It doesn’t lack for sweeping statements, such as the world being fraught with religious inspired conflict, without noting the times of religious inspired peace or the non-religious inspired conflict; and for there now being no escape from raw, religious ambition in public schools.

It is difficult to find much of substance here against the schools’ chaplaincy program other than that the ASL doesn’t like Christianity.

I don’t believe the Christians are getting a special deal not available to others. It has been judged that the chaplaincy program offers a positive contribution to schools, and it finds support from parents and school communities. I don’t see evidence in this letter of the imposition of beliefs on students.

If the program is breaking rules, or skipping standards, or using untrained people, then those are issues that ought to be addressed. If the ASL wants to cut the program simply because the people running it are Christians, then that is a prejudice not in line with the ideals of secularism.

Given that "secular" is what you get when no particular religion runs the government, it follows that secular is the background, the baseline if you will, of agreed essentials.

There is likely a strong common law argument there.

Non-essentials, like any particular religion do not enjoy the same mandate.

Following this, one can keep eliminating particular religions till none are given consideration, yet much of our culture still exists.

Not so many generations ago, religious leaders and national ones recognised that not only was religion pernicious to good government, but that it was plain that no particular religion should hold the reins.

Even sub-sects of chritianity cannot to this day get along.

*why* are religious leaders no longer behind secularity? Do they lack the courage to acknowledge that *their* sect will not be favoured one? Or the lack more fundamental...do they lack the capacity to see that their religion is "just another one" much like "yet another season of star trek".

Rusty

Good solid thinking Rusty.

I doubt Dan will understand/agree.

Dan... I am all ears/eyes:

"It has been judged that the chaplaincy program offers a positive contribution to schools, and it finds support from parents and school communities"... do post this information, right here, so we can all read it.

A url will do, of course, or the title of the research document, or the DEEWR investigation into its own handiwork.

I think I know what you will post, but let's play a little game.

You show me yours, and I'll show you mine.

I bet they are the same, discredited, self-interested, biased, politically motivated claptrap... off you go and get the info.

While Dan's in research mode, he might like to give us an example or two of the "religious inspired peace" that he referred to.

>>It doesn’t lack for sweeping statements, such as the world being fraught with religious inspired conflict, without noting the times of religious inspired peace<<

But I suspect that it is just a "sweeping statement".

Oh Pericles, you really are a doubter!

Since Jesus was nailed up, there has been 2000 years of Peace between Christians and Jews, for starters.

Why, there was Peace between the numerous Crusades, and the smiting of the Muslim has seen Peace between Christian and Muslim ever since.

The Tibetan Buddhists have made Peace with their Chinese brothers.

Why, Tony Blair, the Great PM and Good Catholic, brought Grace to the Six Counties, and all troubles fell away overnight.

He and St. George brought the Peace Invasion to Iraq, and were very keen to bring Peace to Iran, Nth. Korea, though strangely not Burma and China.

St. Tony is now solving the 'issues' of the invading Arabs forcing their way into the Holiest of all cities in the Universe.

Then there is the Peace brought to Australia's Indigenous peoples, by St. Howard and St. Kevin in their Invasion-of-Peace plans.

Note how the churches are all in there, continuing the Good Work they started years ago with the establishment of the beautiful Mission Stations.

The Peace-on-Drugs, and are you not following the Peace-in-Afghanistan?

Of course, 'the dark side' have had a few Peace attempts too, if you recall their major 9/11 Peace Activity.

Then there is the Vatican's perpetual Peace-on-children actions, for many years an undertaking straight from the Heart of God, delivered in a respectful and prayerful manner, and introducing 'the kiddies' to the evil ways of the world in a considered and loving manner, in a process of Godly inoculation.

Oh yes Pericles, you must open your eyes more.... God moves in such mysterious ways.... to waft Peace over all quarters of His world.

Dan's taking a while with his documents... must be a barrow load of them.

Quelle réaction! Obviously touched a nerve somewhere.

Blue Cross posts twice within hours of my last post and accuses me of being slow to respond. Quelle impatience!

Pericles and Blue Cross,
Sweeping statements are easy to make and easy to find. I’ve made plenty. They are not bad for showing where you stand. They do not constitute evidence within themselves.

This article contains plenty of sweeping statements (some of which I’ve pointed out). It was rather thin on the ground. Why don’t you ask its authors that they support their position with evidence rather than just rhetoric, just like you challenge me?

I know very little of the chaplaincy program. When I said it was a positive initiative with community support, that was supposition based on the idea that they wouldn’t have initiated it otherwise. I know there exists RE and chaplains in some of the schools in my neighbourhood (Melbourne) and I’ve never heard any complaints.

I’ve already said, if there are problems with the program, then they need to be dealt with. However, this article seems to be infuriated with the idea or concept of the program, not its practice.