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The Forum > Article Comments > An open letter to the Prime Minister from Australia’s secular parents > Comments

An open letter to the Prime Minister from Australia’s secular parents : Comments

By The Australian Secular Lobby, published 5/7/2010

There should be a wall of separation between the religious proselytising ambitions of church recruiters and our children.

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Every taxpayer dollar ripped from the public purse wasted on religious recruitment in schools, because people wont go to churches, that's all this really is. Is a dollar taken from infrastructure roads, rail, public schools, hospitals. If and when you or your child ever find yourself s laying in the back of an ambulance bleeding to death trying to find a public hospital bed, think about whether some kid needs to have some imaginary religious cult, taxpayer funded private or public indoctrination or whether that funding should have been used to save your life, because this is what has taken the funding and cost your lives, hundreds of people have died and people are dying every day? That's what we are debating here people, 18 billion dollars have been allocated over the next few years to corporate private religious indoctrination cult schools and chaplins, well what are you going to do about it?
Posted by HFR, Monday, 5 July 2010 11:21:54 AM
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McReal... school chaplains are not allowed to provide counselling under the DEEWR rules of funding... "in case a denominational chaplain was seen as a barrier to counselling".

Besides, the issue is not 'denominational' is it, that accepts that they are all (nearly all) Christian in the first place, the issue is that they are 'religious' and in what really should be a secular public space.

The real problem with public schools is that they are expected to undertake far too much, and far too many activities, with far too little funding and trained staff, and far too little interest from far too many parents, couple with far too much meddling by far too stupid and dangerous a mob of politicians.

These chaplains are 'cheap' but not a solution to anything higher than a few extra votes in marginal seats, and that is only a 'maybe'.

As for being 'out-bred', quite so, but the armies of Christians vs. Muslims that are being built up is not going to be good for us all overall, is it?

Besides, being 'secular' does not mean having to be an atheist does it? Unless you follow the Jensen-Pell-ACL line of course. But it does mean that 'believers' have the capacity to understand that there has to be a gap between church and state, just as atheists do too.

Political stunts that involve using 'religion' as a bait is not a very solid foundation for good social policies, I'd have thought.
Posted by The Blue Cross, Monday, 5 July 2010 11:43:58 AM
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The Secular lobby are to blind to see that the less Christian influence the more bullying, drugs, suicide, perversion, pornography. No doubt they would love ethicist like Singer teaching why bestiality and paedophille is not always wrong. The good news is that most parents are bright enough to see the fruit of secularism with its amoral values. No wonder the multitudes including unbelievers are voting with their feet and making the sacrifices to send their kids to schools with Christian values. Secularist expect the Government to pay for their dogma and lies to be taught. Most people care more about their kids than they do failed secular dogma.
Posted by runner, Monday, 5 July 2010 12:27:54 PM
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Shadyoasis,

Use of the comparative: "Bill is taller than Tom and Tom is taller than Jim. They are all short."

"More benign" does not mean 'benign", although as soon as I hear of some Christian group blowing up a rival church, or a crowded market-place, or burning down girls' schools, or throwing acid in women's faces, I'll change my tune :)

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 5 July 2010 12:56:34 PM
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Runner... "less Christian influence the more bullying, drugs, suicide, perversion, pornography"... ahem, do tell us all where the 'faith' schools are that have none of the above going on amongst the student populations they hold.... never mind the churches.

Anyway, you seem to fail to comprehend the meaning of 'secular' here.

It is not a code word for 'atheism', but an ability to live with others of different views, which I would have thought would be something you might support.

I watched that ABC Compass show with the Hon Michael Kirby, ex High Court judge and clearly a decent person.

Clearly also a Christian, and clearly a tolerant person, and clearly 'secular' in his outlook.

His published speeches to a couple of schools would indicate he clearly understands the benefit of having secular public schools.

http://www.michaelkirby.com.au/images/stories/speeches/2000s/2009+/2418.Speech_-_Sydney_Grammar_Speech_Day_2009.pdf

http://www.michaelkirby.com.au/images/stories/speeches/2000s/2009+/2417.Speech_-_Melbourne_High_School_Speech_Night_2009.pdf

If I were a betting man, I'd wager that Kirby is more of a Christian than all those noisy 'Christians' in NSW trying to prevent the St. James Ethics course from continuing, for instance, with far more Christian compassion than Pell, Wallace, Jensen, Houston and Rudd & Abbott put together.

Now, what is it that you really object to with secular public schools, given that there are faith schools by the hundredweight throughout Australia for those too scared to live in the real-world?
Posted by The Blue Cross, Monday, 5 July 2010 1:01:31 PM
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Runner stated; The Secular lobby are too blind to see that the less Christian influence the more bullying, drugs, suicide, perversion, pornography.
How is it that the religion of priests does not prevent their paedophilia?
You also keep accusing Peter Singer of supporting criminal sexual activities. I would back his moral outlook against the outlook of and religious indoctrinator who can see nothing wrong with inhibiting a child's ability to learn to think clearly.

For everyone's benefit I quote again the conclusion to Singer's book "How are we to live."
“Anyone can become part of the critical mass that offers us a chance to improve the world… and take up new causes and find your goals changing. You will not be bored, or lack fulfilment in your life. Most of important of all, you will know that you have not lived and died for nothing, because you will have become part of the great tradition of those who have responded to the amount of pain and suffering in the universe by trying to make the world a better place.”
Posted by Foyle, Monday, 5 July 2010 1:09:24 PM
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