The Forum > General Discussion > what is there to negotiate?
what is there to negotiate?
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Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 2 March 2022 8:04:34 PM
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while mine is to fight for freedom.
Yuyutsu, Freedom from to & for what ? Selfishness & other stupidity can never be part of freedom & I trust you realise that ! Posted by individual, Thursday, 3 March 2022 12:12:48 PM
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Dear davidf,
You ask what is there to negotiate. Reasonably simple I would have thought. Ukrainians declare to the world they will remain steadfastly neutral and not promise never to join NATO but only when the last Russian soldier has left its territory. This was Chomsky's take 6 years ago. http://youtu.be/5Ni3j1mhU5M?t=217 Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 3 March 2022 2:06:36 PM
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Dear Steele Redux,
The ideal goal is general and complete disarmament. How do we get there? We are in the midst of a war between Ukraine and Russia. The Russians (Putin) contend that Ukraine is naturally a fellow nation with its Slavic companions, Russia and Belarus. Ukraine is fighting against a Russian invasion. It seems reasonable to me for Ukraine not to be part of NATO as Ukraine's membership in NATO would mean encirclement of Russia to a greater degree than exists now. It is reasonable in a world at peace for there to be no military alliances, and all conflicts to be settled by negotiations through the United Nations. That would mean a UN with no nation having a veto power to prevent matters being negotiated. How do we get there? How do we eliminate war as an instrument of national policy? War remains the ultimate settlement of national disputes and a cause of human suffering. If the United Nations became the ultimate instrument for dispute settlement what would prevent the UN from becoming a tyranny. Perhaps the only way to eliminate war and the destruction of the environment is to eliminate humanity. Ant hills wage war on other ant hills, but, unlike human wars, their effects are local and transitory. The continued existence of humanity means a world in conflict and an accelerated extinction of other species. To make a better world get rid of us. Posted by david f, Thursday, 3 March 2022 3:58:12 PM
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From reports from Ukraine the Russiam military are carpet boming civillian homes and capturing women and children and having them walk in front of tanks as human shields. this is not a war this is genocide, women who refuse are shot on the spot.
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 3 March 2022 4:39:35 PM
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Dear Josephus,
What is the source of those reports of Russian atrocities you cite? In war it is said the first casualty is truth, and I doubt if this war is an exception. Posted by david f, Thursday, 3 March 2022 5:03:17 PM
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I understand - so your view is that the Israelites should have never left Egypt and were better off to remain there as slaves to Pharaoh, also having all their male-babies drowned in the Nile.
Indeed, some Israelites agreed with you, who valued the taste of garlic more than the taste of freedom:
"Meanwhile, the rabble among them had a strong craving for other food, and again the Israelites wept and said, "Who will feed us meat?
We remember the fish we ate freely in Egypt, along with the cucumbers, melons, leeks, onions, and garlic." [Numbers 11:4-5]
I cannot prove you wrong, given that your preference is to be a slave - that's your choice while mine is to fight for freedom.