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The Forum > General Discussion > What is an Australian

What is an Australian

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SBS is promoting a project by a young child of "What is an Australian". The project identifies several people; and one conclusion is"We all have our opinions" by a Hindu; another is a first Nations elder who encourages us to listen. I do not feel it has identified the real character of Australia.
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 13 January 2022 8:42:50 AM
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Josephus,

So what in your opinion is the "real" character
of Australia?
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 13 January 2022 9:31:32 AM
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Australia is based in a culture of aspiration to achieve in personal life, sport, and work. We have developed a society that has principles of goodwill to all and encouragement of the trier. Our private lives are about spending time with family and sharing with friends. We enjoy our sports and have our sporting heros whom we worship. We are disciplined in our work to do the best we know how, which makes our products among the best in the World.

We do not accomodate people who deliberately like to be different, snobbish, or continually negative.
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 13 January 2022 9:55:43 AM
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A 10-lettered word.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 13 January 2022 10:33:36 AM
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Putting aside emotivism, an Australian is one who has Australian CITIZENSHIP. People without citizenship - permanent residents, children born to non-citizens, people on various visas etc - are not Australians. Unlike it is in the US, children born here are not automatically Australian unless at least one of their parents is a citizen.

I wouldn’t presume to know what the Australian ethos or spirit is. It is certainly not what it was prior to the 1960's, when most things we stood for went down the toilet. What we have now is a bunch of leftists, still banging away and trying to destroy the little that is left of what it once meant to be an Australian. With nauseating regularity, Australia Day and the monarchical/Westminster gets a thrashing from the culture warriors, as does our history and the heroism of people during that history that made Australia what it was until the last century. Only the bad stuff is remembered and harped on. Race and colour is the narrative of the loud-mouthed Left these days. Australia is rooted; and it will get worse while we have the same value-free, self-serving politicians who at least 80% of Australians, whatever their race, culture or colour, are not willing to stand up to. They are willing to let democracy go the same way that everything else has.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 13 January 2022 11:20:18 AM
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ttbn,
Agree, an Australian is a Citizen of Australia and new citizens pledge their loyalty to Australia, the political entity and thus to the Queen of Australia and thus therefore owe allegiance to her as do native born Australians.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 13 January 2022 11:35:58 AM
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Yes an Australian is an Australian citizen but
it is not just one thing, it's a great many things
and it's as varied as its landscape. Today our
identity is made up of many cultures from the city
to the bush, across towns, suburbs, and streets.
Understanding our differences and celebrating our
shared values help us achieve social cohesion.
It is our shared history of what has happened over
time and how we choose to confront and acknowledge
the past and the present and strive to do better.

"We are one and we are many and from all the lands
on earth we come. We sing with one voice ..."
I am, You are, We are Australian..."
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 13 January 2022 12:32:33 PM
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Is Mise,

Yes. I think some of the republicans think that because someone wasn't born here, is a person of colour, and so on, that they want a republic. Well, they came here by choice knowing how things are, many from republics. They also knew that most people here are white, with Anglo/Saxon/European culture. Some of these people who are always banging on about the racism of the majority culture are insulting the very people they think they are siding with. Most Australians keep their culture for family and friends, while still mucking in with the diverse population. I know I do. I'm a third generation Australian of Celtic/Anglo/Saxon background in that order, but I don't dwell on it because I'm Australian. I cannot fathom why anyone similar - including descendants of the First Fleet, or someone whose forebears came from Nigeria - would feel differently about themselves.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 13 January 2022 12:43:02 PM
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Those who come here uninvited & then demand the citizens of this Nation bow to their demands are not Australian even after having gained residency & even citizenship !
Those who are so ashamed of their women that they have to cover themselves are not & never will be Australian !
Posted by individual, Thursday, 13 January 2022 1:17:23 PM
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Individual,
Muslims are not ashamed of their women far from it!!
I am fortunate in having Muslim friends in India who welcome me into their homes and I see the women face to face and the great majority of the women are truly beautiful, my Muslim mate, of Army days, had four beautiful wives ( now sadly only three)..
They will probably out live him as he’s now in his late eighties but still remarkably fit and healthy; probably from living a temperate life and abstaining (usually) from grog.

Foxy,
None the less, despite background, becoming an Australian citizen requires swearing allegiance to Australia and thus its Monarch.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 13 January 2022 2:49:37 PM
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Is Mise,

Allegiance was sworn to Australia and her people
NOT the monarch.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 13 January 2022 2:57:13 PM
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There are two Citizenship pledges:

Pledge 1:

From this time forward under God
I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people
Whose democratic beliefs I share
Whose rights and liberties I respect
And whose laws I will uphold and obey.

Pledge 2:

From this day forward
I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people
Whose democratic beliefs I share
Whose rights and liberties I respect
And whose laws I will uphold and obey.

You can choose out of the 2 versions of the pledge.
One mentions God and the other does not.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 13 January 2022 3:15:02 PM
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"SBS is promoting a project by a young child of "What is an Australian"."

Well the SBS is promoting lots of things it seems. Primarily they're promoting the SBS.

Methinks an election and questions of funding might be approaching.
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 13 January 2022 4:08:16 PM
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is Mise,
I'm fully aware of what you're saying. I have very close Muslim friends from Asia & I wasn't referring to Asian or Indian Muslims or any decent Muslims.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 13 January 2022 5:38:26 PM
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Individual,
Fair enough.

Foxy,
The Australia mentioned in the Citizenship Ceremony is Australia the Nation, which is a Constitutional Monarchy and whose Head of State is Elizabeth, Queen of Australia, to whom we all owe allegiance it is not the landmass called Australia.
Thus all who seek to subvert the Constitution are traitors
Particularly republican espousing politicians who perjure themselves to get a salary.
When are the republican politicians going to have the guts to refuse to commit perjury and refuse to swear allegiance and thus forego the money?
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 13 January 2022 8:46:29 PM
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The true dinky-di Australian, is a little politician with bushy eyebrows, with thick rimmed glasses, and wearing green and gold trackie-dacks. He punches the air whilst exclaiming, "YOU BEAUTY". You can't get more Aussie than than.

Thanks Foxy, spot on again.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 14 January 2022 6:51:24 AM
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I'm looking for volunteers, I'm sure the right, very right, kinda blokes are on the forum, Come Aussie Day I want to get a bunch together on Bondi Beach, wearing budgie smugglers, patriotic Aussies thongs, hot sand you know, drapped in a made in China Aussie flag beach towels, to protect our modesty. There we shall deliver stirring verses of "Click Goes The Shears" to the bemusement of young Pommy backpackers. The is all inclusive, but if your not Anglo male over 70, do not apply.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 14 January 2022 7:12:11 AM
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Watched "Mates on a Mission" last night, their larican character and good sportmanship is typical Australian.

Mates on a Mission
Travel series with Shane Jacobson, Todd McKenney, Brian ‘BT’ Taylor & Kris Smith is dusted off and screened.

ttp://tvtonight.com.au/2022/01/airdate-mates-on-a-mission.htm

Australia Day is coming up and the village where I live is having a game of seniors Cricket, [no running] and a lamb chop BBQ and salad lunch. australians live in a free society free of Government and Police oppression - unless you live in Victoria where they even arrest litte old ladies sitting alone in the park.
Posted by Josephus, Friday, 14 January 2022 7:49:07 AM
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Sounds good Jose' a community get together, a picnic cricket match a great idea. What have you got for the kids under 70? btw how do you score runs? How come lamb has now become the meat of choice for Aussie day? Clever marketing, what about the snags?
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 14 January 2022 8:03:50 AM
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Hi Paul,

Your barbeque idea sounds great.

A get together on Australia Day - is - well so Australian.
However in Victoria - yep. we get together in our gorgeous
parks but food-wise - its a feast of many varieties.
From German snitzels, Aussie prawns, Russian salads,
potato salads, barbeque ribs, pork, lamb of course, chicken,
you name it. My mouth is watering already. And as for music?
It can be heard for miles.
So good for the soul - even the kids dance - OOpa!

Josephus,

The little old ladies in Victoria don't sit around in parks.
They volunteer in teaching English at the U3A, in schools,
aged-care facilities, and as drivers for the elderly as needed
to name just a few things. You need to get out more.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 14 January 2022 9:17:16 AM
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From German snitzels, Aussie prawns, Russian salads,
potato salads, barbeque ribs, pork, lamb of course, chicken,
you name it. My mouth is watering already. And as for music?
Foxy,
The anti Australia Day crowd can bring Witchetty Grubs & Bang Sticks along with the SBS/ABC Hypocrisy Team.
Posted by individual, Friday, 14 January 2022 9:31:11 AM
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individual,

This is Australia - whatever rocks your boat.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 14 January 2022 9:33:22 AM
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Foxy,
Like it or not the Queen is part of Australia and all your petty denying of the fact won’t make it go away.

Have you no thoughts on perjuring republican politicians who lie for money?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 14 January 2022 11:34:38 AM
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Foxy,
This type of behaviour is un-Australian as it violates personal freedoms.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/dramatic-arrest-footage-shows-police-surrounding-elderly-women-sitting-on-park-bench/news-story/c06a48699bf035b62408708a1f98dcb1

http://wearechange.org/police-surround-and-arrest-two-elderly-women-resting-on-park-bench/
Posted by Josephus, Friday, 14 January 2022 12:20:32 PM
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Is Mise,

The fact that our head of state is currently a
foreign monarch is a fact that is not being
disputed. However as far as politicians are concerned?
They have a choice as to who they swear their allegiance
to. Some have chosen to swear to Australia and her people
rather than to a foreign monarch. And the citizenship
pledge does not require allegiance to a foreign monarch.

In time, I am sure that eventually all this will be
irrelevant. We shall become a Republic sooner or later.
As far as I am concerned - I have nothing
against the British monarch. I simply would prefer our
own head of state.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 14 January 2022 12:21:01 PM
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We are swearing allegiance to a system of Government - The Westminster Systen and it is represented by a person - The Queen of Australia.
Posted by Josephus, Friday, 14 January 2022 12:25:41 PM
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Josephus,

No. The people who choose to swear the alternative
allegiance swear to Australia and her people not the
monarch. The system of government can be updated and
improved. And by the way - we are a Federation.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 14 January 2022 2:51:57 PM
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Josephus,

The Australian parliament has been referred to as the
"Wash-Minister" model. A combination of the US Washington
model and the British Westminster model.

The idea of a government elected by the people and
accountable to parliament (responsible government) is a
sign of a British contribution. The influence of the
US system can be seen in the overall Australian Federation,
particularly independently governed states working together
under a central federal government structure.

The Australian Senate draws heavily on the US model of the
Senate.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 14 January 2022 3:26:22 PM
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Foxy
Does the Australia to which people swgear include the Parliament of Australia?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 14 January 2022 3:26:55 PM
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Is Mise,

Take an intelligent guess.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 14 January 2022 3:58:43 PM
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Foxy
Well, my guess is that new citizens and the rest owe allegiance to the Australian Parliament as it is the governing body.
Do you agree or what are your thoughts on the matter?
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 14 January 2022 9:00:03 PM
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Hmmm, too many knock Australia's historical connections to the UK and
Ireland.

"The fact that our head of state is currently a
foreign monarch is a fact that is not being
disputed."

That is a bit rude, it was the people from those Isles that made this
place, and others since though it was so good they packed up and went
all around the world to take part, not to rebuild what they left.
The Queen is hardly a foreigner.
When I have been in the UK, I have not been treated like a Frenchman
or whatever, but the same as a local. I worked for some short time
with a group of others and we understood the same jokes etc except about cricket !
When there I found the place where my Great Grandfather was born in Bath.
They are not strangers but cousins.
Posted by Bazz, Friday, 14 January 2022 9:05:00 PM
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It is arguable that Elizabeth II is an Australian as she is Queen of Australia.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 14 January 2022 9:11:08 PM
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Reading some of the comments I can see that the Monarch is not the problem, the problem are those Australians who have no brains ! I just hope that those with brains will eventually gain the upper hand again.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 15 January 2022 6:26:06 AM
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Gentlemen,

The facts are that in the citizenship pledge
people state quite clearly:

I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people
Whose democratic beliefs I share
Whose rights and liberties I respect
And whose laws I will uphold and obey.

It can't be any clearer.

As for being "rude" or "petty" in stating that we don't
currently have an Australian as head of state but a
British woman who happens to have the title of "Queen
of Australia" does not make her Australian. And her
first allegiance is to the UK not Australia.

This does not make anyone anti-British. It makes them
pro-Australian!

And Bazz - I'm glad that you were treated so well by the
locals. However, you still have to have a proper visa
just like any one else to get into the UK and you
still have to stand in line - the same as anybody else
despite the fact that you think we are "cousins."
We travel on Australian passports, not British ones.

The British connection to this country has been well
and truly acknowledged - and no one is denying that.
It is time however that we as Australians decide what
kind of society we want to live in. And that only Australians
can decide for themselves. With which by the way - the Queen
agrees.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 15 January 2022 9:28:11 AM
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It should be obvious to all that the Queen's
reign is coming to an end. She's 95 years old.
She lost her husband last year. Her son Andrew
is embroiled in a scandal. Her grandson has
moved overseas - changes lie ahead. This is a
good opportunity for us to reflect and decide
what we want to do. An election is just around
the corner - and we have an opportunity in
front of us. What we do with it is up to us.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 15 January 2022 10:21:37 AM
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Foxy, to swear allegiance to Australia is a nonsense - What are you aligning yourself with. "The people of Australia" is an open slather to adopt whatever values you find other Australians like. It is a nebelous idea with no single person to follow.

Allegiance is meant to be given to a set of values upheld by a person, and we identify that person in giving allegiance. Give us the person Australia. Is it the Chief Justice or the Head of the Defence forces, an Imman or some aboriginal elder? We want to know what their values and agenda are.
Posted by Josephus, Saturday, 15 January 2022 11:37:36 AM
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With all this talk about being partially & fully vaccinated, & then boosted, lets apply that to the question.

Looked at in that way, only a person born in Oz can really be an Australian, & only one born to parents born here can be a "boosted" Ozzie.

All others, no matter what bit of paper they have to wave about will ever be a "boosted" Ozzie, & only those at least schooled can ever be a true Ozzie. Anyone holding double citizenship, may be a citizen, but will never be an Ozzie.

I believe it is disgusting that any Johny come lately should presume to have a right to try to change our form of government, & only second generation should ever be entitled to vote on any constitutional matter.
Posted by Hasbeen, Saturday, 15 January 2022 11:45:03 AM
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Hasbeen,

It what's in your heart that matters not how long you've been
in a country. The biggest traitors as history has shown
have been natives of countries in which they've lived for
generations.

True citizens and patriots are those whose hearts are filled
with love, devotion, and a sense of attachment to a homeland
or a country and an alliance with other citizens who share
the same sentiments to create a feeling of oneness. And as
I said - that comes from within you.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 15 January 2022 12:20:38 PM
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Josephus,

You said - "to swear allegiance to Australia is a
nonsense." And you asked - "What are you aligning
yourself with?"

People are expressing their loyalty to a country and
her people "whose democratic beliefs they share, whose
rights and liberties they respect and shoe laws they will
uphold and obey." that is their pledge.

From your post we can take it that you think this is
nonsense. Which probably means that you are not an
Australian citizen.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 15 January 2022 12:27:40 PM
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Josephus,

And if you don't align yourself with either the
country or its people - why are you here?
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 15 January 2022 12:29:58 PM
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Foxy,
Do citizens owe any allegiance to the Parliament of Australia?
They certainly owe allegiance to Australia but do they owe allegiance to those whom the Constitution recognises as the Parliament?
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 15 January 2022 1:07:08 PM
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This nebulous idea of allegiance to Australia and its people is a nonsense. We are trying to identify what is Australia and who owns it? The aboriginals claim it is theirs and always will be with their wall paint and smoking ceremony. The British claimed as theirs in 1788 with their culture and the Australian Parliament made up of States claimed it in 1900 and since then Chinese communists have installed 250,000 residents, Islam claims everywhere they tread belongs to Allah. The others just submit and act as if they own a part of it.

With the current unconstitutinal pledge we have opened Australia to diverse loyalties, with many just giving mere assent to a nebulous concept.

To whom of these would you swear alleagence too?
Posted by Josephus, Saturday, 15 January 2022 3:17:53 PM
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There are 2 versions of the Citizenship pledge.
One mentions God and the other does not.
Most people make the citizenship pledge at a
citizenship ceremony. Making the pledge is a
public commitment to Australia and her people.
But it's more than that. It means that by making
the pledge you accept the responsibility and
privileges of citizenship.

Here are what people commit to:

Pledge 1:

From this time forward under God
I pleadge my loyalty to Australia and its people
Whose democratic beliefs I share.
Whose rights and liberties I respect
And whose laws I will uphold and obey.

Pledge 2:

From this day forward
I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people
Whose democratic beliefs I share.
Whose rights and liberties I respect
And whose laws I will uphold and obey.

It can't be any clearer.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 15 January 2022 4:42:12 PM
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Josephus,

This is for you:

http://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/citizenship-subsite/files/australian-citizenship-ceremonies-code.pdf

It explains the importance of Australian Citizenship and
what the responsibilities and privileges are, amongst other
things. Again it may clarify things for you.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 15 January 2022 4:54:00 PM
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Foxy,
‘…and whose laws I will uphold and obey”
Does that include the Constitution?

You’re strangely. silent on the perjury by republican politicians who swear allegiance to the Queen.
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 15 January 2022 6:55:44 PM
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Foxy, TO WHAT PEOPLE OF AUSTRALIA ARE YOU PLEDGING ALLEGIANCE?

If you are following the current NITV promption aboriginals want their own Government, self-determination, and laws, they claim, "this land always was their's and always will be" and their flag flies above every one of their buildings and has pride of place in many Councils
Posted by Josephus, Saturday, 15 January 2022 7:52:05 PM
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You keep on telling us Australia is ONE Country - that is your blinkered view. Australia has become multiple nations by the very individual national cultures that is practised.
Posted by Josephus, Saturday, 15 January 2022 7:59:01 PM
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Josephus,

Australia is a successful multicultural society
uniting a multitude of cultures, experiences,
beliefs and traditions. We have flourished thanks
to our cultural diversity which is underpinned by our
common values, our commitment to democratic beliefs,
equal rights and liberties and the rule of law.

Our culture is a unique blend of its own that can't
really be compared to anywhere else.

Being Australian means believing in a multi-cultural
society one that embraces people from all ethnicities
(regardless of their faith, culture, race and skin colour).
Australians believe in freedom with responsibility. In
being inclusive, having an egalitarian spirit and in the
fair go.

Australians are awesome!

"We are one and we are many, and from all the lands on earth
we come. We sing with one voice, and share the one dream. I am
you are, we are Australian! ..."

http://sbs.com.au/language/english/what-does-being-an-australian-mean-to-you
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 16 January 2022 9:26:00 AM
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Josephus,

Thanks for the thread at a time when the republicans are coming out from underneath their rocks again. Nothing seems to have changed since the last, and only, referendum. The arguments are exactly the same, from the same people, and never the twain shall meet.

There is no point in argument: if there is another costly referendum, we will just have to bear it, and accept whatever a majority of voters in a majority of states decide. What a few OLO posters think will be like a fart in a gale.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 16 January 2022 10:16:35 AM
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If you fart
while wearing a thong
does it whistle?
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 16 January 2022 10:23:16 AM
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Obviously, Foxy wants to accept every national culture, so has no allegiance to any in particular. She will just allow the dominant nation's culture to become Australia. She is fixated on "From every Nation on Earth We come, we are many we are one" she is spouting Globalism, Unite Nations agenda with an ultimate view to World dominated by Communism - where everyone shares equally, and no culture stands out.
Posted by Josephus, Sunday, 16 January 2022 12:49:13 PM
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Josephus,

It appears that what I am saying is beyond your level of
comprehension. I am wasting my time talking to you.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 16 January 2022 1:22:46 PM
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Foxy, I understand exactly what you are saying - you identify with whatever national culture and law your comealian self enters.
Posted by Josephus, Sunday, 16 January 2022 1:33:45 PM
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Foxy,
You may may have missed the question.
Do citizens of Australia, new and old, owe any allegiance to the Constitution or the Parliament?
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 16 January 2022 1:38:47 PM
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Josephus,

Actually No.

I don't obey the law only when it is convenient.
I do not embrace and enable lies. And I don't
just love my country only when I win.
However, I realize that as a Trump supporter
this may be hard for you to understand.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 16 January 2022 1:41:24 PM
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Is Mise,

I have not missed the question.
I am still working on it and I shall let you know.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 16 January 2022 1:44:34 PM
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I see you are a Biden supporter; he is losing his mind and the confidence of the House because he lies and is taking funds off retirees who have built America to give to illegal entrants. He is resetting America for communism and Marxist ideology. You love this stuff.
Posted by Josephus, Sunday, 16 January 2022 3:08:22 PM
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What stuff?

The National poll conducted January 12-13 found that
45% of US adults approved of Biden's performance in
office. 50% disapproved and the rest were not sure.

Biden's approval numbers have hovered below 50% since
August.

At the same point in Donald Trump's presidency, about
30% of American approved of his performance in office
while 56% disapproved.

You certainly don't love this stuff.
(smile).
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 16 January 2022 3:15:42 PM
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Jose'

You assume if a person is anti Trump, they must be pro Biden, not necessarily. In my opinion Trump was disgusting, I'm not saying Biden is great. In a one party state with two heads like America, it don't matter a toss about the heads.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 16 January 2022 3:25:51 PM
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Foxy,
You’re working on it?
Why is it so hard to tell if citizens owe allegiance to our Parliament and Constitution?
Can’t you find a convenient opinion; perhaps the ARM can tell you or some of their politicians.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 16 January 2022 5:17:54 PM
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Is Mise,

I can see that you are impatient and want immediate
answers. Your suggestion of contacting the Australian
Republic Movement (ARM) is an excellent one and because
you're in a hurry you should - take action.

You can contact them at:

PO Box 7056
Leura NSW 2780
Tel: (02) 5022-9001

And your generous contribution will mkae a real difference:

http://republic.org.au/contribute

You're welcome.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 16 January 2022 5:29:11 PM
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Foxy
Got yourself into a corner again.
You can get out of it by answering the question.
Do Australian citizens owe allegiance to Parliament or the Constitution.

Come on, don’t be shy.
Posted by Is Mise, Sunday, 16 January 2022 10:25:13 PM
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Then we have the Aussie great patriot Tony Abbott nominally acting as trade envoy for post Brexit UK but acting in the interests of US libertarians which may disadvantage Australia's 'sovereignty' while having anti-EU chums like Hungarian PM Orban (while one is sure Abbott really admires Putin vs. PR threats of shirt fronting over shooting down of MAL flight); how patriotic is that?
Posted by Andras Smith, Tuesday, 18 January 2022 2:54:46 AM
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But he didn’t perjurer himself to get into Parliament, unlike Labor and Greens MPs.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 18 January 2022 8:43:19 AM
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Is Mise,

Instead Tony Abbott made a Captain's Call and brought
back the titles of knights and dames for "pre-eminent
Australians" and even made Prince Philip a knight.
Sadly he had the shortest term as PM since Harold Holt.
Imagine what else he could have achieved?
"Stop the boats." "Axe the tax" Knights and dames -
the mind boggles.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 18 January 2022 9:18:22 AM
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Foxy,
Which is preferable to being a perjurer, do you not agree?
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 18 January 2022 11:53:11 AM
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Do you all remember the 'loveable larrakin'
That's what the heart and soul of this nation once was.
But that time is past.
Now were all a bunch of childish bickering whingers.
This country sure isn't what it used to be.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 18 January 2022 3:47:58 PM
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SBS is promoting a project by a young child of "What is an Australian".
Josephus, that is a program probably more along the lines of dictating and manufacturing what the new Australia is now.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 18 January 2022 3:51:52 PM
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The "loveable larrikin?"

The Ned Kelly and Waltzing Matilda type -
Paul Hogan's sense of humour - the type
that's carefree and sceptical of power.
Yes indeed, that's how we talk about ourselves.
Not how we actually behave.

Our history is one of reliance on the state,
heightened regulation and mass compliance.Voting
is compulsory in this country. We were the
first nation to make seat belts compulsory in
cars. We're one of the first to make bicycle
helmets compulsory.

We were early adopters of mandatory breath tests for
motorists. We have extensive prohibitions on smoking
in public places, including outdoors. And the list
goes on.

Carefree larrikins? You betcha!
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 20 January 2022 12:53:23 PM
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Foxy,
It can’t be said often enough, voting is not compulsory, most of the other things that you mention are safety matters which any sensible person would adopt, and seat belts are only compulsory on the majority of vehicles e.g. they are not required on my 1949 Riley even as a registered vehicle but I have them fitted.
They are not necessary on unregistered vehicles which are not driven on public roads.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 20 January 2022 1:02:18 PM
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According to the AEC - voting is compulsory under federal
electoral law. It is compulsory for all eligible
Australian citizens to enrol and vote in federal elections,
by-elections and referendums.

Everyone of these measures from compulsory voting to
bicycle helmets and the other controls mentioned earlier
are wildly popular. In general, many argue they're
common-sense and regard critics of them as unreasonable.
In any event we comply silently with all of them.

We might complain about our politicians but we ultimately
expect our governments to solve our problems. Our love
of border control scarcely needs explanation. One of the
first laws we passed after federation was the Immigration
Restriction Act and it certainly has been the most
enduring theme of this COVID time.

Our adherence to regulation and mass compliance explains
the reluctance of many fearing any change especially as
far as a republic is concerned. It makes perfect sense.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 20 January 2022 2:13:40 PM
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Foxy,
Technically you’re right, but no one has ever been convicted for not voting after having attended a polling place; what you do with the ballot paper is your own business because it’s a secret ballot.
So there is no compulsion to actually vote.’
As I said seat belts are only compulsory on vehicles on the public roads, likewise helmets.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 20 January 2022 7:19:16 PM
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That's right Issy, we don't have compulsory voting, we have compulsory removal of your name from the roll. Seen plenty of ballots with nothing on come out of the box.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 20 January 2022 10:12:42 PM
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Is Mise: Under the states' various occupational health and safety laws driving standard vehicles (or other specialized vehicles such as a fork lift) on private property, if a work site, will usually require you to wear a seat belt.

But more generally it is illegal to drive a car in a dangerous manner that may risk life regardless of whether it is on public or private property (at least here in Queensland). This is not the exact wording, but the gist of it. So under these provisions it would not surprise me at all if a driver could be charged for not wearing a seat belt even if driving on private property.
Posted by thinkabit, Thursday, 20 January 2022 11:25:00 PM
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In the above last post I forgot to mention that I'm pretty certain that when driving on roads of publicly accessible private land (eg: shopping center car parks) then all the standard road rules apply, which would include wearing seat belts.
Posted by thinkabit, Thursday, 20 January 2022 11:41:37 PM
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This SBS article sounds similar to the apparently anti-Anglo 'artist' Peter Drew trying to replace 'Aussie' identity which the anti-anglo-racist immigration program is making a fiat accompli on both sides of politics.

Every culture needs a place to live- ours is being destroyed in the name of truth- isn't this racist?

Sadly our Anglo-culture has done much to protect other cultures- no good deed goes unpunished.
Posted by Canem Malum, Friday, 21 January 2022 2:16:20 AM
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History speaks for itself - whether we acknowledge
it or not.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 21 January 2022 8:05:15 AM
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This is a question that is evolving over time.

What is an Australian today?

What was an Australian 10 years ago?

What was an Australian 100 years ago?

What was an Australian 500 years ago?

So imo it's a pretty generic, silly question to ponder about, it's like asking what does it mean to be human.
Posted by Gazza91, Sunday, 23 January 2022 6:41:52 PM
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Welcome, Gazza91

You are very correct.

Names and boundaries are not the reality, they are superimposed over the reality. They can be used to handle everyday practicalities, but have no use in finding the truth of anything.

Since "Australian" has no everyday practicality unless you are employed by Australian border police or the like where you are being paid to let "Australians" through but not others, others have no true need to use that limiting term.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 23 January 2022 10:05:06 PM
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What is an Australlian is identifying the attitudes and behaviours and social culture of what is typical Australian. NITV believes it is being smeared in clay, standing in smoke, and doing a war dance - Is this Typical?
Posted by Josephus, Monday, 24 January 2022 8:10:29 AM
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Jose'

Just as bad as blue and white zinc on the nose, a floppy hat, beach towel and thongs in the Aussie flag, all made in China of course. Standing on the hot sand of Bondi Beach skulling cans of VB.
Posted by Paul1405, Monday, 24 January 2022 8:38:23 AM
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Josephus,

You ask if "being smeared in clay, standing in smoke
and doing a war dance - is this typical?"

It's more typical than paying homage to a 95 year old
filthy rich foreign monarch living in a foreign land
with a morally questionable family living off
the public purse whose visits we have to pay for.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 24 January 2022 9:26:34 AM
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In my opinion Foxy is a filthy monarch.
Posted by Canem Malum, Monday, 24 January 2022 10:15:58 AM
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In my opinion - parasites seldom altogether abandon
a monarch so long as the crown still glitters on
the monarch's head.

Dieu et mon droit
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 24 January 2022 10:27:50 AM
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Foxy you can certainly mix metaphors.
!. We are not giving homage to any questionable immoral family.
2. We are pledging allegiance to the Westminster form of goverment our Constitution, its principles, and laws.

A Marxist terorist may not like Australia's constitution, principles and laws; Held by the Crown.
Posted by Josephus, Monday, 24 January 2022 2:09:18 PM
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Josephus,

Read what I actually wrote not what you think
I wrote.

What's Marxism got to do with anything?
It's a subject that you keep bringing up.
Is that your religion?
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 24 January 2022 2:42:59 PM
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Foxy,
Did you ever get around to deciding if citizens, new and old, owe any allegiance to the Parliament and Constitution of Australia?

Or do you think that they owe their allegiance to Australia the geographical?
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 24 January 2022 3:00:10 PM
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Is Mise,

Do you know how one keeps a fool waiting?

I'll tell you tomorrow.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 24 January 2022 4:22:21 PM
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is mise,
She has no answer. Even the red bandana peter prefers the 1999 proposal over the one he recently presented. Perhaps she is waiting for Peter to say who will command the ADF.
Posted by Josephus, Monday, 24 January 2022 4:36:02 PM
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Foxy,
OK, so you don’t know and haven’t the brains to discuss the issue.
Fair enough, but I think that citizens, old and new, owe their allegiance to our Head of State, Elizabeth II, Queen of Australia just as do the military, the police and our MPs.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 24 January 2022 4:42:22 PM
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Dear Is Mise,

«Fair enough, but I think that citizens, old and new, owe their allegiance to our Head of State, Elizabeth II, Queen of Australia just as do the military, the police and our MPs.»

"Old and new"?

Why would the old owe anything, just because they were born?
As for the new, yes, if they received their citizenship before 1994.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 24 January 2022 8:45:01 PM
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Yuyutsu,
We all owe allegiance to our country, it’s part of what being a citizen is.

What’s 1994 got to do with things?
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 24 January 2022 9:13:06 PM
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Dear Is Mise,

«We all owe allegiance to our country, it’s part of what being a citizen is.»

I disagree that one owes allegiance to anything merely by virtue of being born. A person born in Australia has never asked to become an Australian citizen, it was automatic. Should they had to ask for it, then they could be required to fulfill certain conditions such as allegiance, but that was not the case.

Now in your previous post you referred to allegiance to Her Majesty the Queen, not to a country.

New citizens are different than the Australian-born because they, like the list of servicemen you mentioned, are required to make an oath/affirmation in order to become Australian citizens or to obtain that office.

«What’s 1994 got to do with things?»

The wording of that oath/affirmation changed in 1994:
Beforehand, it was about allegiance to Her Majesty the Queen.
Afterwards it became to be about allegiance to the Australian people and their values, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_(Australia%29
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 1:06:08 AM
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Parents and the education system have the responsibility to educate children with the grace of being a citizen of the greatest system of Government on Earth.

The fact the system is failing is because the fathers have abandoned their responsibility in the family.
Posted by Josephus, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 8:02:20 AM
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Yuyutsu,
Allegiance is to Australia, yes and therefore to the Parliament and the Constitution.
As the Australian Parliament consists of the Queen, the Senate and the House of Representatives (see the Constitution) then allegiance is owed to the Queen.

Foxy take note.
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 9:30:04 AM
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Is Mise,

Take note of the Citizenship pledges and
what people pledge in their citizenship
oath. It's clear to most of us.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 9:42:21 AM
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Citizen's including "Citizen's By Birth" have a duty to society. Rights and responsibilities go hand in hand.
Posted by Canem Malum, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 10:34:11 AM
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Reciprocity is a common principle for human and animal relationships. Kudos Is Mise for standing up for your principles against the subversive woke bullies. In this case at least- you remind me of the noble guard dog in Plato's Republic.
Posted by Canem Malum, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 10:38:44 AM
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Indeed. Citizens have a duty to society and
responsibilities go hand in hand. That's why
the Citizenship Pledge is specific and it means
you are accepting the responsibilities and
privileges of citizenship.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:18:43 AM
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Dear Is Mise,

«Allegiance is to Australia, yes»

Yes, for those holding (or who held in the past) certain public offices and those who were not born here and received Australian citizenship from 1994 on.

---

Dear Canem Malum,

«Citizen's including "Citizen's By Birth" have a duty to society.»

Same for non-citizens. One's duty to society has nothing to do with citizenship.

Anyway, who said that "society" must equal the Australian state?

Perhaps the best service to society involves working towards breaking this conglomerate into smaller, more reasonably-sized states where individuals, families and communities have more say over their way of life?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 11:20:51 AM
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Foxy,
The Citezenship pledges are to Australia and its laws.
The Constitution is part of that law.
Or do you think that citizens, old and new, are somehow exempt from the Constitution?

The Constitution that says that the Queen is part of the Parliament.

Or don’t you support the Constitution of our country?
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 12:28:13 PM
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Is Mise,

Australia is a federation of states which each have
their own constitution, government and laws. Australia's
system of government is a parliamentary democracy. Our
laws are determined by parliaments elected by the
people. This means that Australian citizens are involved
in how the country is governed because Australian citizens
vote for people to represent them in parliament.

The following link explains further:

http://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/citizenship-subsite/Pages/Learn-about-being-an-australian.aspx
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 1:04:22 PM
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Australian citizens are not swearing allegiance to politicians - parliamentarians - they are swearing allegiance to principles higher than politics. They are swearing allegiance to the rules that govern politicts and Parliamentarians. To have a President elected by the people means the highest power is political and only serves those that support the views of the Politician. Just like Foxy aligns herself with Biden and the Democrats.
Posted by Josephus, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 1:39:13 PM
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Foxy,
I didn’t realize that new Citizens swore/affirmed loyalty to the various States; are they only obligated to the State where the swearing in takes place?
I thought that you had been saying that they swore loyalty to Australia, care to tell us what you understand by the term “Australia”, is it the universally recognised national identify or the geographical land masses?
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 2:01:37 PM
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Australian of the year must be someone who best represented Australia in 2021 on the international sphere and not someone with a political campaign, persons with the calibre of Dylan Martin Alcott or Ash Barty. Great Australians who enjoy their life and inspire others.
Posted by Josephus, Tuesday, 25 January 2022 6:24:49 PM
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