As a person who is pro-choice on healthcare, should Quantas be able to discriminate on flights re COVID-19?

What about other businesses?

Qantas used to be owned by the public (In 1947, QEA was nationalised, with the Australian Labor government led by Prime Minister Ben Chifley buying the shares owned (from Wikipedia).

Should an airline service be provided for those blocked by airlines due to COVID-19 and refusing a vaccine?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-24/covid-19-vaccine-passport-australia-qantas/12914246

What do you think?

It's concerning for those that believe in Free Speech that it is becoming more costly. I guess what is good for the goose is good for the gander. We can choose not to invest in Qantas based on their politics, etc, etc. I've heard of some being denied a bank account based on their political beliefs- this is concerning as a bank account is required in modern society. Perhaps this is the next step in political correctness to deny those that believe in free speech the right to life. The paradox is I would support to same being done to the communists and socialists. But I suspect I would be able to resolve this paradox.

YES.

In fact, the Commonwealth should be enforcing it.

Especially if it intends to start bringing in millions of Chinese again.

Problem is the Chinese government will give them vaccination certificates that aren't worth the paper they are written on.

To extrapolate that this is related to free speech or the right to life is a nonsense. The public good has to be a consideration, just as people are banned from carrying fire arms on aircraft or travelling whilst sick are excluded, and in the ridiculous, people are banned from flying whilst naked. I would say this will be the future of ALL international airline travel for some time, in fact countries will not only require you to have a passport, but a vaccination certificate as well before entering.

CM, what is that last bit of your post about communists and socialists? Same being done, what done? As for bank account denial and political affiliation, not in this country, want to show some evidence. True Trumpism, make something up then present it as fact.

Its bad enough the way the Trumpster leadership in America has carried on with ridiculous claims and lack pf response to the pandemic, resulting in the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of thousands. Now the same fools are going to carry on about getting vaccinated. Because of this virus, Trump will go down in history with the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot etc as a leader who caused human death on a grand scale.

If a passenger is not infected then it really doesn't matter. If they get infected whilst overseas, they should stay there till they're cured. On the other hand, has anyone proven that the vaccine is actually working ?

Canem Malum,
Re Qantas, is that two geese or two ganders ?

As yet, there is no vaccine available; Qantas is just "looking into the possibility" of requiring passengers to be vaccinated.

Don't jump the gun. Don't do more scaremongering; that's for the politicians and scientific elites who need to be called out, not encouraged.

The Qantas CEO is always telling us how safe the air reticulation in aircraft is; he has been using that as a reason why Qantas should still have been flying! Not a man to be taken seriously

COVID-19 didn't start in an aeroplane, it was picked up from an aeroplane's destination !

Looks like a good business opportunity, printing vaccination certificates.

I gather that IARTA is working with governments to have a system
where, as it was years ago you had to have an innoculation certificate
for yellow fever and some other disease before you could travel by air.
Much easier now, get the injection as usual and your doctor enters it
on the nation health register and when presenting your passport it
pulls up your vaccination record anywhere in the world.
If you do not want to have a vaccine then don't travel, it is as simple as that !

*...Looks like a good business opportunity, printing vaccination certificates...*

Says Hasbeen.

That would fit nicely next to the drivers license on the back of a weetbix box, available for Chinese tourists they seem to carry, (according to my observation), which, unlike the plebs version in this country, is without a photo ID. Special privileges!

Dan

Now that Trump has lost fair and square

his band of loonies are searching for a new cause.

Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 26 November 2020 4:55:00 AM

Comment 1-

To extrapolate that this is related to free speech or the right to life is a nonsense. The public good has to be a consideration...

Answer 1- Yes the public good is a consideration- but when "companies" are effectively creating law- this is another thing. Not sure I would want the Sleeping Giants creating law for me.

Comment 2-

As for bank account denial and political affiliation, not in this country, want to show some evidence.

Answer 2-

Yes someone mentioned that their Commonwealth Bank account was closed for their political views. Yes admittedly it is an anecdotal report. I think in this persons case they didn't want to make the issue public because of other implications to their privacy.

From memory there have been many cases of Paypal, eBay, Amazon denying access to funds from customers and supporters based on political views of the provider. This is why many organisations have moved to Patreon- although even Patreon has been under pressure to deny access to it's platform to certain groups.

Similar things have happened- apparently the Sleeping Giants closed down Murdoch's "Your Money" TV channel by making claims of racism to their advertisers. Even Google is influencing discussion on OLO by threatening to withdraw advertising.

Admittedly I did a quick Google search and I wasn't able to see any reports of closure of bank accounts due to political views.

I am concerned with services that have been come to be considered "basic utilities" like Google Search for example becoming politicized and denied for something that isn't illegal through the inapproapriate use of so called "standards of conduct". There's not much that Australia can do about things that operate externally to Australia (apart from blocking them) but companies like Qantas are another thing.

I probably wouldn't object if the ones that were being discriminated against were communists- but there you go

CM,

In a duty of care scenario, QANTAS may have a case for a "no vax no fly" rule. Like the requirement of a passport to establish identity facts about an arrival for obvious reasons, a vaccination certificate may be an imposed government requirement to protect both fellow travellers and those in the country of destination.

At the moment you wouldn't want plane loads of folks from the Land of the Brave, and Home of the Free landing on your doorstep unannounced without a jab or three. Particularly from South Dakota run by a sycophantic Mini Trump woman, 60% of those being tested are returning a positive result.

As for the bank and other stuff, no evidence, therefore can't agree that's true or not.

We already have no vaccination, no childcare.

This is probably reasonable, as vaccination against childhood diseases are pretty well proven.

Anything that comes out against Corona in the next couple of years will be very short of testing & being proven not only effective, but also safe.

There are also some pretty good reasons to believe a whole lot of profiteering, & corruption is involved.

I'll drive rather than submit to one to be able to fly.

I won't be flying any time soon so this won't affect
me. However, it may affect my family members some of
whom travel to Europe every couple of years.

I'm not sure what laws airlines can bring into effect
I imagine that the government and our medical experts
may have a say in all of this and will insist in doing
what's best for the country and all concerned.

Lets wait and see what if anything develops.
Nothing has been settled as yet.

plantagenet,

Lost. But not fair and square. People who are actually Americans and actually know what they are talking about are quite certain of the corruption and Big Tech manipulation of voters that has seen Trump off. Corruption in the US is as much part and parcel of the scene as it is in the other Americas to the south. It's something we Australians do not understand - even you Lefties. The Greens would understand, naturally.

Total nonsense.

Trump's claims of fraud and corruption have
been proven baseless. Legally they have humoured
him and judges have not found anything. Biden won
by a majority. The only ones claiming fraud are
Trump and his crazies. Who happen to have LOST!

Get over it - and move on!

If you had seen the latest news, avoided by the MSM you would know that is not true Foxy. As before I suggest you widen your reading base

It is a shambles, one state sent out 1.8 million early ballot papers
and 2.4 million came back and they were counted.
Elections in the US it appears have always been a joke.

Gentlemen,

If you have any evidence to back up what you
are claiming - kindly provide it for us.

Thank You.

In the meantime - we shall rely on what the courts
have found and the election results that have been
thoroughly tested and accepted.

cont'd ...

The electoral college will determine the final
outcome in December.

Foxy, I like you can only go by what is reported from day to day.
The courts will finally have a say I guess and the state return like
I mentioned would be easy to verify and hard to fake.
I saw a page from the manual for those vote counting machines.
It clearly indicated in one paragraph that the operator cab adjust how
the votes are allocated. That was said to be how they adjust the result.
Now of course you need to sit down with the machine and test it.
That is what I would expect someone to do and demonstrate to the court.
It is so important that surely no one can be satisfied until such a test is done.
But then that is the US and they seem to accept that sort of fiddle.

If you have any evidence to back up what you
are claiming - kindly provide it for us.
Foxy,
The crooks have the evidence & they're not going to let anyone see it !

The discussion has moved from Qantas banning customers to something about US elections. Some people's minds move in mysterious ways.

There is no merit to Trump's claims.
They have been denied by every election authority.
All claims have been disproved and explained.
It's Trump and his allies making false claims
about the election that are totally baseless.
The only path to tangible impact runs through the
courts - an area where evidence reigns. The evidence
has found Trump's claims to be totally baseless.

As for what Qantas will or will not do?
Early days yet. We shall have to wait and see what
the government decides regarding the vaccine.

Foxy,

Will you accept the vaccine when it is rolled out?

Hi Foxy,

I don't care about the American election result, although its good to see Trump gone. For me its the same tune different singer. But the Usual Suspects are going ballistic with all sorts of claims. Say something and then according to them its true.

Bazz you say things, then don't back them up with any kind of evidence, just as Trump makes wild accusations in public about massive voter fraud. So far in court his lawyers have failed to provide the evidence, and the law suits are chucked out accordingly, Trumps should put up, or shut up.

Hi Paul,

I care very much about the US election results.
I have family and friends in the US. We have very
strong connections to that country so I care about
what happens there.

I shall breathe a sigh of relief when Trump finally
leaves. The US has dodged a bullet!

Mr O,

If and when the vaccine is available and is offered to
members of the public - of course I will accept it under
my doctor's guidance.

Foxy,

The Commonwealth will need to show that the vaccine does not have any long term health effects.

If it cannot show evidence to this effect I will not accept it.

I bet Soot and his family won't be first in line to get it.

Paul1405,

There you go again, mentioning all the not-so-brights.

Paul, you are right of course, it is hard to give references when they
are news items on TV etc etc. The one about the manual was a US TV
video. The other was a US lawyer on US TV.
Another was about a US Postal worker that swore an affidavit and if
she was lying it is a criminal offense so it said.
Certainly there is enough reports like that in need of verification.
If they don't examine it all then it will leave a smell around for the next four years,
Just like the Russian influence for the last four years.

Bazz,

The electoral authorities have been examining all
the allegations and found them baseless. The
vulnerabilities in the US voting system may be
real - but the exploitation of these vulnerabilities
is not happening quite like what Trump and his allies
say.

Foxy, there are so many accusations I doubt anyone has had time to
check them all. Court cases take time and then a delay until verdict.
Anyway, they are going to the Supreme Court.
The local courts I believe are presided over by elected judges.
Over the years there have been accusations of political bias.
Don't know much detail about it all so it will be interesting to watch.

Bazz,

So far its been done state by state.
The problem is Trump's campaign has spent a
great deal of time in court with little success and
without presenting anything close to evidence that
points to a fraudulent result.

Ohio state election law professor Nick Foley said,
"You have to have a legal claim and you have to have
evidence to back it up. And that's just not there".

You can't keep claiming fraud just because you don't
like the results!

Foxy,

You are wrong when you say "You [Trump] can't keep claiming fraud just because you don't like the results!" because that is exactly what he is doing.

I reckon set the FBI on Trump and his gang to be investigated for attempting to incite rebellion and usurp the Presidency.

There are already rumblings amongst Democrats in Congress to do it after the January inauguration.

Trump needs to learn that YOU'RE FIRED means YOU'RE FIRED.

It does not matter to me what the result is, I do not care much who is
the president, but for any country to have something like this hanging
over it is bad news.
It reminds me of what went on when Trump won four years ago.
It should make our people examine our electoral system closely.
It seems reasonably sound but multiple voting does happen but having
to have someone run around every voting booth to vote in the same name
could never produce enough difference to swing an electorate let alone a government.

As the subject has been totally changed by people too lazy to start another thread, I'll share this with you:

A book I have just finished reading, published early this year, predicted that Big Tech companies would "steal" the election from Donald Trump. After they were caught napping in 2016, merely censoring information about Hilary Clinton, and paying for the bussing of Lefties to the polling booths, they wouldn't be caught napping again in 2020.

It would take a "titanic" effort by Republicans to stop Big Tech from stealing the election "this time". It would be a miracle if Trump managed to overcome the forces of Big Tech bias that was arrayed against him.

That was some crystal ball the author had.

Yes ttbn threads do get stolen, probably as they are running down,
and just to do it again;
Right at this moment NSW has an electricity deficit of 1.911 Gigawatts.
Most of the deficit is coming from Queensland 1.2 Gwatt and some from
Victoria (300 Mw) and some from Tasmania.
50% from black coal and 16% brown coal.
Sth Aussie is getting about 60 Mw from Victoria. 46% Gas, 42% Solar.
Just in case you were wondering what happens in a heat wave.

Bazz,

Yeah. Why not.

The electricity grid is a mystery to me. It's all whose up who. As long as the lights stay on is all that matters to me.

Isn't it obvious that an airline may place any conditions of entry they like on their planes?

Wise or stupid conditions, they may find out when people choose to use or forego their services.

People ought to be able to take their own boats and row across the ocean wherever they like, but why should anyone assume that they can board someone else's airplane without adhering to the owner's conditions? Surely you would not allow just anyone to board your own boat!

Come on ttbn, your lights went out years ago. Remember that old saying "The light are on, but nobody's home!"

Yuyutsu, in the long run it will be a government decision, like no passport, it will be no vacc's certificate no entry.

Sure, travellers can decline to use Qantas if they don't want to produce a vaccination certificate. They could also decline to vote for the politicians who have made their lives miserable with restrictions and assaults on their liberties. But, they will do neither. They won't stop doing anything but bare shopping for food and essentials to avoid having to scan with their smart phones or write down their details on entering just about any business premises.

They will continue to allow businesses, unelected officials and politicians to treat them like Chinese. No point in worrying about a Chinese invasion. We will be our own China before much longer.

I wonder if it was a QANTAS flight that was just chartered to bring in those Chinese students to Darwin today (most likely at taxpayers' expense.)

Do I get a prize for guessing right?

Everyone knows that international students don't come here for the education.

They come here to stay by getting jobs which will lead to getting permanent residency.

I saw a news item this week where an Indian came here to do a 1 year masters in accountancy and ended up bringing in his wife and had two kids here and then brought in his mum and still hasn't completed his degree because he was - prior to losing his job during the pandemic - too busing working to support his family.

What happened to come here, do your degree, and piss off home.

We should just rename all our universities and colleges migrant centres.

Mr. Opinion,

And the Ad Man and his pathetic crew are well aware of it. It's all the Ad Man's fault; he could put a stop to it, but he is actually facilitating it.

ttbn,

Remember when Tony Abbott brokered the China-Australia Free Trade Agreement when he was PM and justified it by telling all of us it was good for Australia.

How about we get him to come back and eat his words.

He would probably get around it by saying that he is a lawyer and everybody knows that lawyers are supposed to lie.

This post is meant to be about vaccine and being denied travel on Qantas airlines!

Some have taken the position, those in same sex relationships shouldn't be denied wedding cakes from a baker - but I'm sure they'd gladly allow Qantas to deny others the right to a flight.

What if a family member was dying interstate?

Where does one draw the line? Should business have the free choice to cut off whoever they want?

Paul said;
Its bad enough the way the Trumpster leadership in America has carried on with ridiculous claims

A judge in Pennslyvania has stopped the state from certifying the
ballot count. The TV item did not say what the grounds were or for
how long and under what conditions.
Might do a google search on it.

Paul; yes here it is in a Pittsburgh newspaper. Seems to be about
Pennsylvania making illegal rule changers or something.
Don't follow it all that closely but I remember that was one of the
things that Trump was complaining about.
http://tinyurl.com/y3m3t46l

Dear Paul,

«Yuyutsu, in the long run it will be a government decision»

Yes, this is always the case, those who wield power can do whatever they like, so nothing we write or say here on OLO or elsewhere makes a difference.

Nevertheless, we here discuss what ought to be, what is right and what is wrong, independently of what will actually happen, at least this is what I do.

---

Dear Nathan,

«Where does one draw the line? Should business have the free choice to cut off whoever they want?»

The line needs to be drawn between private and public bodies.

A "business" at the bottom line is ultimately made of people, nothing but people. "Business" as such has no free will, no feelings, no power of determination and no reason to be compassionate for, but those people who run the business do and ought to have the same freedom as people who want to travel.
So a business that receives no public funds or privileges, ought to be free to choose whom they serve - that certainly includes bakers who should be able to refuse service to same-sex couples.

People ought to be able to leave Australia at any time, but airlines need not provide them with traveling services. So long as people, vaccinated or otherwise, are not forcefully prevented from sailing their own boats, swimming out the ocean, taking off in their own hot-air balloon or climbing aboard foreign ships or aircraft that accept them, I would say that this is OK.

As for what I would personally do if I owned an airline, I would allow unvaccinated people to fly so long as I am confident that they cannot infect other passengers, for example if they continue to reside in an astronaut-like self-containing suit throughout the flight, or if they already had COVID-19 and blood tests show that they have an appropriate level of anti-bodies.

Well Bazz, we know what a reprobate Trump is. No American President can be compared to Hitler in his final days, but Trump comes close. Not even the scumbag Nixon as he tried to protect himself from the crimes of Watergate was as reprehensible as Trump has been since November 3rd. Sure, courts will hold things up for a time, while the Trump lawyers argue their frivolous case, but in the end Trumps has no argument, and the outcome will see Biden become the legitimate President January 20th 2021.

Hi Individual,

I enjoyed your Saturday comment, it was from a died-in-the-wool paranoid:

" .... The crooks have the evidence & they're not going to let anyone see it ! ....."

And you have evidence of that ? No ? By definition ? Here's another valuable quote: "He who asserts, must demonstrate."

And another one: "Otherwise, blow it out your arse."

You need to see a shrink quick-smart :)

Joe

Pseudo-Mouth,

My God you have a foul mouth.

So it's time for another name change, And guess what, it's back to being Foul-Mouth.

It's your foul mouth that gives you away as being someone who is not well educated. Other than the fact that you lied to me about having a BA and a BA(Hons).

PS But one thing I do praise you for as a member of Forum's pro-China camp is that you are definitely not as dim as you sim.

I told you all at the start of this the government doesn't have to make it mandatory,
Because big business will dictate that none of us can take part in society until we do.

It's authoritarianism by big business, not government.
Multi-nationals have more clout and cash than nations themselves.
That's were we are at.

They will keep pushing the UN agendas and we the people will pay for everything;
- Because everything big business does, we paid for in the first place.

This new world we're paying for it and the cost of global agendas are factored into the cost of everything.

Make the people poor, and then fool them into supporting the exact people that keep them poor, kind of like blacks in America and Democrats.

Foxy,

R U OK ? You haven't posted for three weeks :(.

I hope everything is all right with you. I miss your compassionate and kind contributions.

Much love,

Joe

Foul-Mouth,

I think she's left you for someone else.

Don't worry, you'll get over her. In fact this might brighten up your day:

http://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-army/2020/09/01/what-war-with-china-could-look-like/

The US Navy are calling for a new First Fleet to be based in Australia, along with land installations. Given China's fake fishing adventure in PNG, this would seem to be good idea.

ttbn,

Didn't they have one in Darwin back in 1942?

And look what happened to that!

Ttbn,

Yes, that stupid Darwin Harbour lease should be revoked and its recipients have their deposit refunded. And in addition to an US naval base in Darwin, there should be one set up on Cocos Islands as well.

Perhaps the Cocos Islands one could be a joint base including India, Vietnam, Japan and Thailand's navies. This should have been done years ago.

So now it's become a matter of urgency.

Joe