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Dear Not_Now.Soon,

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I’m sure you will recall that I indicated in a previous post (page 54 of this thread) regarding the violence and crime committed by Afro-Americans :

« The “violence and crime” is simply the expression of their frustration and powerlessness, their inability to exercise effective control over their lives and the complete lack of perspective »

To consider that this reaction renders them responsible for racial discrimination by white Americans is a gross injustice. They are simply reacting to the intolerable and insupportable situation that has been imposed on them continuously, generation after generation, for more than 500 years by slave traders and owners and their descendants.

Is it necessary to recall that the slave trade was officially declared a “crime against humanity” at the anti-racism conference held in Durban in South Africa on 31 August-7 September 2001 ?

It is a gross insult to social justice to suggest that the Afro-American community is itself guilty of the racial discrimination of which it continues to be the perennial victim today.

The violence and crime we witness are simply a reaction to the endemic racial discrimination, not the cause of it. That is as clear as crystal. But you have to look at the whole picture to see it – not just the consequences.

It reminds me of the saying : « When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger » – Confucius.

Another observation which I think is pertinent and worth reflecting on in this context is :

« The formulation of a problem is often more essential than its solution. If I had 60 minutes to solve a problem, I’d spend 55 minutes defining it and 5 minutes solving it » – Einstein.

There has to be a major change in American society, in particular, in the attitude of white Americans to their black compatriots for the violence and crime to cease and for Afro-Americans to have any chance at all of building “stronger family foundations.

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When did slavery cease in the United States, did it end with Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation on 1st January 1863, which famously declared; "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free." Not so, American slavery continued long after the end of the Civil War in 1865. The southern states introduced "penal servitude", which was nothing more than institutionalised state slavery. The practice of arresting mostly (90%) young black men on trumped up charges, such as vagrancy, then sentencing then to a long period of servitude affected at least 400,000 people, and did not cease in a totally exploitative form until the last man was released in 1942.

Once arrested on a trumped up misdemeanour charge, which had been categorised as a felony, such as being in the vicinity of railway tracks without having means of support, eg $5 in your pocket, a sentence of 5 years penal servitude would be imposed, some with a 5 year sentence served up to 14 years, in one case a black man was just forgotten about, as were many others. Then for a small monthly fee, the prisoner was hired out to private individuals as labour. The private individual was responsible for the up keep of the prisoner. Many died under the harsh working conditions, and were simply buried in an unmarked grave near the work location, and then replaced with another prisoner.

Paul,

Yes, how quickly we forget about the chain gangs, mostly Black workers maintaining the roads etc. of southern states. Perhaps some of them were used to maintain the statues of Confederate generals and crooked politicians.

Maybe some of them are still being used like that, doing the crummy maintenance work in some out-of-the-way hick southern county ?

Joe

Pat Biegler, director of the Georgia Public Works department stated that the prison labor system implemented in Georgia facilities saves the department around US$140,000 per week.[32] The largest county prison work camp in Columbus, Georgia, Muscogee County Prison, saves the city around $17 to US$20 million annually according to officials, with local entities also benefiting from the monetary funds the program receives from the state of Georgia.[32] According to Prison Warden of Muscogee County Prison, Dwight Hamrick, the top priority is to provide prison labor to Columbus Consolidated Government and to rehabilitate inmates, with all inmates being required to work. Inmates performing tasks related to sanitation, golf course, recycling, and landfill receive a monetary compensation of around US$3 per day, while those in jobs such as facility maintenance, transportation, and street beautification do not receive any compensation.[32]

Hi Joe,

Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation, was not some altruistic motivated "I need to free the black man" nonsense, it was designed to ruin the southern economy.

The story of French Guiana, sometimes called the story of Devils Island. How the French exploited their own people as convicts.

Just so we're on the same page here, we're no longer talking about discrimination and slavery. We're talking about the justice system and prisoner's rights. The implication is that the black person in jail was innocent and discriminated against to get there unjustly.

I'm going to stop you guys right there for now, on this tangent. Though you seem to on a roll, the implication of the black people in jail are innocent. This is a point worth focusing on because it's either a strong point (if it's accurate), or it's a very weak point ignored (if it's false).

You guys have already stated that the black community is at no fault for the increase of violence and crime within the community. That this is the fault of discrimination. I take it you also mean that those caught in violent crime should not be arrested because they are black and that would be discrimination? I hope you see the flaw in this line of thought. Prison rights might be worth considering, but on the other hand, which sounds like a worse situation. Being locked up at all time of your sentence, or to go out on a job to stay busy a little bit. Rehabilitation should include some kind of work so that a prisoner doesn't go into the jail system and come out worse then they were before. The dicey issue from there is corruption and who profits from it. Honestly,
I'm a fan of the prison program of prisoners taking care of wild horses, and breaking them (term meaning to train them) into horses that are domesticated. Look it up if you're interested. I think it's a good turn to actually try and rehabilitate instead of just punish.

To Banjo Paterson.

Earlier in the thread (as you've repeated) you said that violent crime is just an expression due to frustration of being discriminated against. In other words they are not held accountable for their own actions. I reject that reasoning entirely. If a crime is being done against a population, and they react violently, then they still reacted violently. That is still their own action to bare the burden of. If on the one hand they only acted violently to those who performed the injustice on them, then that could be arguable for some kind of social justice thing, (arguable, but not very well, it is still a weak position to hold), however that is not the case with violence within the black community done to anyone, including other African Americans.

Just to be clear, my stance is that you are responsible for your own actions. Repent and turn from your sins sort of reasoning, instead of make excuses and rationalizations for the harms you do. If there is an underlying cause of underlying factor, such as discrimination, that is an issue worth trying to fix, but it is not a justification for violent crime.

I also reject the 2 part idea that 1) discrimination is the cause of broken families, and 2) that the family foundation can't be helped to be stronger and stand up to the hardships the people face.

In other words Banjo, your stance and my stance completely disagree with one another. I don't think this is from a lack of getting the other person's points, but instead strong disagreement with eachother. The idea of just forcing people to not discriminate when there is still active reasons to justify discrimination is an idea that will fail before it has a chance to be tried. That's just the reality of the situation. It has nothing to do with placing blame on black people. Only that we should look for solutions that actually will work instead of arguing over things that have no practical application to begin with.