With an horrendous death toll from Covid-19, more than 100,000, plus mass unemployment, 40 million filing for benefits during the pandemic, giving a real jobless rate of over 23.9%. The American economy is heading into a period of deep recession. Now more than a dozen American cities are being subjected to violent rioting, because of another unjustified police killing of a man of colour, looting and burning is common place in many locations. Many say the Trump administration is the worse ever, branding it as totally inept and chaotic.

Given all these negatives, can the United States remain the worlds only super power, or will it continue to decline and be overtaken by China in the near future?

.

Dear Paul1405,

.

It’s certainly headed in that direction, Paul. China is slowly limping along that rugged old mountain track, full of potholes, catching up with the US which, sadly, has stumbled and put one knee to the ground – but, you never know, the US might come to its senses and be saved by the bell – set to ring on Tuesday, 3 November.

Hopefully, the old man in the starting blocks, waiting to take the relay, will be able to resist a little longer … provided, of course, his vision is better than that of his predecessor and doesn’t run in the wrong direction in the same erratic fashion.

.

US has problems, sure. Big problems.

But the idea that China will provide anything to aspire to, at least from a liberal rights perspective, is the stuff of dreamland.

It would only get worse.

Not to late for the US to find a better policy mix, but doubt it will come under Trump. Obviously, a high iq does not really mean anything

Wonder how long it'll be before Mexico decide they need a wall.

The riots that have broken out all over the US highlight black racism, which is always lurking, waiting for an excuse to run amok and do a spot of looting. Had the victim of police brutality been white, there would have been none of the mayhem that is now occurring. White Americans do not behave in that way, as white people don't worldwide. Just one of the many differences between the races that renegade whites deny in their obsession with false racial equivalence.

The usual signs are being waved: 'black lives matter', 'coloured people shouldn't be murdered', 'stop killing us', and lots of other blah. All lives matter, nobody should be murdered, all killing should stop.

While the murderous cop who quite inhumanly put his boot on that man's neck deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail, as do his colleagues who stood by, there is no excuse for full scale riots, which could lead to more deaths, and looting and wrecking property.

You want to talk about China? If there were any blacks in China, they would have been wiped out long ago

As usual the white racial apologist ttbn is full of his "what ifs". Simply assume things to be so, when its all the thoughts of a delusional mind. Take this; "if there were any blacks in China, they would have been wiped out long ago" would they really, got any evidence for that claim, or is is it more ttbn bunk!

As your man Donald liked to claim, "Make America Great Again" did he envisage a new "slave trade", no chains required, economic slavery is cheaper and more profitable.

Trump has barricaded himself inside Fortress Trump, aka the White House, surrounded himself with secret service agents, shouting; "Shoot them if they try to get me!" ttbn you sure can back some cockeyed losers!

The riots that have broken out all over the US highlight black racism, which is always lurking, waiting for an excuse to run amok
ttbn,
My thoughts exactly, same as here just not as radical due to lack of numbers ! To think that the African Americans are imports themselves does show you the controlled nature of the indigenous Americans who we don't appear to see rioting at every stupid action by a white man.
This Police Officer should receive Capital punishment, there was absolutely no excuse for his brutality ! The rioters & looters too should be charged to the highest degree !
Their idiotic behaviour has nothing whatsoever to do with the killing of George Floyd !

Wow! Now white people are apologists for themselves. It's a waste of time trying to deal with anyone that ignorant of his own language.

individual,

As you say, the riots have nothing to do with the death of that poor fellow; they are race riots, pure and simple - plus the opportunity to loot. I'm sure there are African-Americans who would feel the same way.

Paul's introduction of blame Trump; into the discussion is a red herring. We recognise his misplaced hatred of the American President

Those looting and torching businesses are being emotionally fuelled by Get Up and antifa a terrorist organization the hatred by the Democratic left.

This is not a demonstration against injustice, it is an attempt to destroy civil society. In one demonstration the Mexican flag was waved outside CNN. The Government of the State of Minneapolis is Democrat and the Police force is controlled by the Democrats. This is not the first time the Police in that State have murdered.

George Floyd was a Christian youth worker among African American youth, he was arrested for presenting a forged 20$ note, probably unknowingly. He worked in the night Club and from that would be known to Police. His family are speaking out against the riots happening, as they stated it is not justice for George but pain upon innocent businesses.

ttbn,
> White Americans do not behave in that way, as white people don't worldwide.
Yet historically they have - so what do you think's changed, and why has it not changed for black people?

Josephus,
> Those looting and torching businesses are being emotionally fuelled by Get Up and antifa
I haven't followed the situation closely enough to determine whether Antfa has any role in it, but I'm pretty sure that those looting and torching businesses in the USA are not in any way being encouraged by an organization that campaigns to get young people in Australia to be more politically active, and your mentioning it is the result of your bias against it rather than anything it has done.

Who was George Floyd?
http://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2020/may/george-floyd-ministry-houston-third-ward-church.html?fbclid=IwAR33bcocHf9L-m0Q-FwPL7eerYrKwJPXokGorBHMXqb3sMXsWtNj-SCHbns

Black Republicans do not loot and burn businesses.
http://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=650128805570007

From what I've seen on the TV news coverage
the looters are a mixed bag. I saw African-Americans,
Hispanics, and many white people. There was a close-up
of one white man bragging that all the furniture in
his apartment he had looted.

If you ever get to see films of the past riots in the
US - it's always been a mixed bag of people with
possibly the exception of the Watts riots which were in
a black area made up of predominantly African-Americans.

Strange though that you never see Asian people rioting.
What stood out the most in this recent spat of riots
in the films - which happened all over the country was
the presence of young white women roughly in their
early twenties. And opposing them were lines of black
and white police officers. They showed close-ups of their
faces on the screens.

In my opinion the riots appeared to be purely criminal
acts of looting - not protests. These people seemed intent
to thrash, steal, and destroy.

As far as President Trump is concerned - things are dire
in the US at the moment. The President's mode of operation
is covered by - "First you loot, then we shoot, then we
bring out the dogs."

Sad state of affairs indeed

Maybe the US should follow Australia and sign up to China's Belt and Road Initiative.

They can even have Andrew Forrest as part of the deal.

why has it not changed for black people?
Aidan,
I think the whole World would like to know that ! Perhaps it's got something to do with bleating victim being easier than exercising some personal responsibility & discipline ?
Yes, the Whites have exploited since time immemorial as has any other race whenever the opportunity arose. As a matter of fact many African & Asian Nations are under the thumb of their own people & I'm talking about 2020 not two hundred years ago !
Just look at the Slave trade, the Whites adapted to it after they witnessed it's practice in Africa !
One hardly ever hears of White & Asian girls being traded as Slaves and, yes in 2020. Every now & then we hear of some poor Thai or Philipino girls shocking treatments in some Arab nation but that's as far as it all goes about protecting them.
The sensible & sane mentality Blacks are found among the best of people anywhere. It's the Leftist indoctrinated basic mutts of any race that can't exercise self-control !
We have such Rent-a-Crowds here too !

Aidan,
My information is based in American News reports. The United States would designate Antifa, which is short for anti-fascists, as a terrorist organization, and Attorney General William Barr singled out the group in a statement denouncing the violence as domestic terrorism, announcing federal law enforcement would use its network of Joint Terrorism Task Forces to apprehend and charge those taking part in the violent confrontations.

Mr Opinion,

do you think OLO readers will ever tire of your humour about world events?

Do you honestly think free minded people are going to lie down and take it up the ... from China.

Get serious.

Chris,

Someone has to poke fun at the bad guys. If it's not me it will be someone else like Ricky Gervais or Dave Chapelle. So who do you prefer? Me, Ricky or Dave?

Actually there are some like Foxy, Phil, LOUDmouth, etc., who don't think I'm being funny at all. Foxy has me already booked into a psychiatric clinic forever! And Phil simply refuses to pass onto the Afterlife unless I promise to go first.

You can't please everyone Chris.

ok,

as long as you don't join the CCP, or start calling me comrade.

The knee on the neck arrest is practised by several States by Police and banned in others. The controversial knee-to-neck move, was used by the officer charged with killing George Floyd in Minneapolis. Seattle Police also use the knee on the neck arrests. Seattle politics as are Minneapolis are generally dominated by the liberal wing of the Democratic Party; in some local elections, Greens.

It is reported in some Media that intifa have been bussing in protesters to the violence against Police and causing destruction.

I've just read an interesting article on the web
that puts another slant onto things and gives another
perspective on the causes of what's happening in the US.

We're told that perhaps the closest thing to a common
cause can be summed up by one word - "injustice".

Justice seems to be the one word on about all the protesters
lips and written on the many placards they wave in the air.

This is a nation where 2.3 million people are locked up
in a system of corporatised incarceration funded by the
taxpayer.

This is a nation where the wealth gap between white and
black Americans hasn't changed in 60 years. It's where the
bottom 40% of Americans own just 0.3% of the wealth and
40 million are out of work.

American taxpayers bailed out the very Wall Street bankers
and traders who brought financial ruin upon them in 2008
only to see them hold parties and reap multi-million
dollar bonuses. Some of the looters and demonstrators
say they learned to loot from corporate America.

This is a nation that has such little faith in the system
that many Americans voted fro Trump in order to tear
the system down (Drain the Swamp). Therefore the seething
anger was already there - especially after 2 months of
lockdown - it was ripe to burst open. For many it just
needed a cause. The murder of the black man by the police
officer - gave it to them.

"Eat The Rich" scrawled in graffiti across smashed up
businesses seems to make that clear.

//So who do you prefer? Me, Ricky or Dave?//

Well definitely one of the latter two, since they are talented comedians who can grasp the difference between a telling a good joke and just dribbling shite all over the forum.

Foxy,

Could you put that into just a couple of sentences? How about just saying the riots are the result of ongoing social inequalities and class antagonisms in an America that has been marked by political, economic, social and cultural divisions that can be traced back to the post-independence period.

How's that? Is that what you're trying to say?

Toni Lavis,

You really are a killjoy!

Just for that you are now on the List!

Now we have Foxy trying to convince us that looting and burning businesses is a legitimate call for justice.

George Floyd's relatives are calling it injustice, as many black American businesses have been looted and burned to the ground. The peaceful protests might have started as a call for justice but the outcome is anarchy. Which is a further attempt to destroy the economy by uneducated thugs from the left.

//Just for that you are now on the List!//

Gosh, how awful. I'd be quaking in my boots, if it wasn't so sure that you'd be just as inept at whacking people as you are at being whacky.

Toni Lavis,

You sound nasty enough to be a lawyer.

Dear Josephus,

Who hates Trump? I don't. I think he is highly incompetent, immoral and not fit to lead the world's foremost super power. That doesn't mean I hate him at all.

The reason you use this language is because of your evident love for him. Your language and your use of superlatives like he has 'the highest IQ of any president' expresses your cult like adoration of the man. To you he has saviour qualities and an authoritarianism which elicit feelings of love from you. Therefore when someone speaks out against him you instinctively label that as hate.

Trump is a highly divisive leader whose toxic administration has certainly damaged America's standing in the world.

Will the USA get over it? Most certainly. However what it will have done is to consign people like you to deep irrelevancy. You have forever lost your ability to criticise any other leader for 'indiscretions' or 'moral failures' or even incompetence.

Josephus,

Go back and re-read my post and then try to understand
that the cause of what's happening in the US today is
the result of a nation having little faith in the
System - a system that has failed so many,
and the reason that many Americans voted
for Trump was to - "Drain The Swamp".

Their seething anger was already there - especially after
2 months of lock-down, as stated earlier - it was ripe
to burst open. For many it just needed a cause.

Again - "Eat The Rich"scrawled graffitti across
smashed businesses seems to make that clear.

The US is not the first country/nation in history to be wracked by widespread riots. It's usually a conflict between the haves and the have-nots and is the consequence of some particular cause/s that drive the have-nots to remonstrate about their grievances.

The State will regain control but the big question is can it put into place some sort of remedy to placate the rioters, preventing future disturbances arising from the same causes.

So what should America do?.

"Barr about to unmask all of Antifa’s communications with their media and political allies. Now you know why so many people are freaking out today.”

Then we'll find out what this is all about. It is indeed caused by Trump. He keeps winning and they keep trying to find new ways to defeat him.

the riots are the result of ongoing social inequalities and class antagonisms in an America that has been marked by political, economic, social and cultural divisions
Mr Opinion,
A hundred years ago you'd have been right but in 2020 your list of those problems is largely self-made by those bleating victim !

individual in the words of our beloved OxleyMoron: "Please explain."

African-Americans managed to get a half black President in Obama who said he was on their side. So enough of the inequality stuff. And, Obama was so 'good' that African Americans got behind Donald Trump, as did Hispanics, and benefited very nicely from Trump's much superior economic savvy.

The riots are racist based. They are just using the tragic, needless death of the murdered man as an excuse. The black racists are insulting that man and his family.

Of course they are.

Having a black man in handcuffs lying down unable to
get away with one police officer on his back and
another with his knee on his neck - is rather insulting.
We can all agree.

i agree with Mr Opinion.

No liberal democracy can go on alienating a growing proportion of its population.

Inequality in the US is one of the worst in world.

I am not advocating equality. I am talking about the many Americans who are forced to work merely to pay for rent and food.

Freedoms have personal responsibility and respects social values, and affords wealth creation. It is an understood system based on Christian virtues.

Anarchists have no value system just how their emotions rule. The goal of the anarchists thugs is to destroy Western economies and freedoms and work initiatives that create personal wealth and counter introduce communism; where they do not have to be responsible for their income.

Trump is the current representative of Western Christian values, is the reason he is targeted by the Leftist Media, celebrities, and represented as a fool and ignorant.

As far as Floyd type of murders, far more existed under Obama and Joe Biden in power than under Trump. While they were in power they failed to do anything about social justice.

2010 – Santa Cruz May Day riot, May 1, 250 rampage through downtown Santa Cruz attacking 18 businesses, causing an estimated $100,000 in damages. 1 arrested. Santa Cruz, California.
2010 – Oakland protest riot, November 5, Police made more than 150 arrests as a crowd broke windows and knocked down fences, protesting sentence of former BART officer in shooting of Oscar Grant on New Years Day 2009; see BART Police shooting of Oscar Grant. Oakland, California

2011 – Occupy Wall Street (Brooklyn Bridge protests). Demonstrators blocked the bridge and more than 700 people were arrested. New York, New York
2011 – Occupy Oakland Oakland protests riots. October. Protesters shattered windows, set fires, and plastered buildings with graffiti. Riot police fired heavy amounts of tear gas on the protesters.

2012 – Anaheim police shooting and protests, July 28. Violence erupted after multiple shootings in the neighborhood by police that included unarmed Manuel Diaz. 24 people were arrested.
2013 – Flatbush Riots, March 11, Riots in Brooklyn, New York after the death of Kimani Gray who was shot and killed by NYPD.

cont..

"Please explain."
Mr Opinion,
If you don't understand now then no explanation will get you to understand. How many non-Africans die in Police custody ? Are all non-Africans out rioting when one does get killed !
Many Africans are way more privileged than average non-Africans, why ? Because they don't act like the ones who partake in the riots including the non-africans there !
That's not just in the USA, it's like that anywhere you want to choose to look !
I just wouldn't have the resources to leave home & spend my time being an idiot on the streets !

2014 – Ferguson unrest, Ferguson and St. Louis, Missouri, August 10 and November 24. Following the shooting death of Michael Brown by a Ferguson police officer, protests erupt in the streets. Police respond with riot gear, tear gas, sound canons, police dogs, concussion grenades, rubber bullets, pepper balls, wooden bullets, beanbag rounds, tasers, pepper spray, and armored vehicles. Unrest occurred continuously for weeks in August, and sporadically through December, with nearly daily protests throughout the period and rioting following the non-indictment announcement on Nov 24. Unrest again occurred on the one year anniversary in August 2015, with dozens of arrests.
2014 – St. Louis, Missouri - October 8, police vehicle windows broken as rage at the killing of Vonderrit Myers Jr. Protests continued for days afterward, during the nearby and ongoing Ferguson Unrest.
2014 – New York, New York, and Berkeley, California – After prosecutors and a grand jury refused to indict a police officer in the death of Eric Garner, protests erupted in New York City and other cities.
2014 Oakland riots, November–December, A series of riots and civil disturbances that took place in Oakland and the surrounding area, in reaction to the events involving the Shooting of Michael Brown and later, the death of Eric Garner, Oakland, California
2014 – Berkeley, Missouri, December 23–24. Antonio Martin is shot to death by police in a St. Louis suburb nearby to Ferguson, leading to violent conflict with police, and looting.
2015 Baltimore protests, April 25–28. Days of protests break out following the death of Freddie Gray while in police custody. 34 people are arrested and 15 Officers injured after rioting and looting. Gray's funeral was held on April 27, followed by further protests and looting. Governor Hogan had preemptively activated the Maryland National Guard, while the Maryland State Police had activated at least 500 officers.
2015 – St. Louis, Missouri, August 19. Conflict with police following fatal shooting by St. Louis police officers of black teenager Mansur Ball-Bey leads to deployment of tear gas then burned car, buildings, and looting. Protests continue in subsequent days with tensions remaining high.

I've just listed the period under Obama and Biden where exactly the same riots took place, the rioters never blamed Obama during that period, yet they blame Trump now. He has given more Black employment in four years then Obama.

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/jobs-for-black-americans-created-by-president-trump

As promised, the Trump Administration has brought factories back from China and Mexico. Now African-Americans can help produce so many of the products once proudly made in America, such as automobiles, tiki torches, and assault rifles.

//The State will regain control but the big question is can it put into place some sort of remedy to placate the rioters, preventing future disturbances arising from the same causes.

So what should America do?//

I think a more interesting question is what will America do? Judging by the handling of the pandemic and their reluctance to implement gun control, it seems to me that America haven't really properly grasped the whole 'prevention is better than cure' thing. They seem to prefer throwing caution to the wind, letting the shite hit the fan, and then mopping up afterwards. It's bolder, more dramatic, louder and messier than the alternative... of course they love it.

So I don't think they'll end up doing anything really. It might seem like the sensible thing to do would be trying to prevent these sort of occurrences by training their police to not murder people, which most civilised countries seem to do an OK job of. It certainly seems it would be cheaper than having cities razed and having to roll out the National Guard - and we all know what a financial genius the Trumpenfuhrer is.

They'll quell the riots and it'll back to be business as usual.

I suggest that a selection of the looting videos be watched, plenty of whites grabbing other peoples property.

The rioters appear to be in the low thousands, the population of the US is in excess of the 1919 figure of 328.2 million.

The ant-fa (anti fascists) started out as right wing fanatics and
became so radical they moved so far right they came back as leftwingers
and completed the circle to mimic Hitler's Brown shirts.
So the ant-fa are fascists which is why they act like Brown shirts.
It has been suggested that the rate of criminality of blacks is
reflected in riots. The odd thing though is the high number of whites
in the demonstrations. It might be like here where some are almost
white yet they never have any "white" attitudes. It is fashionable.

Re slavery the Africans were the "recruiters" of slaves for thousands
of years.
The Arabs were the trade managers and middle men for the Romans.
With the invention of the steam engine slaves became too expensive
and the British led the way in banning slavery.
There is a lot more in history in that vein.

When the unarmed Australian Justine Lamont was gunned down by African Police officer Noor two years ago I don't seem to recall riots by non-Africans in the streets of US Cities ?

ttbn, you have no sympathy for George Floyd, or the tens of thousands of African Americans who have previously died at the hands of racists using a system designed to suppress a people from the very start. It began with the savage, brutal, often murderous exploration of black slaves in the American colonies. The state sanctioned brutality of police forces, America has 18,000 of them, towards people of colour continues to this day, it has never stopped. Hand in hand with the injustice of physical violence, goes economic oppression of the same people.

You may say "While the murderous cop who quite inhumanly put his boot on that man's neck deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail, as do his colleagues who stood by" said without sincerity. Like the good white racists apologist you are, you find reason for the needed actions of the white coppers, its all this "black racism, which is always lurking, waiting for an excuse to run amok and do a spot of looting." Look up what an apologist is, because you are the one trying to justify the actions of the white coppers with false argument. Then there is a another of your "What ifs" this nonsense; "Had the victim of police brutality been white, (HE WAS NOT) there would have been none of the mayhem that is now occurring. White Americans do not behave in that way, (MANY OF THE MINORITY VIOLENT BURNERS AND LOOTER WERE WHITE) as white people don't worldwide (RUBBISH). Just one of the many differences between the races that renegade whites deny in their obsession with false racial equivalence." Your obsession with white superiority is on the record. As a once admitted member of a far right Australian political party, now defunct, your forum attitude to people of colour is evident. Maybe you have joined another ratbag party from the far right, and are not saying this time.

//the population of the US is in excess of the 1919 figure of 328.2 million.//

Well if they had that many in 1919, by now they should be near a billion or so, right?

seriously, not hard to find US population 1919.

July 1, 1919 104,514,000 1,306,000 1.26
July 1, 1918 103,208,000 -60,000 -0.06
July 1, 1917 103,268,000 1,307,000 1.27
July 1, 1916 101,961,000 1,415,000 1.40
July 1, 1915 100,546,000 1,435,000 1.44
July 1, 1914 99,111,000 1,886,000 1.92
July 1, 1913 97,225,000 1,890,000 1.96
July 1, 1912 95,335,000 1,472,000 1.56
July 1, 1911 93,863,000 1,456,000 1.56
July 1, 1910 92,407,000 1,917,000 2.10

https://www.census.gov/population/estimates/nation/popclockest.txt

Look what a typo can do!!

I thought it was a typo given your quality, but could not help myself.

cheers.

I actually went of Toni's last post.

Watched Stan Grant giving an interview/annalists of the US situation on the ABC today.

Stan Grant’s analysis of the US riots – tension has been building for centuries | ABC News.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm5xLiZvFJM

Paul1405,
If you're so against racism, why do you so insidiously promote It ?

Stan Grant is ok as a journalist, but I also find him a bit all over the place.

He critiques both the US and China at times, but he never has a structure within his opinions that make sense of the madness.

To me, that is not good enough.

Just my humble opinion.

Issy, you of all people can't claim "typo". You told me to get that program of yours 'Grumblebum' did you not say; (how) it must be wonderful to be perfect and odour free, or was that John Candy? No matter, its another PORKY AWARD (third class with cross and bar) for you. Your 27th this year, and we are not half way yet.

Tell me Indy, how do I promote racism? By saying;

The riots that have broken out all over the US highlight black racism, which is always lurking,
ttbn,
My thoughts exactly, same as here just not as radical due to lack of numbers !

According to you rioting is simply a black thing, they are at home in their easy chairs; waiting for an excuse to run amok.

Typical racists opinion!

Dear Paul,

Under Trump and his administration the only big winners
have been - Wall Street, private persons, oil industry,
Trump's own family. A recent Gallup poll has found
that the majority of Americans now believe that Trump
does not keep his promises and is unable to
effectively manage his government.

The man has revealed that his priorities are benefiting
corporations, and the wealthiest few at the expense of
everyone else. His actions and those of his administration
have been characterized by broken promises, gross conflict
of interest, stark erosion of transparency, ethics, and
other democratic norms.

No wonder people are rioting.

Dear Josephus,

You lament, wail, and gnash your teeth over the deep injustices inflicted on your president;

“I've just listed the period under Obama and Biden where exactly the same riots took place, the rioters never blamed Obama during that period, yet they blame Trump now.”

What an absolute crock.

Obama repeatedly de-escalated the unrest instead of inflaming it like Trump.

And then you have the temerity to claim; “He has given more Black employment in four years then Obama.” Rubbish. There were more Black jobs created under Obama.

From Forbes this year;

“Trump continually says that, “the U.S. is experiencing the best economy ever.” This is obvious gaslighting since the new results show that President Trump’s best year of job growth was 2.314 million in 2018 (the first year of the tax cut) but it falls short of any of Obama’s last three years.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2020/02/07/obamas-last-three-years-of-job-growth-all-beat-trumps-best-year/#1d4d4a256ba6

Any time you would like to de-program yourself from the Trump cult feel free to reach out. I'm there for you mate.

All this virtue signalliing and siding with the blacks is a waste of time if you think that they will appreciate it. We all look the same to them. If they come rioting around you one day, you will fare no better than the people you call racist, you poor silly saps.

Typical racists opinion!
Paul1405,
I see you as the most insidious poster on OLO, that's my only way to describe you after reading your posts !
Have you ever though about exploring integrity as a change from opportunistic loophole searches ?
Or, are you afraid you might find material that might expose your agenda ?

Indy, oh dear, I don't give a rats as to what you think, or don't think. Your claim that I promote racism is nonsense. It coming from a far right winger, nothing to concern me at all.

Trump got criticism when he said something simikar to this;
You loot and we will shoot !
Being shot for looting is a very old custom.
During the war if someone looted a bombed house or building you risked
being shot on sight.
It is not unreasonable for the police to shoot a mob looting shops.

Porky,

Even you should know that SpellCheck etc., does not correct typos when they are an error of fact and not of grammar/spelling.
Have another try.

I've been looking for the videos of the riots after the black Minneapolis policeman murdered Justine Damond, but they seem to have disappeared.

.

To all and sundry,

.

I think Foxy’s explanation of “injustice” on page 4 of this thread is closer to the truth than most.

The US is the undisputed leader of the “free world” and China, which is not a member, is its chief rival.

Two governing systems confront each other via these two world leaders : representative democracy and Chinese communism. Neither system is perfect, but one may ask which of the two provides more justice for its people ? The US with its population of 331 million or China with its population of 1,440 million ?

Perhaps we could enlarge the question to include not only justice, but also freedom and security. Which of the two governing systems is the most advantageous, on an overall basis, for its people ?

Since 2000, the United States Census Bureau officially recognizes 6 ethnic groups that make up the US population. Whereas, there are over 56 ethnic groups that are native to China.

The US governing system is said to be democratic, but is it really ? In 2016, Hilary Clinton won the popular vote by a margin of 2.9 million in the presidential election, but the electoral college decided Donald Trump would be president instead.

Also, representative democracy is a hybrid political system that combines characteristics of both democracy and oligarchy. Party candidates are democratically elected by the “demos” (people) to be their representatives, but they continue to owe allegiance to their political parties and are held to toe the party line at the risk of exclusion.

Party line is often influenced by the economic elite and special interest groups operating behind the scenes, when it is not simply promoting its own agenda. The “vox populi” is rarely audible and usually disregarded between elections. As a result, representative democracy tends to operate more as an oligarchy than as a democracy.

Technically, that’s not very different from the communist party oligarchy in China.

But Americans are still better-off, provided they are among the wealthier 10% of the 60.4% of the “White alone, not Hispanic or Latino” census category.

.

Banjo,
The biggest difference is that the USA has the rule of law, whereas the Chinese judiciary ignore China's laws and instead enforce the will of their leaders.

Given the choice between freedom and democracy, and three square meals a day I know what I would choose. Its unreasonable to compare China and America and their respective peoples economic and political positions. The backgrounds and makeup of both countries are completely different, and will fail any comparison test. Freedom and democracy goes well with a full belly and a nice house and car, it doesn't relieve hunger, it wont provide shelter, and it certainly wont give you a reasonable mode of transport. With not having this much coveted freedom and democracy can anyone explain exactly what the vast majority of Chinese people are missing out on?

No, there are huge differences between China and the US, and one can easily make valid comparisons between authoritarianism and democracy to to show why the latter will always prove superior.

Bl..dy hell, that is a no brainer.

If the US riots were sponsored by the Republican right wing, there would be shootings in the street. Nobody has been shot.

That proves to me, the riots are a concoction of the Democrats, and a ore-election stunt.
Trump is correct to blame them.

Dan

Maybe instead of trying to compare apples to house bricks. How about comparing two similar countries, China and India. They have similar populations, simmilar location and size, with about 70 years of operating their political systems. China with an authoritarian regime, India with its democratic regime. Both began from a very low base in 47 India, and 49 China. How do things stack up today for Mr and Mrs Average in both countries today. Presumably the Indians have their freedom and democracy and the Chinese have full bellies. I don't believe the average Chinese loses much sleep worrying about the countries governorship, nor does the average Indian, much more mundane things to worry about for both of them.

Really, china still has 600 million earning less than $US5.50 per day.

Many Chinese are hardly booming, while the a.. lickers in the CCP party on.

As I said, I've been looking for the videos of the riots after the black Minneapolis policeman murdered Justine Damond, but they seem to have disappeared.

Can anyone remember them, I wonder where they went?

Chris,

That is terrible. All those hundreds of millions of Chinese only earning $5.5 a day.

No, it's just not on!

Australia can bring about 40 million of them here where they can earn much more. It's a multicultural gesture. We can billet them at Foxy's and LOUDmouth's homes, where they can all join hands and sing Kumbaya.

Dan, has it ever occurred to you that not all events in the USA are instigated by the political parties?

Is Mise

I've wondered what has happened to the Minneapolis cop who murdered the Australian woman. Of course, she was white, and all the mouth-foamers on OLO are interested only in black people and what nasty white people do to black people. As you say, the woman's murder wasn't seen by African-Americans as a chance for rioting and looting. There wasn't a proportionate reaction from white people either. We we white people deserve everything we get apparently.

Mr O,

Your concern about billeting migrants is commendable but
unnecessary.
The Morrison government has on its agenda a plan
to settle migrants in regional Australia - outside
the big cities like Sydney and Melbourne.

As for singing Kumbaya? Perhaps "We are One but We are
Many," would be more appropriate. Or even Aretha Franklin's
"Respect," might go over well.

Then you could also be taught the words.

There's a good chap.

" China and India. They have similar populations, simmilar location and size, with about 70 years of operating their political systems. China with an authoritarian regime, India with its democratic regime."

Well democracy v. authoritarianism isn't the issue. Its capitalism v. socialism that matters. When China was totalitarian AND socialist, it was and remained poor. Only after it rejected socialism and introduced a market economy did it start to somewhat prosper. Equally India for most of the past 70 years was socialist and stagnant, as all socialist societies are. Only recently has India begun to allow the market to work, and the results are stupendous.

Now capitalism can operate in a totalitarian environment for a time as we've seen in China. The issue is, can the leader's thirst for power be restrained indefinitely to allow the market to operate. What's happening in HK now suggests...no.

If you truly want to compare the systems try these....North Korea v South Korea; West Germany v. East Germany.

The rioters and looters, using the death of one person as an excuse for behaviour that comes naturally to them, have now caused the deaths of another four people.

In Australia, totally unconnected (with reality) people have decided to hold a protest in Sydney, because 'it is just the same here with Aborigines as it is in the US'. No wonder China thinks that the West will be a pushover.

ttbn,

It's not the West that China sees as a pushover. It's people like you.

Paul,

It's arguable that India may be more socialist than China, not that either one is all that socialist. Certainly China is far more repressive and chauvinist and - Mhaze - more capitalist.

Interesting logic, Paul: Most people in China are comfortable, is that what you're suggesting ? Perhaps so: but perhaps at the cost to the Tibetans, Uighurs, Kazakhs and other minority groups, and to the millions in the labour camps. On the same logic, the US justified the slavery of a minority for the comfort and benefit of a minority of the dominant majority. I've seen current numbers for labour-prisoners in China which were/are higher than those of slaves in the US.

But eventually, as we're seeing, the slaves and their descendants revolt.

Joe

Foxy,

Respect? I'm too busy working out what makes the world tick to worry about respect. But thanks for the offer anyway.

Yes, we can send millions of migrants to the country. But where will they live, where will they work, where will their kids go to school, and where will they find hospitals? No, they definitely must be settled in the cities so that large corporations can make billions out of residential development and selling consumer services.

"Is The United States About To Implode?"

No.

For a start remember that these riots aren't happening in the whole of the US but in a small subsection. That subsection is almost entirely Democrat run cities in Democrat run states.

Whatismore, the rioters are an extremely small subsection of their city's population. So a small minority of people in a small minority of cities in a small minority of states.

And these aren't representative of the general populace. IF you want to see the real America, read this....http://ricochet.com/763173/defining-america/

In the main this is the last gasps of the left's attempts at reversing the 2016 election and a blatant attempt to stop the loss of black voters to Trump.

But the real kicker here was Trump's announcement that Antifa will be designated a terrorist group...about bloody time. That means that the full force of federal law enforcement can and will be deployed against these Marxist revolutionaries.

Its already suggested that the DOJ/FBI have significant intel on the money, reporters and politicians behind this violence and this will be unleashed to bring the attempted insurrections to a halt.

To see the real America, apart from the link above ponder this ...http://www.spacex.com/launches/ . Only in America.

Mr O,

The following link might help clarify things for you
regarding the Prime Minister's government plans for
Australia's future population and our conjested
cities:

http://www.pm.gov.au/media/plan-australias-future-population

You're welcome.

The demonstration facts about Republican Blacks:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/s-not-going-bring-my-brother-back-george-floyd-s-n1221306?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR37xFaw6qGaMDmHp5VLDbf74PuVZ4p3qF3_4yQdVI0LaLqSmHZWlupWo_Q

http://www.facebook.com/thehodgetwins/videos/206693363652399/?t=57

What Democratic Obama says to rioters!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/1/obama-says-inspiring-protesters-deserve-nations-re/?fbclid=IwAR1ySHv35qRE

Mhaze,

You might be onto something: talking about vicious dogs and shooting, yes, that should bring out the Black voters, those with long memories, in droves.

22 weeks until the next election :). I'm sure many of those Black voters can't wait.

Joe

loudmouth2,
If looters and people torching businesses are hounded by savage dogs and shot and arrested for criminal activities, they are not civilised and how would you bring them to order?

White supremist encourages criminal violence against businesses.

http://www.facebook.com/Breitbart/photos/a.10159587164165354/10165395963305354/?type=3&eid=ARA_i-Ku5d5lmSP1s3jK7nMI91dLQO8SKVjAflBQ2Zh5WxmyQ2Ru5PgkKjkr_eEIfjqO3TlCPhoqb6sD&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARBA1OFoM3EV7Z66eaTVbFyb-H3OTpc_HA0qQ_V6iTNyzJEMBXBYSogLvlnX_PRcRhFNBCBte020kZJRDu5DtKbmw1Ov95gff0JYA074ybufY0DZvkEr8dd5KwfFORQjwKC1dE4ovKwhJdohfnjP5j20kAgbd3tatkf1sFRYP3pNmerrVMKOfXQZIz0ffFSbXNxYJkdtAkM8ULaqk34e7TKRfPDNtTHgUD2zLZz6GXDL0KTJWoKBOR3NerI6fU-v-iUNtZOosfLy5HgYMo_8or0nehsC27FkbZwJkaeLcqybnXEXAOGA7ZBop7Av4Rw9TpjNU8737Mbipz_CbKnNTtK33vLMd8rRGzl4c14kKZGb&__tn__=EEHH-R

Atlanta, Seattle, Los Angeles, Chicago,
Philadelphia, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Denver,
Salt Lake City, Nashville, Minneapolis,
Miami, among others have imposed curfews as they
brace for more unrest. It can't be described as
"only a few cities," when it's raging across the
entire country.

When the Governors of Minnesota, Georgia, Ohio, Washington,
Kentucky have mobilized their state National Guards.

When President Trump and the Pentagon have said they
stand to provide Federal Forces to Minnesota if
requested to quell unrest. This is pretty serious
stuff.

Also thousands protest in London in solidarity with US
demonstrators - thousands of people gathered in London's
Trafalgar Square on Sunday waving placards and chanting
in solidarity with protestors in the US angry over the
police killings and wider racial discrimination.

We have friends who live in Los Angeles - they tell us that
their city is under curfew. Even areas like Beverley Hills
and West Hollywood are under threat. As is Santa Monica -
totally unbelievable - and scary.

obviously people are pig headed ignorant of what has happened in South Africa since the tribes have taken over. Thankfully many blacks like Candice Owens has woken up to the complete failure of socialist (white liberals) to engage the services of violent blacks and antifa to do their bidding. Oh well we never learn. The likes of Paul and other regressives are as much part of the problem as the thugs causing chaos.

Aidan.

I only see things in black and white. The KISS theory steers my perceptions.

So how do you explain that a crowd of Democrats burn down a police station, and the police run away?

You think that's not political?

Dan

And further Aidan.

That picture that appeared on the news feed yesterday of a hooded Amazon, proudly carrying a cheese cake looted from a factory where people actually work for a living and pay their taxes, wasn't Hillary Clinton?

Dan.

The current rioting and looting has led President Trump to talk about designating Antifa a terrorist organisation. About time. Antifa claims to be fighting fascism, but it is fascist itself, wanting to abolish democracy, capitalism, liberalism and all the other existing institutions in favour of a Marxist-Leninist state.

Foxy,

Thanks, but it didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. Plus it is pre-Wuhan virus pandemic stuff and will probably be turned on its head by Morrison who doesn't have any money to be throwing around unless he wants to sign up to China's Belt and Road Initiative.

Here's a recent Reuters article on economy and migrants in Australia that might interest you:

http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2020/05/turnbulls-secret-belt-road-mou-with-communist-china.html

I think it shows that migrants coming here over the past thirty years are only interested in jobs and money. I don't get the impression that migrants give two hoots for your great Australian oneness and multicultural ideologies. I doubt there are really too many migrants who want to join hands with you and start singing Kumbaya.

It's jobs and money. That's all they're here for. Sorry about the bad news but you had to find out sooner or later..

OoooPS ......... wrong article. It must be on my other computer. I send it to you later.

Foxy,

Here's that Reuters article:

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/australias-stalled-migrant-boom-derails-golden-economic-run/ar-BB14QV7J?ocid=spartanntp

Mr O,

I'm sure that you can't speak on behalf of all
migrants who come here. It sounds to me that
perhaps you should get out more and mix in the
communities. The migrants that I've come across
have come here to make a better life for
themselves and their families. They work hard,
educate and raise their children and contribute
to this nation. They are part of the rich tapestry
that forms this country. And their communities
are in the main - self-sufficient.

Australia would be all the poorer without them.
Nobody wants to go back to the cultural backwater
it once was.

Dictator Donald from the bunker; He is calling out the storm troopers, DD has declared 'The American League of Patriotic Ladies' a terrorist organisation and issued orders that his citizens militia shoot those commo women on site. DD has made Gregory and Travis McMichael, special negotiators to take control of the situation with black rioters, explain where they are going wrong, and calm things down.

The forums ratbag racists are the ones frothing at the mouth, blaming everyone and everybody for the total chaos of America. Who would want to be the average American today?

If they vote for that ....wit again, then you can write off America.

How could any sane person defend him.

the US badly needs sensible leadership rather than an ego maniac prepared to do anything to be re-elected.

The Republicans should take a stand against him.

Apparently he is now turning on Fox News

On Thursday afternoon, President Donald Trump said the quiet part loud in a tweet where he attacked Fox News for “doing nothing to help Republicans, and me, get re-elected on November 3rd.” Hours later, the network gave him a new thing to get angry about.

Fox’s latest poll finds Trump trailing presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden by a robust 8 points nationwide. It’s enough to put Biden ahead even considering the 3-point margin of error, and a significant swing from last month, when Fox’s polling had the race tied.

Trump is not going to be happy that Fox News didn’t rig their new poll for him pic.twitter.com/e93GjPbRtG
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) May 21, 2020
Trump’s eroding standing versus Biden in the poll of 1,207 registered voters conducted May 17 to 20 correlates with a decline in approval of his handling of the coronavirus, which according to the Fox poll stands at 43 percent, an 8 percent decrease from March and April. A separate ABC News/Ipsos poll out Friday morning finds approval of Trump’s handling of the coronavirus hitting a new low of 39 percent.

As I’ve written, Trump has a long history of erupting at Fox News for not rigging polls in his favor. (For all the network’s Trump-friendly tilt on TV, its polls are high-quality; FiveThirtyEight gives Fox News polling an A- rating.) While he didn’t directly address the new Fox poll on Thursday evening, Trump indirectly hit back at it by tweeting outdated polls and out-of-context data points in an effort to portray himself as more popular than he really is.
https://www.vox.com/2020/5/22/21267428/fox-news-poll-biden-trump

Foxy,

So you agree, they come here for two things: jobs and money. In fact a lot of the money they make here is remitted to their homeland.

The elites in Australia have pushed multiculturalism for their own purpose to have a population driven economy from which they can get rich and gain social preponderance.

People like you have been duped into supporting the system because it appeals to your sense of altruism but you are blind to those at the top who are sucking the country dry. I'm sorry to be the one that has to tell you this but someone has to do it.

Anyway, buckle up because it is all Belt and Road for you happy little Victorians from here on in. Enjoy the ride!

Chris,

I'm with you on that. I will be dumbfounded if Trump is re-elected. I think his goose is well and truly cooked.

I think the only reason he has called the country to arms against the rioters is simply because he wants to be a president like Washington, Lincoln, or Roosevelt. He wants to be a Hero! His childhood dream most probably.

Trump claims he is a patriot.

He is indeed a fascist, no better than Putin and Xi.

Mr O,

Many migrants aren't able to return to their homelands.
And therefore this is the only homeland that they
and their children will make their own.

As for jobs and money? That is something we all need
because life happens - With it we can invest in so many
other things. Jobs and money are simply means to an end.
Always has been. And lucky are those of us who are able
to have them.

Your fixation with China? You need to
diversify - you're becoming a bore -
obsessive and one-eyed.

"If they vote for that ....wit again, then you can write off America."

A journalist (die-hard Democrat, but then aren't they all!!) recently wrote something along the lines that even if they found evidence of Biden boiling and eating babies, she'd still vote for him.

I guess we can put Mr Lewis in the same camp.

"Fox’s latest poll finds Trump trailing presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden..."

After Trump 2016, Brexit and Morrison 2019, do people still believe in polls? Probably only when they tell them what they want to hear.

The fact is this is a two horse race. Trump looses, Biden wins.

Biden wins, antifa wins.
Biden wins, Xi wins.
Biden wins, Iran wins.
Biden wins, democracy looses.
Biden wins, fly-over America looses.
Biden wins, the swamp wins.

______________________________________________________________

I see Paul is devolving into fairy-tales now. Probably a good idea. When you make up your own story, you can't be wrong. Its only when Paul tries to do 'facts' that he ends up in deep do-do.

Mhaze,

A bit hysterical :)

Not everybody who can't stand Trumpf is a secret member of the CCP: common sense is an exceedingly broad church. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the broadest church in the world :)

Of course Trumpf is going to blame the piss-ants of Antifa for everything, that's how his mind 'works' (if I can stretch the meaning of that word to breaking point).

Joe

PM Scott Morrison is demanding an investigation into an American police assault on an Australian Channel 7 reporter and cameraman. Clearly identified as "media", reporter Amelia Brace and cameraman Tim Myers were assaulted by police in an unprovoked attack during their coverage of riots near the White House in Washington on Tuesday morning. While live on air, Myers was struck in the chest by a riot shield and Brace was clubbed with a police baton. A clear act of police brutality, the Australian Embassy in Washington has checked on the pairs well being, and is also investigating the unprovoked assault. Australians should be warned not to travel to this undeclared war zone that is as dangerous as America has made Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria.

If the American virus don't get ya, their guns will!

has it ever occurred to you that not all events in the USA are instigated by the political parties?
Aidan,
We know, the riots & looting for example are instigated by hordes of racists exploiting the deplorable act of a racist from the other side.

.

Dear Aidan,

.

You wrote :

« The biggest difference is that the USA has the rule of law, whereas the Chinese judiciary ignore China's laws and instead enforce the will of their leaders »
.

A nation of 1,440 million people spread across a territory about the same size as the US (with a population of 331 million) would probably be impossible to govern if it were to enforce strict respect of individual human rights. The same applies to India, the world’s second-largest nation, with its population of 1,380 million people.

Both countries have authoritarian governments, and both apply the death penalty.

India, nevertheless, has the advantage of having inherited the British democratic political system. Its common law judicial system has a history dating back to the 1860s. It also has a corps of law professionals trained in British universities.

The US and UK democratic political and legal systems are pretty much the same for all intents and purposes – both have integrated self-control mechanisms (“checks and balances”) – except in one important domain : the nomination of supreme court judges. In the US it is highly political. In the UK it is not (formal procedure for constitution of an ad hoc “selection commission”).

In the US, the nine-member Supreme Court is the third branch of the federal government and its decisions have a profound impact on American society. It is often the final word on highly contentious laws, disputes between state and federal governments, and final appeals to stay executions.

Under Article 2 of the constitution, the president has the power to nominate judges. There is no clear explanation as to how or why this came about.

Candidates must be approved by the senate. They do not have to meet any qualifications and serve lifetime terms - a contentious topic for many. That is why replacing a judge is one of the most consequential decisions of the president.

It’s not surprising that every nomination is a highly politicised affair.

Trump’s nominations of notoriously conservative judges will have a major lasting effect on future American law.

.

.

Dear Chris Lewis,

.

You wrote :

« Really, china still has 600 million earning less than $US5.50 per day. Many Chinese are hardly booming, while the a.. lickers in the CCP party on »
.

Yes, it’s pretty shocking, Chris. I remember watching from the window in the apartment where I was staying in Beijing, bare-footed Chinese labourers erecting a high-rise building, climbing up bamboo scaffolding that they mounted like Lego as they progressed from floor to floor. They worked day and night under spotlights, relaying each other, sleeping and eating on the site until it was finished. They were poor peasants from the provinces who migrated to Beijing to find work and send their meagre pay back to their families. I guess the ones I saw were the lucky ones.

In the US, the official poverty rate was 12.3%, based on the Census Bureau’s 2017 estimates. That year, an estimated 39.7 million Americans lived in poverty according to the official measure. But according to a supplemental poverty measure, the rate was 13.9%.

The official measure is based on data from the Current Population Survey Annual Social and Economic Supplement. The survey is sent to U.S. households, so the poverty estimates do not include those who are homeless. The sample also excludes military personnel who do not live with at least one civilian adult, as well as incarcerated adults.

According to the Census Bureau, 18.5 million people reported deep poverty, which means a household income below 50 percent of their 2017 poverty threshold. These individuals represented an estimated 5.7 percent of all Americans and 46.7 percent of those in poverty.

Trajically, World-wide poverty rates are expected to rise by 1.9% to 3% due to the coronavirus pandemic according to the International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI) :

http://www.ifpri.org/blog/how-much-will-global-poverty-increase-because-covid-19

And just as you observe for the Chinese, many Americans are hardly booming, while, today, despite the worst stock market crash since the 2008 financial crisis, the 20 richest Americans are still worth nearly $1 trillion combined :

http://www.forbes.com/sites/hayleycuccinello/2020/04/07/the-20-richest-american-billionaires-2020/#33eaeb1a1aeb

.

Your claim that I promote racism is nonsense.
Paul1405,
Is it really ?

Banjo, I agree.

on my visit to New York, I spoke to some locals who told me just how hard it is for them to get ahead.

I feel very sorry for low skilled workers in the US.

We are so lucky to be in Australia in so many ways, but times are also tougher for a growing minority here.

However, I still have faith in liberal democracy as the political system most capable in terms of potential to get the economic-social policy mix right.

I hope that make sense, and explains my perspective (and sometimes contradictions).

COVID-19 and race riots are about the only thing that might've cost Trump the election, and what do we get?

When you find out that pallets of bricks were delivered on the streets into many cities and towns prior to the uprising you'll realise this was planned.
I remember watching a video of hundreds of US military vehicles headed by rail into Chicago 2 months ago, when they should've been going the other way.

Wait for the second wave in September or October, prior to the election.
All this designed to look random when planned, and all designed to put Trump under the pump and make him look inept, which he is but democrats had no chance of winning previously prior to Covid-19 and race riots.

People attack globalisation, but I think that issue is overstated beyond the reality that most of the gain when to authoritarian China from a developing world perspective.

IMO, the real problem is from govts and societies not acting to ensure the right distribution in terms of getting the policy mix right.

Unfortunately, the US, which has had a huge gain in GDP in recent decades, has adopted polices which have worsened inequality to a much greater extent that other liberal democracies, including Sweden and Australia.

Another thing, don't write off the USA yet.

There are still many important remnants of democracy, including its population and an active press, which will ensure that authoritarianism does not win out in the USA.

Trump would like to rule like Putin and Xi, but I doubt he ever could.

American Radio:
http://www.glennbeck.com/radio/whos-spurring-the-riots-is-the-far-left-antifa-to-blame-for-violence-looting-destruction

From the evidence it is bussed in antifa who is causing the looting, destruction and fires in wealthy neighbourhoods blocking fire trucks as children burn to death in burning homes. Watch the link above pull down page to video. All this is done by the left to destroy President Trumps reelection; Joe Biden was seen talking to them assuring when he get in he will change all this. However he's had the opportunity before. As is done by antifa in Australia at aboriginal protests, and Warringah

Demented Joe Biden can suck up to the thugs and make as many promises as he likes. However, he is white, which makes him the enemy of the people he is sucking up to. The riots are all about race and hatred of white people in particular. Nothing to do with disadvantage, someone's death - it's race hatred, black hatred of the white race.

Trump will be re-elected, nothing surer.

My god, there are some ratbags on this thread.

Individual: so to protest against the murder of a Black man is racist ?

AC: so the US military planned against this murder two months ago ?

Antifa are a tiny bunch of piss-ants - certainly they're doing what they can to stir up protestors, who are mostly sensible enough to ignore them. But the broad Church of Sensible People are doing the human thing and defending the rights of people to live together in peace, without a copper's boot on their necks.

Pallet-loads of bricks are not uncommon anywhere where building may be going on.

It must be a bastard to be a big Black man - maybe it always has been - when you have to be looking over your shoulder all the time for some groups of thugs or coppers out to get you. And no, I don't think that's being paranoid. Being big and Black in a white and racist society must mean to be in constant danger.

Joe

Joe,

Yes there are ratbags here, and you are one of them. "White racist society" What a load of tosh!

LM wrote:

"Not everybody who can't stand Trumpf is a secret member of the CCP:"

Well of course I never said, suggested, intimate nor implied that...but, heh, what's the truth got to do with?

Speaking of hysterical...."He [Trump] is indeed a fascist, no better than Putin and Xi."

Now THAT'S hysterical both in the clinical and non-clinical senses of the word.

Re relative poverty...currently the poverty threshold for a family in the US is $US26000 ie below that income level means you are poor. (Bare in mind that excludes social welfare like food stamps, medical aid etc). A person on that income in China would be in the upper 30%.

You can't just compare poverty lines between countries.

"Antifa are a tiny bunch of piss-ants"....evidence?

ttbn, have a look at the video I posted. it is not black people looting and destroying businesses and lighting fires, it is white leftist extremists. Trump is all over this, but the Democratic media want you to believe it is about "Black Lives Matter" anger. They are bussed in mainly white Thugs, using the slogan.

Mhaze,

Pity I never wrote anything about Trumpf or others being fascist. Verging on, maybe.

Mind you, yes, I would be the first to agree - given their policies against minorities - that the CCP leadership has been fascist for some time, under the thin guise (for the guidance of idiots) of being socialist.

As for Putin, yes, he dips into the fascist playbook every so often with his murder of opponents, but he comes from a long totalitarian tradition going back through the tsarist times to the Mongols, and coming up through the old CPSU and Stalin.

No, Trumpf is not fascist - opportunist, yes. Utterly unprincipled, yes. Narcissistic, immature, half-witted, yes. But we haven't seen his full-on fascist side, yet.

Joe

//"Antifa are a tiny bunch of piss-ants"....evidence?//

Do your own posts count as evidence?

//Whatismore, the rioters are an extremely small subsection of their city's population. So a small minority of people in a small minority of cities in a small minority of states.//

And I doubt that all the rioters are part of Antifa, or politically aware enough to know and care who Antifa are. I think there's probably quite a few who are just there for the looting and not that politically motivated.

//When you find out that pallets of bricks were delivered on the streets into many cities and towns prior to the uprising you'll realise this was planned.//

//From the evidence it is bussed in antifa who is causing the looting, destruction and fires in wealthy neighbourhoods blocking fire trucks as children burn to death in burning homes.//

From the people who brought you fake moon landings, 9/11 was an inside job, and vaccines give you autism, comes a new masterpiece: the riots are all just a Democrat conspiracy. A Tin-Foil Beanie production. Rated LS for laughably stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGAAhzreGWw

"From the people who brought you fake moon landings, 9/11 was an inside job, and vaccines give you autism, comes a new masterpiece: the riots are all just a Democrat conspiracy. A Tin-Foil Beanie production. Rated LS for laughably stupid".

Concur.

Josephus,

I'm sure there is more than one video showing what the person who took it wanted to depict. All those I've seen show blacks doing the looting, and they were produced by mainstream TV stations. I'm also sure that most of the people, black or white, living in the US cities involved were either at home or working. The only people we can speak about are those who are actually out on the streets, and they are mainly blacks. Antifa thugs, too cowardly to show themselves, wear masks, black clothing and gloves so we don't know what colour they are. There are females among them, evidenced by the saggy tits under the tshirts.

This violence in America just reinforces the fact that races should not be mixed. Studies show that, contrary to politician's fairy tales, ethnic diversity is second only to lack of democracy in predicting civil wars. Diversity drives people apart. (McPherson, M; Smith-Lovin et al). America has fought one civil war with race being a major factor.

As I explained the anti-far are Fascists. They started as moderate
right wingers and kept moving right until they came up on the other
side, just like the sun coming up in the morning, as full blown
Nazis with everything except brown shirts and Adolf.

The so called moderate demonstrators are really just stupid teenagers
and twenty somethings that are stupid enough not to realise they have
made their point weeks ago and gone home.
All they are doing now is annoying any sensible citizen and
denigrating the blacks.

The big point the demos are making is that the blacks are disadvantaged.
Well, all through history that has been so. Even where they occupied
a whole very rich continent all to themselves they were unable to
get much beyond a basic sustenance lifestyle while the rest of the
world developed complex civilisations, eg Chinese, Egyptian, Greek,
Roman, Indian and Persian empires.
Right up until the European colinisers arrived they were the world's slaves.
Just in case you think Europeans were not slaves right up till the
18th century many Europeans, including British and Icelanders were
taken as slaves by Arab Slave Traders numbering from Roman times
over one million people and were a major factor in the collapse of
the Roman empire. (Barbary Coast Pirates).

After the Europeans took over most of the African continent they did
not change the normal arrangement until Europeans invented the steam
engine and mechanised agriculture and so made slaves obsolete.
Only then did those that knew slavery was wrong were able to convince
their governments to ban it.
They have to work hard to overcome that history.

I know we have the bolt haters here, but listen to the facts:
How the ABC incite violence!

http://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6161057535001?fbclid=IwAR03eXz9gbIqtiyBIpJ7FVxZNubpedYf7oyffUKwM_3cl-Y9eLC_l6XpCZU

The New York Times tells us that Derek Chauvin was
by no means the first white police officer to
gratuitously brutalize an African American. But
sadly he embodies something essential about Trumpism.
It's us - versus them.

That's the poison ethos at the heart of police brutality
and it is the septic core of the 45th Us President's
philosophy.

Neither a toxic cop nor Donald Trump sees himself as a
servant of ALL the people they're sworn to protect. They
are solely servants of their own. Everyone else is the
enemy.

From the very beginning the police have received a lot of
perverse messages from their President - encouraging them to
ëmbrace the bitter angels of their nature".

He's threatened "the most vicious dogs and weapons" on
crowds outside the White House.

The death of an African American cruelly singled out for
asphyxiation in the street is a potent symbol of the
obscene inequality and racial hostility of this moment
in history with the toxic police officer as Trump's
smirking and pitiless proxy.

African-Americans and many whites, as well as decent
police officers, were so enraged that they poured out
to protest even in the midst of a pandemic. Even though
African-Americans are most at risk. A month from now
they'll end up in hospital. Too awful to contemplate.

Once again there's a leadership vacuum in response to
the chaos in the United States just as there is with
Covid-19. It's every state for itself with Trump
trolling the democratic leaders for their supposed
failures to contain the unrest.

Once again there's a leadership vacuum
Foxy,
yes, on the Democrat side for not controlling their brainwashed rioters.

Individual,

As I told you on another discussion - Trump
made his political bones by peddling lies
about America's first African-American's
country of origin. Trump thrives on racial
division. Us - Them.

Conflict zones are Trump's comfort zone.
Perfect for firing up his base of support.

Why on earth would you fall for it?

Dear Armchair Critic,

You are indeed a whacker but at least a pretty harmless one.

Here is something for your conspiracy grist;

http://www.snopes.com/fact-check/officer-jacob-pederson-protests/

What do you think?

Dear mhaze,

You are attempting to use the actions of the looters to delegitimise the vast majority of the protesters. Sure there are people taking advantage of police forces stretched by the turnout to loot stores, but the grievances are real.

'I know we have the bolt haters here, but listen to the facts:'

come on Josephus. That is exactly why every regressive hates Bolt. The regressives hate facts and hence hate anyone telling the truth that expose their hatred and lies. They much prefer lying narratives continually pushed by the abc.

can anyone explain why all these violent deviants protesting have not caught the Cornonavirus? I suspect many of the thugs were those cheering on the lockdowns for peoples 'safety'.

Foxy,
Are you saying Trump is asking the stupid to run amok ? All I have seen him do on TV is to aske them to stop the riots !
I suppose in your mentality that is too awful an ask ?

"Trump will be re-elected, nothing surer." likely Issy, highly likely. The demonstrating has pushed covid-19 to page 2 along with the 108,599 official count of dead Americans.

I can see why Dictator Donald would appeal to the usual band of nutcakes we have on the forum. Including the pair of religious zealots, who worship the Antichrist. Did you catch Trump holding up a bible outside a boarded up church near the White Bunker. A band of Trump goons had gone ahead and swept all the people away from the church beforehand, including the local happy clappers from the very establishment, so the dictator could pretend "all is well, I will make America great again!"

Good comment, someone said Mexico is building a wall, they sure need one, Canada to. BTW 1200 septic tanks are dropping into Darwin, virus and all!

Toni,

"//"Antifa are a tiny bunch of piss-ants"....evidence?//

Do your own posts count as evidence?"

Well I was looking for evidence that they were piss-ants rather than small in number. That they are a small group is clear. All revolutionary wannabe groups are tight and closely held. After all what's the point of getting all that power and then having to share it with a bunch of fellow loosers.

But piss-ant? No. They are well coordinated, well funded (VERY well funded) and highly organised. Even some Democrat pollies (and let's face it, they are usually slow on the uptake) are realising that violence is coordinated and organised.

Perhaps someday someone will explain how thieving a HDTV advances the cause of racial harmony.

Still its nice to see that those of a certain leaning now recognise that antifa are involved. It seems like only yesterday that it was all being done by white supremacists. Oh wait...it was only yesterday! Good times.

I guess it needs to be pointed out to the slow of learning that all of this confected mayhem is occurring in Democrat dominated regions. I particularly liked the Mayor of some town in Florida who advised the looters that his folk like and had guns and that they would protect their property. Unsurprisingly, the looters went elsewhere.

Want more Trump...this is how you get more Trump

//Did you catch Trump holding up a bible outside a boarded up church near the White Bunker.//

Did you notice that he was holding it upside-down? I reckon he might be an actual Satanist, they like inverting the symbols of Christianity.

Toni, you are correct, Dictator Donald was holding the Holy Scriptures upside down, only a Satanist would commit such an evil act! Where are runner and Fr Jose to tells us of their fears about the Antichrist!

Donald was holding the Holy Scriptures upside down,
Paul1405 & Toni Lavis,
Wow, i must hand it to you two girls. Noticing this unforgivable act of Satanism & treachery !
I mean holding a book upside down is about the worst offence thinkable !
Have you really got nothing else to worry about ?
Looks like Australian welfare is paying you too much for your idle time.

.

To all and sundry,

.

As the lead actor in the presidential role of the United States, I’m afraid it’s becoming more and more evident that Donald Trump is a casting error. He doesn’t quite fit the role.

Admittedly, he has put the boot into the ant nests on several occasions and woken-up some sleeping giants both at home and abroad, which seem to have had some positive effects.

But the problem is he is supposed to be the president of all America, not just the super-rich, the WASPs and Middle America.

In addition, he shoots first and thinks later and takes too many liberties with the script.

He has wreaked havoc with the scenario and is completely out of control. He is a danger to the nation and no longer even serving the best interests of the political party that sponsored him for the role.

The mass riots and demonstrations that have been taking place throughout the country over the past few days do not augur well at all :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dvxhlPt32g
.

The remaining five months of his contract could prove to be quite dramatic.

.

Black live matter is a slogan promoted by Democrats.

http://www.facebook.com/thehodgetwins/videos/721496038411706/?t=102

"Did you notice that he was holding it upside-down?"

Well he wasn't holding it upside down at all. Its just one of those 'OrangeManBad' memes that you dills fall for. Every friggin' one. Every friggin' time.

Someone makes up something to show (no PROVE) that Trump's a fool, and there are the usual morons willing (no ANXIOUS) to lap it up. Bother checking first?....no need because OrangeManBad.

And as to noticing it. Well you didn't 'notice' anything. You were told about it and since you just wanted it to be true, you fell, yet again, for it.

Now, anyone with two brain cells to rub together would treat this as a learning moment to perhaps be a little bit more sceptical of the OrangeManBad memes in the future. But not our band of merry TDS aficionados. Nup they'll forget or rationalise this away in a thrice and be poised (no anxious) to lap up the next piece of OrangeManBad rubbish as soon as they're told to believe it.

Oh evidence? Well for you characters that usually isn't required but some of us think evidence is rather important. The evidence is in lots of places but this is one of the better ones...
http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/politics/lefties-and-media-peeing-their-pants-over-trump-holding-the-bible-upside-down/90262143

//Well I was looking for evidence that they were piss-ants rather than small in number.//

Sorry, my mistake. Had to google pissant, found this:

'an insignificant or contemptible person or thing'

Seems to fit the bill fairly well.

//They are well coordinated, well funded (VERY well funded) and highly organised. Even some Democrat pollies (and let's face it, they are usually slow on the uptake) are realising that violence is coordinated and organised.//

Here we go, tinfoil hats on.

I do enjoy your entertaining conjecture. I have a different theory, that people got very, very angry after seeing the confronting footage of George Floyd being murdered - some so angry that it boiled over into violence.

Without having seen a shred of substantiating evidence to support a rather far-fetched conspiracy theory when a simpler and more obvious explanation presents itself, I'm going to have to side once again with William of Occam.

//Still its nice to see that those of a certain leaning now recognise that antifa are involved.//

Yes, 'involved'. As in showing and up taking part, because they're the sort of dropkicks that think it's their solemn duty to just be a bloody nuisance, and they're not that fussed about the cause: environmental, anti-capitalist, anti-communist, anti-globalism, pro-globalism, you name a bandwagon and they'll jump on it as long as there's an opportunity to cause trouble. We call these people 'd!ckheads' and nobody likes them, but we live in a civilised society and you can't just go herding them into camps.

However, they are not particularly bright or well organised. I've met these sort of d!ckheads in my time and I reckon they'd struggle to tie their own shoelaces. These are not skilled operatives orchestrating some shadowy conspiracy. They'd probably struggle to spell 'shadowy conspiracy'. I reckon you've been watching too many movies.

Speaking of pissants, how pissantish is it to squeal about somebody holding a Bible upside down, particularly when those pissants are unlikely to have ever laid hands on a Bible themselves.

Josephus,

Of course Democrats would promote Black Lives Matter.
They're pro Democracy - and governments for the people,
by the people (you know - the spiel) it's part of their
Constitution - equality for ALL not just for some.

"AC: so the US military planned against this murder two months ago ?"

No, of course not but they were certainly planning for civil unrest.
And not only that, I believe certain elements were creating the conditions for this kind of situation to unfold.

This is just another coloured revolution, the US has been doing this same trick on other nations for decades, but you're all to stupid to see it.
- Only now it's being done to remove one of their own.

These things are all happening and it follows a well worn script.

Use Civil rights groups (ie - George Soros) to start protests
Provoke police into doing something stupid on camera
Televise a crackdown by police on citizens
Have police or security go after journalists
Label the leader a dictator for opposing free speech and attacking press
Say the leader has lost the legitimacy to rule

It's a bloody school-play.

Hey Toni Lavis,
//When you find out that pallets of bricks were delivered on the streets into many cities and towns prior to the uprising you'll realise this was planned.//
Don't criticise without checking the facts for yourself, you're only making a fool of yourself.
Spoke to people by phone in the US last night and they too are aware of it.
laughably stupid? - That's you standing in front of a mirror.

Hey SteeleRedux,
I don't know about the incident in the link you shared, but I have seen footage of several police trying to smash open a glass door or window, (looks like an attempt to break in) however their was no information other than the footage itself to give an idea whether or not they had a legitimate reason to be doing so.

Talking about Trump's photo opportunity and
the Bible?

What a guy! So in control.

He ensured the photo opp would take place becaue prior
to the bible photo shoot Trump ordered the area
cleared of protesters by law enforcement who used
tear gas and flash-bang grenades to dispel the crowd.
Such "Christian" behaviour.

The impetus was a staged photo opp in front of the
historic St John's Episcopal Church (which has already
been condemned by religious leaders).

Holding the Bible might mean a great deal to some -
however it would add even more meaning if he'd just
actually open it once in a while.

Trump, what a dill. He puts the bible in front of himself, then glances down and sees he can read the cover. Such a dope, he doesn't realise if he can read the cover, the book must be upside down.

I see the forums right wing ratties running off looking for a bible to test if its true. Don't panic fellas, if you can't find a bible to try, your copy of Mein Kampf will work just as work as well!

I can only imagine how envious Donald Trump would be of you geniuses who have never picked up book upside down. He would probably wish he was as smart, successful and rich as you are, with all your achievements and the power that you wield globally. Green with envy, he would be if he knew of your existence.

Our existence is neither here nor there as far
as the United States, a recognised super power,
is concerned. But what should be concerning
for all of its citizens is the vacuum that it
currently has in its leadership.

No wonder people of all colours and persuasions
rich and poor, religious and non-religious,
black and white, are demonstrating in solidarity
around the globe.

Interesting point on the ABC's Planet America yesterday:
American cops have almost no formal training on when to escalate and when (and how) to deescalate the situation - a few hours at the academy and that's it for ever. Whereas for British cops it's something they frequently revisit throughout their career. As a result, the British police are skilled at deescalation and usually do so; the American police are not, and are far more biased to escalation. And even where American police do manage to deescalate it, their actions can be undermined by those of their colleagues without the same understanding - as happened in at least one city a few days ago.

ttbn,

When I was a child I wanted to be everything Donald Trump is today: a clown.

I guess that's better than wanting to be a
"Stop" sign which our neighbour's son wanted
to be - because he liked the idea of control.

Thankfully he grew out of it. And today is a
parish priest. (smile).

Australia has 9 police forces for 25.5 million people, in the land of the gun and home of the grenade they have 18,000 pseudo outfits for 330 million doing the same job. In small town U.S.A, you can get elected town sheriff just as easily as getting elected town dog catcher, no formal training or qualifications required. Then you can hire a couple of your buddies, the good ole' boys, as your deputies. That's why at many traffic stops, a town deputy will often poke a gun in the drivers face, before ordering him to "GET OUT OF THE CAR!

Foxy said;
He ensured the photo opp would take place becaue prior
to the bible photo shoot Trump ordered the area
cleared of protesters by law enforcement who used
tear gas and flash-bang grenades to dispel the crowd.
Such "Christian" behaviour.

Foxy, I am amazed that you are so unread.
Whenever a President moves anywhere the Secret Service, a misnomer if
ever there was one, checks and clears the area of anyone they do not
know or of which they are suspicious.
Trump would not have ordered anything, he automatically would have
expected it to be so.

The amount of nonsense being propagated on here by people I thought
had above general knowledge has amazed me. Some of your statements
belong there.

As an aside, many thousands of white people were slaves mostly at
the hands of Arab slave traders before Islam appeared on the scene.
They sold slaves to the Romans who had a practice of after many years
of service would grant them Roman citizenship and so they were free.
The Arab slavers raided all the Med coast Spain, Britain and France
and even to Iceland where they especially went after blonde girls as
they fetched a special price in Arab countries and North Africa after
the Islamisation of Nth Africa.
You can see echos of this today in Rotham in the UK.
It did not really cease until the new US Navy went to the Med and
forced the Moslem rulers to stop the Barbary Coast slave traders
and Pirates. The rulers wanted money to stop the trade but Bengimin
Franklin said stop it or else. Sounds like Trump !

Bazz,

We lived and worked in the United States for
close to ten years.
I am familiar with the security required for US
Presidents. The information that I was citing
concerning the current US President was
taken from the US newspapers.

President Trump is one of the view US Presidents who
has given order to law enforcement to behave in the
way that they have. He's threatened "the most vicious
dogs and weapons", on crowds outside the White House.
He's also trolling the democratic leaders for their
supposed failures to contain the unrest.

There is a vacuum in response to the chaos, just as there is
with Covid-19. It's every state for itself.
Don't you dare try to defend the f- wit. He should be
removed from office - he's a danger to everyone.

No doubt that ensuring law and order is an important need.

But it is the way Trump is going about it which, i believe, is more in line with being a dictator rather than a democratic leader.

Chris,

The American War of Independence and the framing of their political system by the founding fathers was all about getting rid of autocrats be they dictators or kings so I hope Trump keeps on doing what he is doing because the built-in mechanisms in the political culture will ensure that this will be his only term of office.

Goodbye Trump!

Dear Chris,

You've hit the nail on the head.

Trump is behaving like a dictator. No question.

I read a recent article where it was pointed out that
He cages children, he holds military parades (last year
on Independence Day, in Washington), he muses about being
President for life - and nobody seems to see him for what
he is. People think he's a clown and laugh.

That's no longer good enough.

It blinds us to the chilling fact that the leader of the
world's most powerful nation is behaving like an
authoritarian dictator, one who not only threatens
democracy in his own country but beyond.

No wonder he identifies so strongly with Putin.

The man used Independence Day last year to stage a military
display in which M1A2 tanks and Bradley armoured vehicles
rolled into Washington, while fighter jets and helicopters
filled the sky.

We're told that the generals, mindful of the need to
separate military and political power had long
opposed this extravaganza and tellingly most of the joint
chiefs contrived to stay away.

They understood that such a pageant is the stuff of despots,
not democrats.

We're told that we should not treat Trump's Presidency
as if it is normal. Which it is nothing of the sort.
But first we need to see it clearly for - what's
happening and perhaps stop laughing.

Foxy wrote: "...law enforcement who used tear gas and flash-bang grenades to dispel the crowd."

Apparently this information " was taken from the US newspapers."

And who ever heard of US newspapers making it up. Foxy spent 2+ years believing the Mueller rubbish that US newspapers fed her and still believes every word they tell her!!

In fact the protesters around the church were moved on because they were the opposite of peaceful, the church having been torched. And they were throwing rocks at the police.

Even worse for Foxy's gullibility, the tear gas story was just a media fabrication. But Foxy will still believe it.

I suggested to Toni/Paul that being so misled by the media over the upside-down bible meme might be a learning experience. And it was for Paul who learned to ignore unwanted data. But I won't make the same suggestion to Foxy - no point.

Foxy claimed "We lived and worked in the United States for
close to ten years." And previously she's shown (for example in regards to the Electoral College which she understood the same way my budgie understand nuclear fusion) that she has no understanding of the US system.

She write: "There is a vacuum in response to the chaos, just as there is with Covid-19. It's every state for itself."
It'll come as a shock to Foxy that the US is a federal system and Trump has little power in regards to the rioters. The police forces are state police forces. Trump's only play is to send in the army and that's a step too far at this point.

What the Foxy's of the world ignore is that these are state issues. The WuFlu responses were state response where some did well and some did abysmally (eg Democrat run New York City). Equally with a few exceptions these riots are in Democrat controlled states and cities where Trump has little power.

"He should be removed from office..."
Well they've been trying (and lying) for 4 years but he's too smart for them. This is just the latest attempt.

Foxy, you lived there all those years and knew how it works and yet
you still said that !
Don't worry the courts are still there.
As Churchill said, democracy makes for a terrible government but it is
still the best.

You people crack me up.

Chris informs us Trump's a fascist demonstrating that Chris has no idea what a fascist is.

Trump is also no better than Putin or Xi according to some.

Now according to several here, Trumps's a dictator.

Now I seem to recall that there's gunna be election in 6 months where Trump could loose power. How many dictators hold free and fair elections? (now I know that you will now quibble about the minutia of the elections, but no dictator gets unelected - ever).

Oh and the press in the US (almost to a man) regularly attack Trump, his policies and his government. How many countries with dictators have a free press?

Oh and there's a chap who is heading the official opposition to Trump in these upcoming elections. And he's free to say and do whatever he wants, even though little of it makes sense. Want to know what happens to opposition candidates in real dictatorships?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7827569/Anti-Putin-Russian-opposition-leader-Alexei-Navalny-arrested-raid-Moscow.html

Oh and as you might have heard there are riots and protests in the streets of the US. Want to know what happens when there's riots in a real dictatorship? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3RzKKfNkTk
http://iconicphotos.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/nikon-scan-original_4.jpg

Trump's a dictator? Seriously? Just children stamping their feet.

__________________________________________________________________

"When I was a child I wanted to be everything Donald Trump is today: a clown."

And you succeeded. Congrats.

Mhaze,

obviously there are democratic constraints, but i believe that Trump has total disdain for such impediments.

That is why i think he is not much different from Xi or Putin.

Fortunately, the US has a good chance of limiting his desires, but we shall see.

Go democracy.

Well Foxy knows President Trump very well, she reads all about him in the Left wing media, and SBS and the ABC. They present him as the person she believes him to be. In her eyes Trump is responsible for the tensions and violence raised in the current riots.

Let us look at the alternative, a weak leader, easily influenced. Biden supports the genocide of the Black population by funding Planned Parenthood; which Trump rejects.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/biden-rescued-by-black-voters-now-has-to-enthuse-them

Joe Biden’s political resurrection in the race for the Democratic nomination was due largely to overwhelming support from black voters. Yet racial tensions laid bare by nationwide protests have revealed a problem for Biden in the November election -- he doesn’t excite younger black voters who want change, not just a sympathetic ear.

Biden supports Planned Parenthood whose record is genocide by abortions on black babies.The inconvenient truth of “black genocide” significantly decreased the potential black population of Georgia over the past fifty years. According to recent Centers for Disease Control (CDC) statistics, while African-Americans constitute 32.2 percent of Georgia’s population, 62.4 percent of abortions in Georgia are performed on African-American women.

Bazz,

We might have our democracies but we are still waiting for the Justice needed to make it complete.

We might have wrested power from the autocrats and oligarchs but the resulting elite groups haven't let us have a justice system that makes us all really equal. We see examples of this absence of justice in the behaviour of our so-called betters and a lot of us have experienced the absence of justice and wonder Why?

Isn't this what has happened in the US where a lot of people were given civil rights from their actions in the 1950s/60s only to find they are still unfree because they are deprived of justice. And they are asking What good is democracy without justice?

Donald Trump's response to that question: We'll shoot you on sight!

Well it certainly seems like I've struck a chord
regarding the US President and his support base
on this forum. Yay!

Does any one actually read what mhaze posts?
Or take it seriously?

Just asking.

He's so effluent. One of the most effluent posters on
this forum if the truth be told.

Anyway, for the information of everybody else - I
glean my information from a variety of sources, including
friends, family, and colleagues still living in the US.
And what I cite is fairly consistent and concerning -
regarding the US President.

However, you guys can check it all for yourself on the
web. But a word of caution - do try to read more than
just the "Patriotic"Right Wing blogs and propaganda.
It screws with your brain.

Foxy,

i think Trump is even angry with Fox News, hardly the ABC or PBS.

I've just thought of a great slogan for the Democrats' election campaign:

'If Melania won't divorce Trump maybe the people should!'

Dear Chris,

Trump is angry with everyone.

Mr O,

Trump's new slogan for his election is not going
to be - "Make America Great again," (which he stole
from Clinton BTW). But apparently at a recent meeting
they've decided to use - "Transition to Greatness".
Whatever that means. It may take some explaining.

Anyway here's a few other slogans that the Brits
came up with when Trump visited the UK:

PUTIN'S CHUMP.
DUMP TRUMP.
GIVE TRUMP A THUMP.
TRUMP OFF.
ORANGE IS THE NEW TWAT!.
YOU KNOW ITS BAD WHEN LIBRARIANS ARE MARCHING!

The absolute madness that is going on in the US, a short item I saw on
the TV this last week was a scene where a shop was being looted.
A man in a mask was standing at the entrance waving in a queue of
looters one at a time as looters came out carrying their loot.

Now any country where criminal activity can be organised that well has
a lot of great future ahead of it.
The British were always thought to be the world champion queuers.
Well they have been well and truly beaten by the yanks.

In other areas they just shot it out and 11 people, including police,
died in the street.
So why are they all so excited about what is going on ?
Why are they even going to protest in our streets ?
We should all just sit back and shake our heads and consider the madness !

Foxy,

What are you going to say when Trump is re-elected?

'Dear Chris,

Trump is angry with everyone.'

all those pussy headed tantrum throwers who went along with the Russian delusion hoax seemed much angrier than I have ever seen Trump.

American racism discussed;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGRkolhIxnk

Given recent incorrect polls, Trump may well win.

What would I do if he won? Probably just shake my head and become much more pessimistic about world affairs.

Sure Trump was right to take on China, much more so than the Democrats, but I don't see many other policy successes for him besides significant wealth gain for the rich prior to the coronavirus disaster.

Debt continues to increase, and manufacturing hit a record low in early 2020.

So all you Trump lovers, please explain why he should be re-elected without reverting to attack others.

In other words, try very, very hard to stick to the issues

Probably just shake my head and become much more pessimistic about world affairs.
Chris Lewis,
Have you considered the option of doing something worthwhile/useful ? How about doing a stint away from mere theorising & idealism. If you do feel compelled to share views by writing, how about writing about why the Left has become so insipid ? A bit of investigative Journalism so to speak. Along the lines of delving into why Leftists have this contradictory mentality of portraying themselves as good when in reality they're more involved in perpetuating evil ! Parasites constantly snarling at the hand that feeds them ! I'd certainly make a more interesting & productive read that parroting about Trump !

Is Mise,

Trump will not be re-elected. You have my word on that.

If you can't believe Mr Opinion then who can you believe?

Individual, that is a bit harsh. Go read my past OLO stuff; I am hardly always sticking up for the left.

But, IMO, Trump is a disgrace as world leader, even from a centre-right perspective. Am I not allowed to have an opinion?

But, heaven forbid, you cant even say this on this thread without some rightwing posters (not all) giving you a serve about your own efforts.

But, then again, some of you guys have now turned on Morrison, so perhaps I am asking too much.

Like I will say again, provide the reasons why Trump should be re-elected, but without attacking posters

BTW, I don't identify with either the left or right as my own views shift depending on the issue.

The party that offers the best policy mix given the demands of the day, should win an election. I think that happens most of the time.

I don't think Trump, given the current context, will be perceived to be the best option at the next US election given his response to coronavirus and now the recent protests.

"If you can't believe Mr Opinion then who can you believe?"

Wun Hung Lo.

Oh so it turns out that Trump is a democratic dictator!! A previously unknown form of dictator - one who oppresses his people and then invites them to vote him out while allowing them to launch all types of criticism via the press and social media and to launch all sorts of official investigations into the actions of the dictator. Happens all the time don'tcha know. Struth. Trump Derangement Syndrome makes even the relative sane go nuts.

A democratic dictator?? As common as sugar-free fairy floss.

And then we have Foxy who, having it pointed out that she's fallen for more lies from her favoured media and having it pointed out that she really doesn't understand the federal system and having it pointed out that her claims about Trump's dictatorship is utter gumph, instead of seeking to defend her views or acknowledge error, goes full-on ad hominem with scatological overtones no less. A classy lady is Foxy.

Is Mise,

You've mistaken me for someone else because that is not my Chinese name.

My Chinese name is Bigwen Bigwen.

so where are the reasons why Trump should be re-elected.

Come on, cant be that hard to highlight his achievements.

I think there are some important aspects of the Trump legacy beyond critique of China that have changed political discourse?

I am just interested in hearing what you supporters of Trump think.

Chris,

It certainly could happen: all he has to do is resolve the Covid-19 crisis, and to combat and defeat the larger, second, wave of deaths over the next few months.

Then oversee the re-connection of the US economy, first across the country, then with neighbouring countries like Mexico and Brasil and Canada, and then with the rest of the world;

Then mend his fences with China;

and of course, resolve many of the issues of inequality and police brutality which seem to be endemic to the US.

I'm sure that Trumpf has learnt a great deal from what he has read and seen on TV. He knows that he can do it, that he may have the November 3 election in the bag: all he has to do is put on his cape and shout "SHAZAAM !"

If only everybody else wouldn't get in his way or keep disparaging him, and all those other conspiracies too, why does everybody hate him so much ? So unfair.

I wish him all the luck that he is entitled to: i.e. twice as much of bugger-all.

Joe

Chris,

To me Trump's goose is well and truly cooked and there is nothing he has done or will do over the coming months that will save him.

It is the American political system and political culture that are working against him to prevent him from being re-elected. The system does not want a wannabe king running the country.

I'll stick my neck out here and take a punt that the Electoral College will put Biden into the White House even if Trump was to gain the popular vote because I think the political system that was set up by the founding fathers will kick in to get rid of what has been the weirdest president in US history.

Reasons
!. There is no proposed leader more adept than Trump at the moment.
2. Though Trump has his faults, he has instigated manufacturing that will employ more unskilled blacks.
3. He wants to defund Planned parenthood which murders black babies.
4. Trump is the only leader that can stand up to any World leader, without fear or favour.
5. Trump will not sell American uranium to nuclear threatening Nations.

Josephus,

You left out:

6. He is a clown.

I've said before that it'll be a miracle if Trump wins again given the forces arrayed against him - a victory as unlikely as that of Octavian and just as consequential. Consider that he is opposed by not just the Democrats but a portion of the Republicans, the vast majority of the mass media, basically all the social media platforms, the deep state and the bureaucracy in general, Wall Street, all of the US's enemies who dearly want and need him defeated. The only things in favour of a victory is the fact that the 'deplorables' realise he's their last best chance for economic salvation and of course his own intellect and media savee.

The Trump revolution was/is a revolt by those who were pushed aside over the last three decades by the various elites. US manufacturing was outsourced to other nations, the great steal works and car manufacturers and coal mines and oil workers all pushed aside by elites looking to make money from cheap Asian labour and cheap Asian goods. It was a victory of the consuming classes over the producing classes. In a word it was globalisation...at the expense of the working man.

California is a microcosm of that future - a spectacularly rich ruling class, serviced by underpaid manual labourers and a pool of unemployed and homeless who are allowed to live on the scraps.

Trumpism threatens that elite and offers hope to the 'deplorables'.His defeat is a victory for Wall Street and the consuming elite and the final defeat for fly-over Americans. There will be no second chance.

Biden already talks of closing down the fracking industry that employs tens of thousands. Coal likewise. The border will be opened to allow in competitors for low paid jobs. The incentives to repatriate manufacturing will evaporate.
Trumpism is a sea change away from the conspiracy of the world’s elites against the world’s workers. That’s why the elite hate him and all he stands for. His defeat is the defeat of that revolution.

/cont

/cont

My favourite Trump posters has him saying..”they’re not after me, they’re after you..I’m just in the way”.
http://publicfigure.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/trump-tweet-meme-1.jpg
If he’s no longer in the way, it’s all over.
And not just for fly-over America, but for the whole democratic experiment. California is already closer to a feudal society that we’d like, but it’s merely the fore-runner of the post-Trump world.

A defeat for Trump is a victory for the whole of the state apparatus. They’ve spent 4 years trying to defeat and neuter his policies and administration. That they’ve failed to-date is a miracle. But if they get ‘their’ man back in, all that will be unravelled. It will prove elections no longer matter and that the elite run and own the country and all those in it.

Of course China, Russia, Iran, NKorea are all routing for a Biden win. The only reason they haven’t already capitulated to the Trump pressure is the hope that they, aided by the US ‘resistance’, can overthrow him and get back to normality- the normality that suits their purposes.
Trump loses – Xi win.

Indeed I don’t think its overstating things to say that this election is about Western Civilisation. Ever since the rise of liberal democracy, it’s been assailed by an array of enemies. Each one has been defeated. But China and its allies are the most formidable of the lot and if China does become the world hegemon this century, western civilisation will wither away to be replaced by a society filled with Xinjiang re-education camps. It’s that important. A Biden victory, a victory for the Chinese apologists will go a long way to ensuring inevitable rise of China.

I’m pessimistic because Trump’s enemies realise what’s at stake and will do anything to defeat him. I’m hopeful that 60+ million Americans will vote for their own salvation.

Josephus,

Trump's 108,000 deaths of Americans vs. Morrison's barely one hundred deaths of Australians. That's your idea of 'adept' ? A leader who sucks up to Kim Jong-On and Putin ? Who sells out the Kurds, our only true allies in the Middle east ? That's your idea of 'without fear or favour' ?

The creature is a moron, as Mattis rightly remarked (or was it McMaster ? Or Tilleson ? Or Kelly ? Or Sean Scully ?). But he's your moron, your creature, your Frankenstein's monster, you're stuck with him.

Couldn't happen to a nicer bloke :)

Joe

Why is it that whenever there is a hiccup in the US, that left whinge cockroaches scuttle out from below their rocks to declare that either:

a Capitalism is finished,
b The US is in decline and will never recover,
c China will overtake the US and be the sole superpower.

SM,

Hmmmm ........ perhaps from a certain ideological slant, 108,000 deaths is a hiccup.

I fear that there are more hiccups to come yet in the US before November.

Joe

LM2,

In the EU there have been roughly 200 000 deaths with a population a little bigger than that of the US, is the EU about to implode?

Well Folks, you have to realise that the US
President is a thrice-married, swindly, profane,
materialistic, self-styled playboy, who has
appealed mainly to the more-fringe elements of
Christianity in the US.

They're a rag-tag group of prospective gospelers
(like his pastor and "spiritual adviser" - Paula
White, a televangelist who promises her donors
their own personal angel - and thinks God is in the
White House). The Christian dominionists (who
believe that America's laws should be founded explicitly
on biblical ones - including stoning homosexuals) and
charismatic or Pentecostal outliers (like Frank Amedia,
the Trump campaign's "liaison for Christian policy"
who once claimed to have raised an ant from the dead).

Considering their extreme views - these folk have an
alarming number of followers, however, without the Evangelical
bloc - no Republican candidate could ever hope to have a
path to the Presidency. Hence Trump holding the Bible outside
a church is symbolic - and appeals to his base of support.

Therefore we have to realise that -
the upcoming US Presidential election
is not going to be between Republicans and Democrats.
It's going to be between
"good" and "evil". Between "righteousness" and
"unrighteousness".

And Trump's supporters here on this forum are of course -
"righteous!". As we all know.

SM,

A 'tu quoque' argument ? I'm certainly not suggesting that Trumpf and the US administration are the only half-wits in the world, Europe is not far behind. But of course, Europe is made up of many disparate, semi-independent countries, much like the US with its multitude of states and counties, so co-ordinating policy there must be like herding cats. Maybe, if Europe was one single, co-ordinated unit, the death rate could have been far lower. Discuss :)

But it's not too late for both Europe and the US to learn from New Zealand and Australia, on how to control the virus killing their citizens. Sooner or later, they will have to come back to hard lock-downs, comprehensive testing and tracking, isolation, reserving hospital space for virus cases, etc. But so much economic damage has been done already while so much time has been wasted facing up to the real issues.

Joe

'And Trump's supporters here on this forum are of course -
"righteous!". As we all know.'

argue all you like Foxy however killing unborn babies is pure evil. Trump is as sinful as you and me however he certainly seems to have a better compass than you. All these regressives pretending they care about American blacks is sickening. They are just an intolerant hateful people who hate decency. And your hatred leads you to support such barbarity. NO wonder you loved Hilary so much.

Mr Opinion,

You asked,
"If you can't believe Mr Opinion then who can you believe?"

My answer was not to quote your Chinese name but to say that you can believe Wun Hung Lo.

runner,

I have never "loved" Hilary Clinton. I simply thought
that Trump was unqualified to be US President. I was
not wrong. And you are deluded in your support of
him. He is not a "righteous" nor a Christian man. He
uses religion for his own personal agenda, as he does with
everything else. He puts himself first - and that is not
what followers of Christ should do.

Good to see reasons why some support Trump.

Shadow Minister

I also don't think capitalism will end anytime soon, but I prefer it to be accompanied by liberalism, not dominated by authoritarianism.

b The US is in decline and will never recover,

I agree that the US will long survive and be a major promoter and defender of democracy, including limiting the power of those who seek absolute power within and beyond its shores.

c China will overtake the US and be the sole superpower.

It will never happen, but we need to get a bit more aggressive to ensure this.

'He is not a "righteous" nor a Christian man. He
uses religion for his own personal agenda, as he does with
everything else. He puts himself first - and that is not
what followers of Christ should do.'

dear oh dear Foxy for 15 years you have been telling me to judge not for you shall be judges. You obviously don't practice what you preach.

runner,

Yes I have been telling you many things for the
past decade - all to no avail. You continue to judge
others whose views don't agree with yours and as a
self-proclaimed Christian you can't see the hypocrisy
in your own actions. You talk about "hateful people,"
who hate "decency". And yet you support the most
indecent US President that ever lived.

Shame on You!

'You talk about "hateful people,"
who hate "decency". And yet you support the most
indecent US President that ever lived.'

ok Foxy you think you are omniscience. How can anyone tell you anything.

Runner,

I think Foxy has a point: can you name a President who has been more foul-mouthed, disrespectful of women and any ethnic groups besides his own, who thinks that his inherited money can buy him anything he wants, including power ?

But at the same time, is the most pig-ignorant, blow-hard, piss-and-wind president that the US has had ? The biggest bully ? The most narcissistic ?

He's yours, you're stuck with him, at least until November :)

Joe

runner,

It's easy to be omniscient when you've done it all
before (with you).

However in the case of the United States and the
current unfortunate situation there - when you
get some in the country thinking that Washington
is a sort of Heaven and behind its clouds dwell
omniscience and omnipotence, you are educating
those people into a dependent state of mind which
augers ill for the future.

'I think Foxy has a point: can you name a President who has been more foul-mouthed, disrespectful of women and any ethnic groups besides his own, who thinks that his inherited money can buy him anything he wants, including power ?'

Oh Loudmouth your irrational hatred brings you out again. Actually I can't think of a President who is so pro life, marries a foreigner, exposes the lying left liberal media. The woman whom I have seen that support Trump such as Candace Owens and many others are full of class, dignity and intelligence. I see virtually no women like that from the left. People from difference ethnic groups I know actually are very impressed by Trump. You seem to have thrown away your ability to think clearly. Foxy obviously did that years ago picking up on almost everyone of the lying leftist narratives that virtue signal to everyone while being full of hot air. Personally I have no idea whether Trump is all those things you accuse him of but for any rational person its about policy and worldview not the individual and Trump comes out miles in front of the deep state and regressive baby killers.

Joe,

Another "tu quoque" I see, the US is actually fairly similar to the EU in that the states are relatively autonomous, and the action taken in each state is decided by that state not the federal government and differs from state to state.

Note that in the democratic cities the democrats were advocating against lockdown before the seriousness became evident.

Shadow, as a leading member of the Forums Dangerous Doctor Donald's cheer squad its not surprising you would be here trying to justify his incompetent handing of the pandemic in the United States. I suppose you also give a tick of approval to Bug Ridden Boris, another of your favourites, in the United Kingdom for his shambolic response to the crises, the UK death toll is now exceeding 40,000, more likely over 50,000 as the Conservative government suppresses the actual number.

One thing you would have to agree with, when it comes to killing their fellow citizens, be it war, or a pandemic, no one can hold a match to conservative politicians.

Shadow Minister,

"Joe, Another 'tu quoque'"

Says the man who is just an engineer.

Andrew Cuomo could be a presidential candidate come 2024?

I don't much about him beyond coronavirus response, but he seems like a straight shooter and competent.

Does anyone agree?

Still wasting time on Donald Trump - a man over whom you have no influence; a man who has no interest in you, doesn't even know you exist. In the meantime, our own dropkick, Scott Morrison, continues to wreck the Australian economy, cosies up to big business and big unions, and leaves the real people, whose jobs and small businesses he ruined over the China virus, out in the cold. He is happy to see police fine kids and little old ladies for breaking the ludicrous social distancing edict, but just bleats 'don't do it' to a bunch of black thugs and white communists who want to crush together in demonstrations about something that happened in America.

And you Leftist idiots actually love the leader of the Liberal party, because you think he saved us from the China virus! You will continue to vote Green/Labor, although Scott the Wet is unlikely to realise that.

Morrison should spend less time trying to be popular and attempting to be everyone’s friend and more time advocating for the policies that will get Australians back into jobs. Instead of trying to pull off a Hawke-like accord with the ACTU, which will never agree to anything, and big business which is no better, he should be announcing tax cuts, spending cuts and reductions in red tape, and if he is about serious making Australia independent and competitive, that Australia was going to develop a nuclear energy industry. And most of all, he should wipe that smirk off his mug.

Scott Morrison should be your target; not a foreign president whose only interest to Australians should be his ability to help save us from Communist China.

"Sydney Black Lives Matter rally: NSW court rules protest is illegal".

That's the headline in the Turnbull Times, aka, The Guardian. I'll bet Prime Minister Pissweak and his NSW Lefty-Liberal colleagues won't be ending in the rozzers to fine the thugs.

Announced today - employment rose by 2.5 million in May in Trump's America.

Ttbn,

" ..... , our own dropkick, Scott Morrison, continues to wreck the Australian economy, cosies up to big business and big unions, and leaves the real people, whose jobs and small businesses he ruined over the China virus, out in the cold. ..... "

Well, come Christmas, we'll see, won't we ? Perhaps even by early November. I'd predict that the NZ and Australian economies will be substantially back in business by then, while the economies of Europe esp. the UK, of the US and Brasil, perhaps even of Canada, will be still floundering.

Of course, it depends how you define 'success' - if only Morrison saw mass deaths rom the Corona-virus as 'a badge of honour' instead of as a tragedy to be avoided at all costs, even to the economy. We're not all lemmings rushing over the cliff.

But perhaps the much-sought-after End of Days will be confined to only a handful of countries :)

Joe

Unemployment rose dramatically in Trump's America
in March (job losses of 1.4 million) and April
(losses of 20.7 million). due to the corona-virus
pandemic and the efforts to contain in.

In recent weeks, all states have begun to re-open
hence US employment rose in - hospitality, construction,
education, retail, and health services.

The unemployment rate fell to 13.3%.

Interesting to see how the pandemic will/won't develop.

A while back I opined.."
In the main this is the last gasps of the left's attempts at reversing the 2016 election and a blatant attempt to stop the loss of black voters to Trump."

Seems its failing. A poll today found that black voter approval for Trump has surged to over 40%. Of course, as Biden has already said, if blacks don't vote for him that cease being black.

________________________________________________________________

Experts thought unemployment would increase by about 7 million. It fell by about 2.5 million. 'Experts'!! Its suggested that most of the improvement was in Republican controlled states whereas 'experts' live in Democrat controlled states where they couldn't see America coming out of the lockdown.

________________________________________________________________

Cuomo:

"I don't much about him beyond coronavirus response, but he seems like a straight shooter and competent."

Competent? His spectacular incompetence lead to his state being by far the worst in terms of WuFlu deaths. His incomprehensibly insane nursing home policy was responsible for 10000 alone, although he is fiddling the numbers to try to hide that error.

Come to think of it, he sounds like the perfect Democrat candidate.

mhaze,

WuFlu ................... That's very good! I like it. Did you make it up yourself?

Ref. the USA, here's an interesting graph
http://www.google.com/search?tbs=simg:CAQSoAIJFgdscWR3JTgalAILELCMpwgaYgpgCAMSKLITjQjEHbMTtxOTE8gdsRObE5oT7z_1XP-0_17j-SN_1A_11j_1EPs0_1lTcaMKRhPbxcsSfLwwkD3FF-7jVrYlMb-8TX3Fr5luwLEzBBKO7UM9cmufMNVZIgg-djWSAEDAsQjq7-CBoKCggIARIE4kYtQQwLEJ3twQkajAEKHQoKc2NyZWVuc2hvdNqliPYDCwoJL20vMDF6Ym53ChgKBm51bWJlctqliPYDCgoIL20vMDVmd2IKGAoGb3Jhbmdl2qWI9gMKCggvbS8wamNfcAoaCgdjYXJtaW5l2qWI9gMLCgkvbS8wNXRfeXQKGwoIcGFyYWxsZWzapYj2AwsKCS9tLzAzMHpmbgw,isz:m&sxsrf=ALeKk02xnrxzXiTRoC9iLbuD7ytCTM3P9A:1591429622727&q=screenshot&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjkyeOq2ezpAhWM8HMBHYDFADgQ2A4oAnoECBEQKg&biw=1024&bih=625#imgrc=gARpl4
The graph is smaller than the link address, thankfully!!

Is Mise,

So who won, Blacks or Whites?

thanks Is Mise

large amount of whites killed by blacks than vice versa. Oh well. when you dumb down generations through school and uni you can expect total delusion by regressives.

Is Mise,
When you have links like that why don't you use Tinyurl ?
Then it looks like this;

http://tinyurl.com/yb3ley77

CONNED
FOOLED
DUPED
TRICKED
TRUMPED!

Sociopaths never answer to facts:
they always attack the messenger.

If you in the past spent your posts criticizing
Hilary's emails or Barack Obama, or Joe Biden,
but never said a
word about the 169 Federal Lawsuits filed against Trump
there's a word for you - HYPOCRITE!

Australia’s legacy of the China virus crisis - more accurately the Scott Morrison economic stuff up - will be an additional net debt of up to $620 billion by the end of this decade, while the budget deficit will peak at nearly $200bn in the next financial year and will remain in deficit through to 2030, according to new Parliamentary Budget Office projections.

I repeat: get over Donald Trump and concentrate on our nitwit PM and the idiot state premiers who are still enforcing lockdowns (except for people jamming streets for a foreign event that has nothing to do with this county) and wrecking our economy, just to put off the realisation of how stupid they have all been. At least Trump has clawed back money from the Paris scam and the WHO, unlike our morons who couldn't operate a school kid's savings account.

runner,

You're so pro Trump - and anyone who criticizes the
US President to you is full of "hate," and a
"regressive", and you consistently bang on about
the "killing of the unborn".

I've got a question for you - as a self-proclaimed
Christian - if the foetus you save - turns out to be
GAY - will you continue to protect its rights?

'I've got a question for you - as a self-proclaimed
Christian - if the foetus you save - turns out to be
GAY - will you continue to protect its rights?'

whether the child grows up and chooses homosexual activities or not gives no one the right to murder Foxy. I thought that would be obvious.

Paul as a foremost member of the batshit crazy pedogreens, it is unsurprising that you forget the people that actually control the corona virus response in each state which is the governors. The two states which are doing the worst have democratic governors.

In the EU the left whinge Sweden is doing far worse than anyone else and the other left whinge EU governments aren't faring much better.

So far it is fair to say that conservative leaders are no worse than left whinge leaders.

Chris lewis,
I mostly agree with you.

.

To all and sundry,

.

According to the US Census Bureau, the “white only” population in the USA in 2017 represented 72.3% of the total population – which means that “coloured” represented 27.7%.

And, according to the statistics regarding “people shot to death by U.S. police, by race” in 2019 : of a total of 802 victims whose ethnicity was identified, 370 (46%) were white and 432 (54%) were “coloured”. There were an additional 202 people of “unknown” ethnicity shot dead by police that same year.

Black people (alone) represented 29.3% of total victims shot by police in 2019. Whereas the black population (alone) represented only 12.7% of the total US population.

Here are the references :

Population of the USA broken down by ethnicity :

https://archive.vn/20200213005659/https://factfinder.census.gov/bkmk/table/1.0/en/ACS/17_1YR/B03002/0100000US

Statistics of people shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2017-2020 :

http://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/
.

In addition, here is a Pew Research survey entitled “Race in America 2019” :

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/04/09/race-in-america-2019/?utm_source=Pew+Research+Center&utm_campaign=d930a0a729-Weekly_2020_06_06&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3e953b9b70-d930a0a729-400724381
.

Considering it more than likely that “human qualities” and “human defects” are fairly evenly distributed throughout the US population – irrespective of political partisanship – the outgoing president will probably have difficulty rallying many of his supporters to his cause on 3 November due to his persistent lack of personal integrity, tolerance, respect, humanity and compassion, which many of them not only consider unnecessary but even unsupportable – to the point of being inacceptable.

His manners, and methods risk to weigh heavily in the balance in the final count – particularly if, faithful to their convictions, many Republicans prefer to choose abstention rather than betraying their party by voting Democrat.

But, of course, none of that necessarily means that Donald Trump will not be re-elected president of the United States. Given their crazy electoral system, anything is possible – even a repeat of the 2016 election.

.

Shadow, you seem to think there is some differentiation in American politics, there is not, its not democratic, it is a one party system with two arms playing at democracy. This Biden character is simply a Trump lite, give him power and little would change. Possibly Biden would appear to be more reasonable, but more reasonable at what? Will America cease to be the belligerent world super power it is, no, I think not, war on Americas enemies will still be a priority. Social division within the US will still be rife under Biden, as it is under Trump. What will change? If I was an American, come November I would not bother voting given the choices. Lat time around only 60% of eligible voters bothered, I can see why.

Paul, I think there are still important differences in the US.

You only need to look at Pew polls to see the immense cleavages between republic and democrat voters on many issues, also represented by the party stance.

Yes, there are also many similarities due to the need to take account of the international economic and political imperatives.

But, at the moment, I don't see any other nation filling in any void caused by a US collapse, although I don't see that possibility eventuating anyway.

The worst case scenario will be greater Chinese influence, but the world dividing with Western nations departing from various international institutions if need be

Foxy wrote passionately about " the 169 Federal Lawsuits filed against Trump".

Well actually they weren't filed AGAINST Trump, they were filings that mentioned Trump.So the 169 included filings where Trump was doing the suing, or filings where Trump was merely a secondary witness (eg the producers of Trump's TV show were sued and he was mentioned). At least half were Trump suing others. And some were mere frivolous lawsuits by nutters..."was filed in December by Federick Banks — who says he is an American Indian Witch. He also sued the CIA director."

Oh and all this occurred before he was prsident.

So Foxy was passionate but completely INACCURATE. Now the question becomes was she inaccurate because all this is too much for her to understand (ie she's a dope) or was she straight up lying? (note that she didn't offer a link which suggests she had something to hide).

Speaking of hypocrites.."Sociopaths never answer to facts:
they always attack the messenger." Pot, meet Mr Kettle.

I don't expect a factual response....perhaps more scatological ad hominems which is her favoured for of defence when found out.

mhaze,

One sure thing though: Get rid of Trump and the world will be a much nicer place.

No one in their right mind would disagree with that.

Just watched a video 5 minute drive around Manhattan after the riots. All ground floor shop windows gone, boarded up. All done peacefully, of course.

And all of these peaceful actions occurred in Democrat controlled (probably the wrong word) cities and states, with oodles of black officials. All anti-Trump lunatics using someone's death as an excuse for anarchy.

runner,

You did not answer my question - if the child turned out
to be GAY - would you still protect its rights?

Ah, I should of course have said that Trump was
NAMED in at least 169 Federal lawsuits.

Again - nit-picking on semantics when one runs out
of arguments. A common tactic for some, obviously.
However, my quote about Hypocrites still stands and
is relevant.

I could also have mentioned the fact that in an
analysis by "USA TODAY"published in 2016 found that
over previous 3 decades Donald Trump and his
businesses have been involved in 3,500 legal cases
in US Federal courts and state court, an unprecedented
number for a US Presidential candidate.

But hey, that's the "American way" to do business - right?

Lets face it the whole Black Lives Matter is a fraud.
The local protestors have largely been taken in and just got onto
the bandwagon for the fun of it.
It is the left wing fascists behind it all.
I can hear echos of "Crystal Nacht" can you ? or are you deaf ?

Then in Australian States either the whole CONvirus 19 is also a fraud
or the government is a fraud.
If there is no spike in a couple of weeks why the restrictions ?

The whole business is in need of tearing down.

Bazz,

mhaze came up with 'WuFlu'. Maybe you could spend your time usefully as well by inventing something like that. It would keep you busy and make people happy just like mhaze was able to do with his 'WuFlu'.

Now be a good boy and run off and get your crayons and paper out; I'm sure you can come up with something. In fact, I'm counting on it! The doctor will be along shortly to see you.

Bazz,

The "Black Lives Matter", campaign is not a fraud.

Of course with so much misinformation circulating
at present it is easy right now to confuse facts
with fiction but don't believe everything you
may read on the web.

The protests are not just about the killing of
George Floyd. They are about the recent deaths of
Ahmaud Arbery and Breonna Taylor. They're about the
October 19 2019 killing of Brianna Hill.

It's what Christian Cooper had to put up with when the
cops called on him by a white woman for simply bird
watching in Central Park. It's about the racial
discrimination that is on show everywhere in the US.
And it needs to stop.

As a result of this racial injustices, American have taken
to the streets across the country to let their voices
be heard in major cities like - Minneapolis, New York,
Los Angeles Atlanta, Anchorage, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas.

Most protesters are peaceful while some have devolved into
looting and rubber bullet shooting by police in riot gear.
However, just a reminder - there was little pushback from
police officers when rioters protested the corona-virus
stay at home order.

People all over the world are joining in the protests.
They're not doing it because it's a fraud.
And to paraphrase our former PM - Bob Hawke -
"Any one who believes this is a fraud - is a BUM!".

Foxy,

Have you noticed from the TV coverages of the protestors that they are generally quite young and seem to be in the 20-40 years age range?

That's interesting and I don't think it is the fear of catching the WuFlu that is keeping the over 40s away.

So what's going on? Maybe we're seeing another cultural revolution like the one in the 1960/70s where younger groups had a hankering to be part of some social movement for change.

Mr O,

It's usually the young that lead the way.
As they did with the anti-Vietnam protests
where the changed the course of the war.

Foxy,

Yes, I understand. But the point I was trying to make is that this protest against the brutality of police against George Floyd and others is probably a bigger movement calling for wider social change. If it is it could gain momentum and we could see protracted demonstrations. If not it will just peter out.

Mr O,

The point that I was making was that the Vietnam war
came to an end largely as a result of the antiwar
movement, a social movement that consisted disproportionately
of young people, including many college students.

When the antiwar movement first challenged the war, it
received little support from politicians or the press, and its
goals seemed almost hopeless. But the tide of public opinion
gradually began to shift.

In the 1968 presidential primaries history tells us that
an antiwar candidate backed by student volunteers did
unexpectedly well and President Johnson decided not to
run for re-election. From that point on, political debate
on the war focused not on how to stay in it, but on how to
get out of it.

Through collective action, ordinary
people with few resources other than their own
determination had changed a national
consensus for war to a national consensus for peace.

A fundamental insight of sociology is that once people no
longer take their world for granted, but instead understand
the social authorship of their lives and futures, they can
become an irresistible force in history.

So it is with the current protest movement which has now
gained world-wide support around the globe and
of much of the media. Interesting times ahead.

Foxy,

With regards the Vietnam War you need to also take into account that it had become a war that the power elite in America realised could not be won because they were fighting a guerrilla war in which they could not find the enemy and the enemy just would not come out to fight in the open. It was not WW2 stuff and the powers to be in the US had no choice but to capitulate to the demands of it's citizens expressed through the younger generation that the war had to be concluded otherwise it would just go on forever with South Vietnam being another contested piece of land that never sees peace. Just like Kosovo and Kashmir are today, just waiting for another spark to ignite them.

Mr O,

It took the US a long time to realise that the Vietnam
war was unwinnable - but the final realisation came as
a result of the antiwar movement and the tide of public
opinion shifting.

Foxy,

it's a great question for debate.

Back to today, looking at the TV news it looks like the protest movement is still gaining momentum.

Maybe the protestors have a simple request: Trump to resign. Can't hold them against that. If we had a complete clown for a prime minister wouldn't we be wanting him/her to resign.

Foxy..having been caught out yet again says "Ah, I should of course have said that Trump was NAMED in at least 169 Federal lawsuits."

Yes you SHOULD have. But you didn't and we still don't know, and never will know, whether it was because you knowing fudged the facts or simply failed to understand the facts.

Either way, it hilarious that you did it while lambasting "Sociopaths [who] never answer to facts". So very Foxy. Someone who could never be accused of being self aware.

She also says "However, my quote about Hypocrites still stands and
is relevant". Yes it is, it's just that she's unaware as to whom its relevant toward. I'll leave her to work it out.

As to Black Lives Matters, Buzz is of course entirely correct in saying it " is a fraud.". This whole thing has long since ceased being about the murder of one man and is now about straight up looting.

" “They tell me ‘Black Lives Matter.’ They’re lying .. I’m black, look what you did to my store.”....

http://nypost.com/2020/06/06/shop-owners-reveal-the-financial-and-emotional-struggles-of-being-looted/

(Read the whole thing to try to see that this is just about state sanctioned theft).

or this poor but entirely admirable bastard .... http://twitter.com/FOX2Erika/status/1268647697613033473

collateral damage I guess.

It also needs to be pointed out that this whole thing is happening in Democrat controlled cities and states. Minneapolis, where it all started has been controlled by the Democrats for 50 years. The Democrats claim to be working for the blacks but almost all the regions of the US that show the worst black poverty and disadvantage are Democrat controlled and have been for decades.

Yet the TDS crowd try to blame Trump.

Still maybe someday someone will explain how whites stealing a HDTV advances racial harmony.

mhaze,

I'm not saying you're not very bright.

That would be rude.

I'm just saying you've got bad luck
when it comes to thinking.

As for the US President?

Donald Trump forgets that it says -

WE THE PEOPLE
NOT
I THE INDIVIDUAL.

Mhaze,

It does seem that the organisers (using the word loosely, as one always has to, in the case of people's protest movements) of these protests in the US have realised that they have to control the looters, criminals, anarchists, opportunists, and provocateurs to avoid Pussy Man bringing out the military.

So we haven't seen much looting lately, or fires, etc. Hopefully that will continue. Democracies need protests with order :)

Joe

Foxy,

More ad hominems?

Seriously wouldn't it have been easier to just not fudge the data in the first place?

You made stuff up. Got caught. Treat it as a learning experience.

110,000 deaths so far from Covid-19 in the US, nearly twice as many Americans as were killed in Vietnam. But the numbers of deaths down below a thousand daily:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&state=default&module=styln-coronavirus-national&variant=show&region=TOP_BANNER&context=storylines_menu

So, as restrictions are lifted prematurely in the US (as in the UK), we can expect the daily case-load to increase - it seems that there are now more US states where the daily case-load is rising than in states where it is falling. So in, say, two weeks, the number of deaths may start to rise again, both in the cities where the protests have been held and in the more outlying areas too.

We're a long way yet from the end of the tunnel.

Joe

mhaze,

I don't make stuff up.

I present facts that unfortunately don't
agree with your viewpoint.

Your problem not mine.

Don't blame your own flaws on others.

LOUDmouth

You said "Democracies need protests with order :)"

Have you stopped to think that there is a difference between a protest and a riot and what we are witnessing in the US is both instead of being just two sides of the same coin albeit the raison d'être is common to both. You should think before you open your LOUD mouth.

"I don't make stuff up."

Well we can all see that you did.

And now you're making stuff up about not making stuff up.

"Sociopaths never answer to facts"
Well at least you get some things right.

"So we haven't seen much looting lately, or fires, etc."

Maybe that's because all the good stuff has already been stolen....

http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8cab5594aa338fb41b98268185d6755de9c50ab5ecf36ffd4d1fa4298f80f100.jpg

Or maybe its because the media you watch has worked out this is all helping to re-elect Trump and the self-censorship has kicked in.

Misopinionated,

Half-wit. Yes, democracies need to protect the right to protest, but organisers of protests need to ensure that provocateurs, criminals, looters, anarchists and general dumb-arses don't disrupt and deflect the protest away from its purpose.

That's the aim: to protest without provoking yet more police brutality or the military being called out: i.e., do it right, don't harm the people. I'm certainly not saying that it happens automatically, as I'm sure that anybody else with a grain of sense realises. Get a small child to explain it to you.

Joe

In a long discussion like this no one has suggested the reason why the
African American has been in such a disadvantaged position in their
country. They have stars like Obama and many others in science etc who
have suceeded in very competitive fields but a large number are
disadvantaged one way or another with little prospect of escape.

Have any of you see the adds on the web that are
using Trump's words against him. How he minimized
coronavirus, falsely downplayed the threat it posed
and absurdly hyped his own handling of it.

Among the Trump quotes highlighted in the adds are:

1) We have it under control.
2) This is the new hoax.
3) The country's in great shape. The market's in
great shape.
4) I don't take responsibility at all.
5) I'd rate it a 10.
6) I think we're doing a great job.

And in big letter the message reads:

BUT TRUMP
FAILED
TO ACT.

Foxy,

Don't you just love Trumpisms. I like his:

Tested positively negative for COVID-19.

Bazz,

The reason is obvious. Just like white people, some black people have what it takes, and some don't. It is as easy for the not so bright blacks to invent excuses and blame other people for their inability as it is for white people to do it. Blacks have the advantage of calling white people racists. The not so bright whites haven't yet twigged that blacks can be just as racist as whites, so they don't use that excuse.

mhaze,

I truly applaud people who correct me when
I've made a mistake but of course two things
have to come into play:
1) they have to pass the "mirror" test.
( be breathing). And -
2) I have to respect their opinion.

mhaze,

You accuse me of making things up but defend
Donald Trump?

Come on!

This is worth a listen to his claims, if you can ignore his language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW5-srjuCbg&fbclid=IwAR39XMY0db2lzsumLB-sTJGtCWziDwikVhLF2uQye1_16KekBXspuGDd-2E&app=desktop

Joesphus, I could not possibility listen to three hours of that.
In fact I lost track of what he was on about after five minutes.

Josephus,

Have you got anything of Dave Chapelle?

Bazz,

If you want to watch something good may I suggest Westworld (the TV series).

I've just finished Season 1. Excellent production. Binge worthy.

Perhaps this presents a brief of the previous post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfsuKCgwDpo&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR00fQ11MxtaCs181w3gtbqw_Vmj8ukDhvmbF2XO4G2K_wK1F-1-dKQbky4

Josephus,

No, that's still not Dave Chapelle!

If you can't give us Dave Chapelle then at least use the old "It's in the Bible somewhere; find it yourself." routine.

To Bazz.

As best I can tell, the disadvantages in African Americian communities comes down to disadvantaged lives on a large scale. Start at the family unit and work to have more stable households with two parents instead of just one, and the next generation will be better off. There are likely other disadvantages to face and heal, but this is one that might affect that population the most.

A strong cultural shift to teach the young to have standards in relationships, and to wait before having sex might change the dynamic in the African American family. And end one of the biggest disadvantages running rampant in the black lives matter movements.

More black people in the US are killed by other black people, then by cops or by white people. In my opinion if the black lives matter movements want to enact change they need to start by fighting for stable 2 parent families to be the norm.

What hope is there when the problem points the finger at others as being the problem. This Leftist mentality is the cause of these perpetual problems !
Racists accusing others as being racist ! Even initiative to do well is now racist ! To fight against Racism is now racist ! People have become irreversibly stupid !

.

Dear Not_Now.Soon,

.

You wrote :

« As best I can tell, the disadvantages in African Americian communities comes down to disadvantaged lives on a large scale. Start at the family unit and work to have more stable households with two parents instead of just one, and the next generation will be better off. There are likely other disadvantages to face and heal, but this is one that might affect that population the most »
.

Unfortunately, Not_Now.Soon, racial discrimination and poverty create frustration, despair and conflictual relations in many coloured (not just black) families, and lead to their ultimate breakdown.

Discrimination and poverty – injustice and inequality – are the root causes that need to be eliminated or, at least, drastically reduced if the family units are to have any chance at all of remaining intact and flourishing.

That’s where you have to start.

The current mass nation-wide protests in the US following the police killing of George Floyd, an African American (suspected of presenting a counterfeit $20 bill in a supermarket) by slow suffocation in the street, seems to have awakened the consciences of a vast majority of Americans.

Time will tell if it leads to any significant improvement in the lives of America’s coloured citizens and their families.

.

Foxy wrote:"You accuse me of making things up but defend Donald Trump?"

Well I didn't ACCUSE you. I DEMONSTRATED that you fudged the data to make it better suit your purposes.

And I don't defend Trump, I defend his policies. You won't understand the difference so I won't bother expounding.

I also defend the truth, so when I see someone just making stuff up in service to their Trump Derangement Syndrome, I call it out.

NNS,

I think you are on the money there.

It is a well-established fact that one of the greatest disadvantages for both adults and children is a dysfunctional family life. Children always do better when they grow up with a father and mother in the household. Women living as single parents are at particular disadvantage. Men living alone, separated from a family or family life, have lower health and life expectancy.

In the 1950s, blacks had higher marriage rates than whites. A black child was more likely to grow up with his biological father and mother than was a white child.

Consequently, black economic disadvantage was much lower in the 1950s than today. A greater proportion of blacks were moving out of poverty than whites and the black middle class was growing faster than the white middle class.

That all changed in the 1960s with various policy changes that attacked the family. It had a very much greater effect on black than white families and now black kids are more likely to not know their father.

Also welfare policies turned poor blacks into government supplicants, totally dependent on the government and government handouts.

All of these disastrous policies were advanced much more thoroughly in Democrat controlled regions than Republican controlled regions. So today you see parts of the US that haven't had any state or city Republican leader for over 50 years - eg Minneapolis, the epicentre of the riots.

That is why the riots, almost exclusively, have occurred in Democrat controlled regions. Blacks in Republican controlled regions do better economically and socially, have less reason to complain and less inclination to destroy their own neighbourhoods.

There is some indication that some of the blacks in these Democrat controlled regions were beginning to realise how they'd been used by the Democrats for decades and were rethinking their political positions. Maybe the riots will re-radicalise these people, and that is why the Democrat leadership encourgaed and enabled the outbreaks of lawlessness.

Not, Now Soon,
Your suggestion of concentration on family life will
help a lot.
However it cannot improve the situation which is a politically
incorrect cause that is unmentionable.

mhaze,

Actually you did not demonstrate anything of the
kind.

However having delusions of adequacy is something
you have in common with the US President so your
reactions are perfectly normal. Understandable?
Not so much.

Foxy,

I've got to say I admire your moxy. People can easily see on this very thread that you were shown to have fudged the information in an attempt to discredit Trump and that you were caught out.

Yet here you are brazenly and knowingly asserting the opposite. Kudos

mhaze,

Right back at you.

You too have chutzpah!

Dear Foxy,

Please don't ever concede to mhaze, you will find he inevitably is talking out his backside.

There is a single group who on their own have taken out 208 lawsuits against Trump winning 9 out of very 10 that have been resolved.

There are many more than 169 suits AGAINST the clown as mhaze undoubtedly aware. You were significantly underestimating the number.
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/campaigns/trump_lawsuits/index.html

I just read something interesting.
It seems that the majority of black children in US grow up with a
mother only. This appears to be the normal because government assistance
is not available if there is a man in the home. So the men desert.
Also, it appears that the English spoken in these homes is ungrammatical
and not really usable.
I have noticed how hard it is to understand some US blacks on the TV.
That would hold back anyone.

Dear Steele,

I noticed you've been posting less on the forum.

I've missed your postings.

We need you.

Bazz,

There are many accents that are hard to understand.
Scottish, Irish, German, come to mind. And then of course you
get the various dialects in Britain itself. But that's
true of many languages. I recently met a chap at the
Lithuanian Club in Melbourne and I couldn't understand
what language he was speaking. I speak Lithuanian fluently.
He told me it was lowlander Lithuanian. I couldn't understand
a word he said. Neither could any body else around him.

To Banjo Paterson.

You said:

<<racial discrimination and poverty create frustration, despair and conflictual relations in many coloured (not just black) families, and lead to their ultimate breakdown. Discrimination and poverty – injustice and inequality – are the root causes that need to be eliminated or, at least, drastically reduced if the family units are to have any chance at all of remaining intact and flourishing.>>

I disagree with your conclusions. Discrimination, poverty, injustice, and inequality are un-win-able by just saying you stand against them. Find the what causes the injustice, that fuel the poverty. Start there. One of the big elements that is noted between black families and many other demographics is the amount of single parents trying to juggle their family and a job to support their family. Without extra help, drugs, gangs, or a general intolerant and violent element rise up. Why is that? It's because there was hardship in raising the population when they were children. It's not discrimination when domestic abuse or other violent crime has black people harming other black people. It's poverty, and often a shift in blame to not having a good foundation going up.

If more of the population struggled hard to increase a family foundation in the community (through programs similar to the anti gang and anti drug programs that try to help the impoverished zones in schools, a similar approach can be made for telling men and women the standards they should have when picking a mate, or even a boy/girl friend. Have a stable foundation to start from, and a stable family to grow from that. Have a stable family, and the family as a whole is able to withstand the hardships in life better, and continue on despite the inequality they face.

I'm not saying to not fight against inequality or injustice. But I am saying that start with a stable family and go from there. Without that much there's no point to say you fight injustice, because violent black people kill other black people at a higher rate then any other population kills them.

To Bazz.

Now you're seeing the issue. Or at least one of them. In US politics the welfare system only occurs in an "on/off" mode. Where if you get better to a small degree you lose out on the assistance you need (the small amount of improvement doesn't account enough to be self sustaining), so too often people in the welfare system are stuck and can't get out without going into a worse situation then they were before.

I wasn't aware this included single parent families as a population "helped" in this way, but it doesn't surprise me. There is something that needs to be fixed in the welfare programs of the US.

That said, I think that even with political landscapes causing burdens, if people have a stable family as their safety net, they can get through more then they can without that kind of a foundation.

So while I agree politics need to change and system wide programs that make it worse need to change. I know that often the politicians will bicker about what changes to do, and spin their wheels. Start with a stable family foundation, and that should help and be a quicker fix, then trying to change all the broken and corrupt politics.

Either way. I like what you've found. Means looking at the problem and looking for solutions,min stead of just throwing supportive gestures towards the black lives that are, as a demographic, worse off then many other demographics.

.

Dear mhaze,

.

That’s an interesting historical analysis you made (page 45). However, I’m not so sure the 1950s were all that advantageous for the black community in the US.

According to an article in encyclopedia.com :

« Republican Dwight Eisenhower earned an easy victory in the 1952 presidential race, beating Democrat Adlai Stevenson. The 1956 election saw the same two opponents, and the same results.

« Of all the domestic political issues facing the United States during the 1950s, the one that was most far-reaching involved the escalating Civil Rights movement. Until the 1950s, America was almost completely a segregated society. Blacks and whites went to separate schools, ate at different restaurants, and lived in different neighbourhoods. However, separate did not necessarily mean equal. The 1954 Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas U.S. Supreme Court decision decreed that separate was unequal with regard to segregated schools. This decision would be a milestone in equal rights for black Americans in all aspects of national life »

As for the 1960s, history.com indicates :

« On November 22, 1963, John F Kennedy was shot and killed. Lyndon B. Johnson was sworn in as president later that day aboard Air Force One.

« Soon after taking office, Johnson declared a “War on Poverty”. He actively pushed Congress to pass legislation attacking illiteracy, unemployment and racial discrimination.

« After routing Republican candidate Barry Goldwater by more than 15 million votes in the 1964 presidential election, Johnson introduced a slate of new reforms that he said would build a “Great Society” for all Americans.

« His ambitious legislative agenda created the Medicare and Medicaid programs to provide federal health insurance for elderly and poor Americans. It also included measures aimed at improving education, preventing crime and reducing air and water pollution.

« Johnson also made great strides in attacking racial discrimination by signing the historic Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965. His wide-reaching achievements improved the lives of millions of Americans and contributed to economic growth and prosperity »

.

(Continued …)

.

.

(Continued …)

.

Naturally, I agree with you and NNS that, ideally, the best family structure to raise a child is in a two-parent family, but on one crucial condition : that they live in relative harmony.

Unfortunately, the harsh reality of life in many disadvantaged communities is so oppressive that separation is a form of salvation. Living in the constant terror of domestic violence, drug and alcohol addiction, incest and child abuse causes far greater harm to children than simply being raised by a single parent.

Another factor that merits consideration is the different psychosociological effect of single parenting on Afro-American children compared to white children. Christina Cross, a postdoctoral fellow in the department of sociology at Harvard University in the US studied this factor and comments as follows :

« Because of historic and contemporary structural racism, black youths are more likely to be exposed to socioeconomically stressful environments than are white youths. Some scholars predict that the additional stress incurred by living apart from a parent is only marginally impactful, above and beyond the existing disadvantages. Other researchers point to the fact that black families tend to live closer to extended relatives than do white families and that they exchange substantially more emotional and practical support. Greater involvement in extended family networks may protect against some of the negative effects associated with parental absence from the home.

« Blindly promoting the merits of marriage and the two-parent family is not the answer. My research shows that differences in access to resources largely explain the relationship between family structure and outcomes for black youth. If this is the case, then what deserves policy attention is not black families’ deviation from the two-parent family model but rather structural barriers such as housing segregation and employment discrimination that produce and maintain racialized inequalities in family life »

.

Banjo,

I wasn't for a moment suggesting that things were all sunshine and rainbows for the black community back in the 1950s. Far from it.

But they were, in those days, on a path out of disproportionate disadvantage and as a demographic they were doing better and advancing more quickly than other demographics. Things weren't ideal but they were improving.

But that all unravelled in the 1960's with the combined blows of the so-called Civil Society (which achieved the opposite of its claimed intentions) and the attacks on the foundations of family (which affected the black demographic much worse than others).

So my point was that the path out of poverty for the black community doesn't lie with more government programmes and handouts but with an effort to strengthen the black family.

Earlier in this thread I linked to a story about a black father, a family man whose house had been burned down during the riots - quite how that helped racial harmony is something only a so-called progressive would understand. That man, raising 5 kids with his wife, was working on an old house he' bought and was trying to bring it up to code so that his family would have a home. THAT'S the type of man who should be the future and the face of the black community, not some lout with a brick and a stolen HDTV.

PS on that gentlemen. His house was uninsured because it wasn't currently up to code. But generous Americans have donated to his cause and it seems his efforts will be salvaged and his family will indeed have a home.

Foxy,

SR wrote:"Please don't ever concede to mhaze,"

See even your BFF knows you originally conceded that you'd fudged the data, only to deny it later.

Then you wrote a little love note to SR "I noticed you've been posting less on the forum."

Well there's a good reason for that. A few threads ago SR made some wild and utterly stupid claims about Trump that even he, with his usual illogical vitriol, couldn't defend when I challenged him on it. So he did what he's done quite a few times before - he took a sabbatical and waited for that thread to run its course.

Whenever you notice SR not posting its a pretty safe bet he's badly screwed up somewhere and is avoiding scrutiny while waiting for the air to clear.

mhaze,

If you really think highly of the forum as you've
claimed - why don't you stick to adding something
of substance to discussions instead of nit-picking
and indulging in personal attacks? Because when you
do that you have to remember to be perfect yourself
and that's not an easy thing to do for anyone.

This is a discussion forum after all - we all make mistakes,
but why continue to dwell on them. How about pointing out
something that will add something to discussions or at
the very least make people feel better.

Be a voice - not an echo.

Just a few thoughts.