Ok...this is possibly where I am described as the 'religious nutter' fruitcake that some have long suspected I am.

But wait.. not so fast.

BACKGROUND. Please read revelation 13:11-18

Lets look at this issue rationally. Yes, there are those who find 'the mark' on just about everything ranging from BankCard to Barcodes. Ok..taking Universal Product Code as an example, this is what is said:

http://www.indexoftheweb.com/Patriot/TheMark.htm
1/ "There are 3 sets of double bars at the beginning, middle and end"
2/ "The number '6' in any of the code numbers appears below a set of double bars exactly as at the beginning, middle and end".. so far so good.
3/ Therefore, the double bars (boundaries) in fact represent 6 6 6

or... do they ?

Realizing that in Binary, the number 6 is represented by 110 the 2 bars in the number section which represent '6' in fact ALSO have a 'null' or.. blank space which is the binary zero of the number 6
This therefore means that the double bars at the end, middle and other end can at best be '5' rather than 6.
CONCLUSION. 'The idea is spurious and lacks credibility'. but..it looked good at first glance.

THEORIES abound on the internet about where and who, and when...etc this 'beast' will arise, and where this 'mark' will turn up. Among those theories are those which suggest that the UN will have a big role in all this.

QUESTION.
Can anyone, and I mean ANYone.. provide me with an answer as to why this photograph contains..... u see for yourself.. look at the background....
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/pix/2005/53638.htm

I have no clue, I can't find anything about it.. maybe some other researcher can. I'd sure love to know if there is a reasonable explanation other than...the unthinkable.

Erm, Boazy. The photo was taken in 2005, the 60th anniversary of the establishment of the UN. They are triple 60s, not triple 6s.

In your case, I agree that the former part of your heading is the more applicable.

CJ.. its rare that I actually thank you for your contributions.. but in this case I have to. Thanx.. I was not aware of this, and it does make sense.
I did a search, but could find nothing. Needless to say the 'prophecy/last days' industry will be doing its best efforts to see how this fits in with revelation, and you have to admit.. it looks like a fit.

I don't have any problem with truth, even truth which does not seem to match our 'grand scheme' scenarios.

Lets explore something here... If you DID see such a symbol in a UN or EU environment, and it became increasingly bold or from 'background' to foreground and there was no particular 'simple explanation for it.... would you see any connection to the Revelation passage ?

I can't wait for your answer :)

There is one more issue which is interesting in this connection, and it has to do with the greek for the number 666 itself. I did a verfication test for this (with a real world person), so it has a limited amount of basic credibility.

If the number from Codex vaticanus (350ad)is used for reference, the Greek for 666 has 3 characters. Above them, is a mark which signifies that the characters are to be read for a numerical value rather than a verbal. (this is the weakest part of this theory, as the 'mark' was not in the earliest fragments of papyrus). When this is shown to an Arabic speaker in mirror image, and rotated 90deg they will see it as 'Arabic' with a very specific meaning. You might like to look into that one.

cheers.

Boaz, you have moved into the realms of superstition.

All this 666 stuff is bunkum, in that it is utterly devoid of meaning, and hokum, in that it is simply a piece of showmanship, supposedly portentous but ultimately signifying nothing.

DCLXVI. Doesn't have quite the same ring to it, does it? I wonder why.

Watch and learn kids, this is where a strong belief in superstition leads you.

Bugsy.. well observed, but your remarks are most accurate for those who assert with finality that such things are thus and so.

I'm raising an issue connected to the 'mark' which might be of interest to some. I've debunked some of the wilder ideas, myself.

CJ added his twopence worth and shed light on another. If you want to see just how whacky some of these things get, just to the obligatory google.

Probably the greatest danger to real understanding in these matters (For Christians mainly) is the proliferation of what I'd call spiritual 'spam'... lotttts of information, speculation and I guess in some cases adulation for the alleged 'knowledge' that some prophecy pundits claim to have.
-Hal Lindsay (Late Great Planet Earth)
-Tim Lahaye (various prophetic books)

come to mind.

One thing did strike me though, while most Christians do believe there will be an economic/military system which requires personal identification.."the mark" I'm guaging the responses here to see just how far fetched it is. ie.. Pericles, and you and CJ all call it 'supersticious' or similar words. Now..this kind of thing could well serve as a guarantee that if it ever does occur.. it certainly won't be opposed by many who will just 'poo poo' it as the fantasy's of Christians.

If anything, you blokes have assured us all that such a situation is entirely possible.

CJ showed how the 6--6--6 at the Quartet meeting of the UN was connected to the 60th anniversary. But the point is... "seeing" such a number (they did not have to make the 6 blatant and separate nor show X 3) arranged that way, and thinking nothing of it, would definitely be 'step one' in massaging public opinion towards the acceptance of it.
Yep...I'm being entirely speculative here, and not saying that's how it is, but the psychological dynamics thus far do indicate possibilities.

Seeing 666 scattered around the place would suggest to me that someone has heard about it and either wants to have a dig a reliious nutters or is a religious nutter and wants to speed things along (just as some who believe in an upcoming brawl with a certain religion continue to try and pick a fight with believers in that religion).

R0bert

"Spiritual spam", I like the term and I think that you do very well at it Boazy.

As for "receiving the mark" as some sort of barcode, I believe that it would be more possible for those of us that believe your sort of stuff to make it happen. Many atheists I know are opposed to any civil liberties being restricted in any way, including National ID cards. That sort of thing has happened in the past and we are under no illusions as to how it could happen again. Whereas the superstitious seem to be quite ready to distinguish themselves from the rest of the crowd (potential terrorists, you know) and many seem like they would be quite happy to do it because they believe they have nothing to hide. It's quite a naive bunch you run with mate, beware of that.

This is certainly not up to your usual standard, Boaz. And I mean that in the nicest possible way. Having a discussion with you about beliefs, belief systems and the damage they do to the human psyche is one thing. But debating the significance of "a mark"?

I am sorely tempted to believe that you are simply having us on. There is just so little substance in the issue. And when you come out with stuff like:

>>while most Christians do believe there will be an economic/military system which requires personal identification.."the mark" I'm guaging the responses here to see just how far fetched it is. ie.. Pericles, and you and CJ all call it 'supersticious' or similar words. Now..this kind of thing could well serve as a guarantee that if it ever does occur.. it certainly won't be opposed by many who will just 'poo poo' it as the fantasy's of Christians.<<

I find it impossible to take you, or the argument, at all seriously.

I have seen sentences like this before - complete with the ellipses - written in tiny letters, in green ink, advising that the writer is under constant surveillance by a secret multinational network that the government knows about, but won't admit to, and the writer has deeply significant knowledge that these people won't hesitate to torture them for...

Meanwhile...

DCLXVI

...have you noticed, in Roman notation, 666 uses all the available letters except M? Could this be a reference to the Head of the British Secret Service perhaps? Or to Magedon - some spell Armageddon as Har Magedon, after all. But of course... M for Mark. Of the beast.

What tosh.

Pericles: "...have you noticed, in Roman notation, 666 uses all the available letters except M? Could this be a reference to the Head of the British Secret Service perhaps? Or to Magedon - some spell Armageddon as Har Magedon, after all. But of course... M for Mark. Of the beast."

Actually, it stands for MORGAN.

Consider yourselves warned. If perchance your behaviour evokes an orgy of smiting or otherwise Divine retribution, let it be known that

YE HAVE BEEN WARNED!!

In my business, we VERILY LIVE BY THE BARCODE, so you may well be at risk of selling your soul to the dreaded MORGAN - not to mention regular SMITING.

Amen

Wait a minute, doesn't this book also refer to talking donkeys, unicorns and the earth being flat?

With the initial oral records, the translations between various languages and the mysterious insertions of some passages into later versions, I guess there is always the possibility of a typo or two sneaking in.

I don't have much time this morning to post, but thought I add an article here that shines some doubt on the number of the beast.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1501490/20050509/index.jhtml

"A newly discovered fragment of the Book of Revelation challenges the conventional belief that the Antichrist's mark is 666, indicating instead that it is 616. Expert classicists used multi-spectral imaging to get a better view of the text, which is written in archaic Greek and dates to the late third century. "

Anyway, now I understand why the Exclusive Brethren are so scared of barcodes and are not using them.

I mean- if you REALLY believe that these things are true than the world must be a scary place.

Luckily, on this website they tell you how you can be saved: Simply by praying to Jesus!
http://www.av1611.org/666.html

Either that, or one can do some research to find out a simple, technical explanation for the barcode numbers. I'm sure the truth is out there :)

Pericles.... let me assure you, I'm not having you all on or poking any fun at people. I'm exploring something which does concern me, and seeing the reactions has been most educational.

Without doubt.. I absolutely believe there will be some kind of anti-Christ and a social/economic/military world system which arises along with it, and some kind of 'false prophet' in leaque with that system. I also can fully accept the idea of some kind of identification that people are required to have in order to be a part of that system.

Broadly speaking, I see this as unfolded symbolically in Revelation and various other texts. Note..I said 'broadly'... I've seen the full range of interpretations of the passages, from the ultra whacky to the ultra confident to the plain stupid and even those which I would understand to be an indirect grab for spiritual power "See.. 'WE' have the truth about these things" kind of thing.

Celivia.. there is no 'newly discovered' fragment mate.. the 616 thing has been around for donkeys ages.. there are other numbers suggested also.

BUGSY.. I don't understand your statement:

"I believe that it would be more possible for those of us that believe your sort of stuff to make it happen."

Doesn't make much sense there.. please expand it. Thanx.

BOAZ, beyond my previous flippant remarks I reluctantly have to confess I actually share your concern about centralised control over individuals and entire populations.

The barcode concept is a bit outdated however. The use of implanted RFID microchips http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID is a far more elegant solution. These are a type of personal e-tag and can have readers situated everywhere.

That way, your physical movements can be tracked and cross-referenced if required. Crowds of demonstrators for example, can easily be scanned and individually identified.

This would be the ultimate solution and can easily be implemented under the umbrella of “national security” where we would not only submit to it, but probably demand it of our leaders. How many people who were opposed to the introduction of the Australia Card a while back are now in favour of a National ID card?

The recent comments by filmmaker Aaron Russo about Nick Rockefeller’s disclosures are uncomfortably believable, whether you are a dedicated conspiratist or not.

"The end goal is to get everybody chipped, to control the whole society, to have the bankers and the elite people control the world."

An interesting video of the interview is available out there and touches on a few topics. I don’t think Russo is the type of person who would put himself up for ridicule by going public on this for no good reason.

The 666 reference itself is probably too obscure to mean anything specific until after the event.

Could it be that they are not 6s but 60s? Look at the date 2005 - the UN began in 1945 thus 60 years - you are also assuming that there are only 3 of these - we can only see three in the photo but...

BD, I guess I didn't do proper research. At first, I thought you were not all that serious about it.
I don't know anything really about this 666 superstition thing and can't be bothered to worry about it.

Look, if 666 is "really" such an evil number, why didn't the world end in the year 666AD?

Did any huge disasters happen during this year?
What about on the 6th of June 666?

Thanx Wobbles, I'll sus that out..can you provide a link to any vidio audio ?

Chappy, the actual number has a number of alternatives.. 616 is one of them, 666 is the more common.

There is nothing 'evil' inherrantly in that number,but the evil would be in how it is used, but its use in the description of the 'beast' as its mark, gives rise to the need to at least be on the lookout for anything seeming to fulfill this (without jumping into cloud cuckoo land) I think it is one of those things which will 'be' or 'not be' ..not something that we need to read into every thing that happens which remotely looks like it.

Anecdote. The Post office in Bayswater was once on street number 666 Mountain Highway, they were the only people who would buy the place,which was on the market for AGES.

Celivia.. I think you misread me. I'm saying 'be alert' not be paranoid. I didn't claim 'this is it' I said "there are some interesting things around which deserve an explanation" in the light of this. CJ Morgan gave one, and that's what it's all about.. pooling knowledge.

Who can doubt that monitoring of our personal economic transactions and movements is far away ? From that it's only a tiny step to 'control' of those.
'Control' is a tiny step from imposing conditions on those transactions. You might say that 'The stage is set' even though the actors are yet to come onto it.

Most of what I read on this subject has to fall into the category of 'religious nutter', but we are still left with the scenario outlined in the Bible....which I don't place in the 'nutter' category.

From a Biblical perspective the 666 number is a Christian metaphor. In Old Testament thought the number 7 is the number for God - 6 is the number of man/ humankind.

In early Christian thought 777 was a way of referring to the idea of the trinity (God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit). So 666 was a way of alluding to a human making himself out to be God.

When Revelation was written (1st Century AD) 666 was probably refering to a Roman Caesar. But as Judeo-Christian prophecy works, it also was written to warn of another human leader making himself out to be God sometime in the future.

David
Fair dinkim you remind me of some polys I know. I posted this to you on another thread but you simply ignored it.
- Ok David the first book you keep going on about was written seventy years after his death.- It was then! written in Greek.
Back in those days they thought anybody disabled was possessed by the devil. Likewise with people with mental illness.
Also if we went by that book our space ships would hit rock and the end on the world.
Until the church starts to modernise itself people will bag them
That does not mean the church should not be good desciples of God and spead love and kindness to all.
I have both asked you - and given you along with the church leaders something to work on.
You have always ignored it.
Also going a long way back Celivia had a thread going in which you pretty much-[ almost] did not get involved with.
Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth David. Here I am again David saying yo! over here!
Did you and the church Leaders know the Government are looking at giving Islam free range to take over riutual Slaughter in Australia?
Do you people even know what that will involve?
It will mean Australia is working under Islamic Ritual Slaughter laws. It means we ALL will by under Allah.
Perhaps you wont comment because this ALSO involves the CRUEL Kosha slaughter. KOSHA THE MOST CRUEL OF ALL!
May I suggest- with respect you people start living in todays world its 2007.

Yo...you over there.. Pale :) I seeee you....

I was not very aware of the proposal to allow ritual slaughter, but the details might be worth knowing. 'taking over' sounds a bit much, but if you can fill in the gaps there.. it would be good. I am aware of some abbotoirs which slaughter in that way, but not specific names.

Yep.. to me it simply comes under the heading "Sharia by stealth" and in case you are wondering what I am 'doing' about this overall idea, I'll be out on the streets on 9/11 DEMONSTRATING "No Sharia" along with 10s of 1000s world wide who will be doing the same..and under the same logo.
I'll also be in touch with State Politicians over the next months with co activists on various related issues. Not 'quite' kicking their doors down :)

Chappy...yep, I'm aware of that background with the numbers 777 etc.
thanx for the contribution.

David

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/03/1995804.htm

http://www.animalsaustralia.org/action_alerts/get_angry/

The details are as follows-

The word Halal means lawful. Halal Meat and all other cooking products is lawful meat under Islamic law. If the Animals is not a sacrifice to Allah then its unlawful[ haram]

Now to us I guess its fair to say who gives a toss about a Muslim Slaughter man saying a few words while slaughtering an animals.

The problem is in the extreme want us not to use any pre stunning methods.
You should be aware Halal is a five billion dollars a year industry and growing.

Around six years ago Islamic leaders made it known to the Australian Government they would have liked all Australian Abattoirs to be Halal.

In other words they simply asked nicely would that be possible.
The Government back then rightfully said no.

Now not so long before a Federal election this is back on the table.

please read the avove links.

The truth is David there can never be such a thing as Muslim Australians if the Muslim Leaders of Australia must follow follow allah first and Australian law second.

http://www.worldhalalforum.org/

Rodger Fletcher runs a very successful business and supplies Halal products using pre stunning which is readily excepted by many Muslims.

Not forgetting the cruel Kosha method we need to ask why the Government would now consider putting Animal Welfare in this country back into the dark ages of the middle east.

There is huge funds involved here David and if the church Leaders dont start screaming about Animal Welfare standards for once in their lives they wont be around in a few years time.

This is going to make Australia an Islamic Ritual Slaughter Country.
We of course are not racist but very concerned about such cruel methods being made lawful [or Halal] in Australia.

Whilst we are tolerant of Islamic, as we are of other religious beliefs, there must be an distinction made between what we in Australia accept, and what we don’t. In certain Islamic countries, stoneing is permitted, we don’t accept this in Australia, and Muslims themselves respect our position. If the extreme form of
Ritual Halal killing is inhumane, it should not be permitted.

Many people are vegetarian due to certain beliefs. I am sure if Muslims were deeply worried about the stunning of animals prior to killing them, then it is not unreasonable to suggest they too become vegetarians. This is small sacrifice to a person committed to their religion.

However, Australia itself has indelible blemishes on its record regarding treatment of animals.

I fully support People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming in his/her stance on issues regarding export and intensive farming of animals. Until we treat all animals humanely with deference to their well-being as sentient creatures we cannot consider ourselves ethical, humane or civilized.

The RSPCA would undoubtedly sue a person if they kept a pet in the conditions used in intensive farming; and rightly so. Forensic psychiatrists have found strong links between children who are cruel to animals and who later become killers, often serial killers. Yet as a society, we permit industrial cruelty as good for the economy.

Any voices in protest are either muted or ignored. When the $ counts for more than the suffering experienced by these animals, we are in trouble. This is at complete variance with any decent society. A society is judged by how it treats its must vulnerable. With increasing scientific knowledge of animal behaviour, intelligence, and sentience, we can no longer disregard them as “ just” being animals, or having “bird brains”.

As to birds, it is obvious that certain species would not survive in the wild, and other species have to be protected against preditors. But their enclosures should be large enough to ensure comfort and stimulation.

As for parrots being caged, this is reprehensible. Here I feel the RSPCA negligent and outdated in its policies. Most parrot species live to over 100 years, are very intelligent, yet are confined in small containers, some so small they can barely extend their wings. To confine them thus is undeniably cruel. If a human was confined this way, it would be considered extreme torture.

From personal experience I know that birds bond very well with humans. They need neither cages, nor their wings clipped to be kept as pets. They might fly into nearby trees, but return not just for food, but to spend most of their time following one around, in mutual enjoyment of one’s company.

I see that yet another thread has been hijacked by the SIFs.

We seem to have the collective attention span of a gnat. Why can't we all... oh look, a rainbow!

This old evangelical bar code conspiracy theory is no more fruity than the concept of gods. To say anybody who puts through an item at a supermarket or uses a credit card belongs to satan and is forever damned is absolutely as true as saying a person is saved by Jesus. There is no difference, both are superstition. Infact by the rules of faith anybody can say anything and as long as they believe it -it is true.

For the barcode to be meaningful in terms of 666 then numbers must be magic otherwise they are nothing more than numerical symbols. Are numbers magic? Lets use Christian logic. 3 x 6 means the basic magic of 3 is used , The trinity , 3 the numerical end, the numerological number of completion, the number of death but how would numbers be magic? If they were conjured by a mathgician numbers would be magic. A mathgician can only be created from the power of three because the power of three was on the Tv show "Charmed". The Tv show "Charmed was deemed as satanic by various Christian groups in the U.S and so is evil and draws its magic through the power of evil. The power of evil comes from satan. Satan is in the Bible and so must be true and really really evil and therefore barcodes are evil and shop assistants are mathgicians which means they are witches , servants of satan and so really, really , really evil.

Boaz warned us just in time , I was about to sell my soul for a tank of petrol and the sunday paper.

I should add 3 more points

I am not saying buying petrol or the Sunday paper are ethical purchases even if numbers were not magic in a godless universe.

There are three members of the Dixie Chicks whose pacifism is certainly indicative of satanic idolatry.

When a person turns 33 and a third their youth is stolen and at that moment they become middle aged.

BOAZ,
Sorry about the delay but here's the link you asked about.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1263677258215075609

Cheers.

Thanx Wobbles... good link. Nothing would surprise me, though the 9/11 was 'us' thing... just does not seem to stack up. "A big event" from Rockefella... who knows... I mean.. this bloke is exposing him publically.. has he sued the man ? If he was part of a 9/11 conspiracy, surely arranging a 'hit' on this bloke would be chicken feed.

Still.. seeing how 'White America' treated the Indians... (a recent subject of my own interest) and how it betrayed them.... well.. God does judge providentially...

WEST.. please 'read' my posts.. I did not 'claim' barcodes were a mark of the beast, I DEBUNKED that idea .... so don't throw it at me as if I did.
cheers.

Boaz what is the difference between Bar code posession and God? There is no difference they are both looney concepts , thats the point. It is impossible to deny one and accept the other and any myth or fantasy or conspiracy theory , god or spirit or story they all come from the same place.

Believe in Jesus or denomic bar codes ,its all the same , but one is not more crazy a notion than the other.

We've got a live one on this topic - http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6287#91689

Please cast your votes
a) Religious Nutter
b) Perceptive Prophet

Put me down for an "a"

R0bert

Most definitely an 'a', R0bert :)

If s/he wasn't using a computer, I'd suggest we have the Exclusive Brethren in our midst...

And yet another live one:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6287#91724

I put it down to tonight's lunar eclipse.

Danniele

Your comments are appreciated and noted.

Dont worry about small minded people accusing you of high jacking a thread.

As the Thread is about Religious Nutters I should think extreme religious demands being forced on Australia are very much a matter for all Australians to give their urgent attention.

We do have some light at the end of the tunnel I hope to report on this matter.

I will share with you more details as they come to hand but at this stage we have had further contacts from Muslim Leaders of Austrailia and hope to meet with them in the next few days.

Speaking of religious nutters have you noticed the silence from our Christain Church Leaders in regards to treatment of Gods Creatures?

We have asked David Boaz to take up this matter however he doesnt seem overly interested either.

There must be some sort of strange breed running through the Christian Comunities.

John Howard- Good Christian- Look at the uttter cruelty under his Government!

Labour - Like wise

The Good Steve Fielding- Like Wise

The thruth IS The Muslim Leaders have been thec ONLY ones to speak out about Animal Cruelty.


The Muslim Leaders are putting your discusting Christian leaders to shame!

We will pray for Church Leaders to catch up and wake up and show some leadership and humanity to Gods own Creatures.

SHAME ON CHRISTIAN CHURCH LEADERS WHO WERE THE ONLY!! ONE TO MAKE NO COMMENT AFTER THE FIVE! SEGMANTS OF ^) MINUTES REPORT>

?
For thirty bits of silver the Church Became A rat.
Too Scared to Tell The Government they Cant treat Gods creatures like that because they might loose their grants.
However they instruct their members to GIVE and not worry because it will come back to them. God will provide they say.
Then WHY are you all so worried to speak out against Animal cruelty In Australia?

Practise what you preach.

SHAME ON ALL THE RELIGIOUS NUTTERS WHO ARE NOTHING BUT HYPOCRITES