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The Forum > General Discussion > BUDJ BIM an Indigenous eel trap site added to World Heritage List!

BUDJ BIM an Indigenous eel trap site added to World Heritage List!

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Foxy,

Collecting is gathering. It is not farming. Repeat after me: Collecting is gathering. It is not farming.

Harvesting vast fields of grass seed is also called collecting. Gathering, too. It is not farming, unless you can demonstrate that people planted those vast fields of grass. If they didn't, if they were 'natural' features, then the people harvested the seed, collected the seed, gathered the seed. And of course, the women ground it into a sort of flour for damper.

Or you can ignore reality. That's up to you. I'm puzzled why a humane person such as yourself disrespects and demeans the hunter-gatherer way of life so much as to deny it ? Do you think that a foraging society DIDN'T have property rights, or sovereignty over their lands ? Is that it ?

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Thursday, 11 July 2019 4:10:59 PM
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Joe,

I do not disrespect or demean the hunter-gatherer
tag as you put it. That's a diversion on your part.
On the other hand why do you find it so difficult
to accept the possibility that Aboriginal
Australians managed the land?

You ask for evidence - yet when sources are provided
you don't bother looking into them. Only disclaiming.
The early writings of explorers and settlers are central
to my argument that Aboriginal Australians managed the
land. They described the cultivated way Indigenous
people did it. You should look into that - and into
the work of Bill Gammage and Bruce Pascoe. If all you
can come up with are constant denials - I see no point
in continuing this conversation.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 11 July 2019 4:44:18 PM
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Dear Narelle47;

You asked;

“Yet Pascoe persists in claiming there was"housing construction."
Where is his evidence of all this construction?

Well he lays it all out in his book almost exclusively citing explorer records. You have obviously read about Tench, why don't you read Dark Emu and then tell us where you think the early explorers got it wrong and you are right.

You might even want to wise up old mhaze because he certainly isn't singing from your play book either and he is suppose to be on your side.

“... south eastern Aboriginals had housing of a sort, knew how to fish with nets, and spread seed to ensure there was a supply of food the next time they passed by on their wanderings. Blainey even talked of some south-eastern groups having a higher standard of living than some British workers in 1788.”

Dear mhaze,

You write;

“But the problem is that this knowledge, long known, is now being distorted. "Oh one group did aquaculture therefore aboriginals knew about and were advanced" they imply. "Oh one group built huts therefore aboriginals weren't nomadic."

Who on earth is saying this? I'm certainly not. The evidence is quite strong that there was a mixture. Not only that health outcomes suffered when some groups became more sedentary just as in Europe. Early explorers certainly did talk about the superior health, humour and demeanour of the aboriginals they were encountering.

An interesting reflection is the general overall health, both physical and mental of our 'grey nomads'. I spent 6 months travelling around Australia and have seen how much they flourish due to the life style. Wouldn't it be interesting to have archaeologists in few thousand years trying to find answers about the number of caravaning and campsites which proliferated during our time. Temporary nature of tents and caravans may well be thought in the future to indicate the living conditions of those in poverty or less educated.

Perhaps those whose lands provided a rich variety of seasonal foods subsequently employed less substantial structures.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 11 July 2019 4:59:29 PM
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6000 years ago, how did our ancestors live?
Why are we trying to forget our first people survived in a harsher than most country
Yes they did not build cities, maybe their lifestyle did not need them
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 11 July 2019 5:02:09 PM
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Dear Loudmouth,

You had better start getting stuck into mahze now. He has slipped the traces;

He rightly points out that aboriginals "spread seed to ensure there was a supply of food the next time they passed by on their wanderings"

First they sowed the seed...

Like this but instead of using roundup they used fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QhjzEBpBCk

Still not farming?
Posted by SteeleRedux, Thursday, 11 July 2019 5:21:24 PM
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Sturt also noticed that, "The grass consists of Panicum and
several new sorts, one of which springs from the old stem.
The plants were verdant indeed, the luxuriant pasturage
surpassed in quality... anything I had ever seen."

Where & what time of year was that ?

There were similarities on Cape York/Torres Strait also. Depending in which season the explorers arrived they found the arteas either luxuriant or utterly decimated.
Some recorded hundreds of people on Muralug Island yet others mentioned just on 50. it wasn't realised till years later that people, in fact whole tribes moved according to the seasons.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 11 July 2019 5:50:56 PM
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