Dear mhaze,

So Trump has repeatedly gone to the trouble, unsuccessfully thankfully, of repeatedly attempting to ease sanctions against Russia and Putin's mates yet unless he orders the US to stop producing oil he is totally clear in your book.

Don't you realise how ridiculous that is? I know he is your president and you think the sun shines out of his proverbial but at some stage you really do have to reboot this.

Talking to others like you on this forum makes me feel like the little boy in the crowd point out the bleeding obvious, the 'emperor has no bloody clothes'.

Trump was not charged with nor was he cleared of COLLUSION!

Wake the hell up.

Dear NNS,

I appreciate very much that we are conducting this interchange without calling each other's character into question. We are disagreeing in a polite manner.

To Belly.

You suggest to find methods for a better world. That's a Nobel thing to strive for. I would suggest to think small and try to build on the things that we can do. Start with yourself and what you can do with what you have (be realistic and don't stretch out past where you would burn out or can't afford, nor where you'd place yourself in danger for no reasonable benefit). Then after that, what can you and a community do (if you find agreement with the community, or find a community that can support a cause). These two areas of making the world a better place is all you need to do, and if people from any level of wealth had this approach to make the world a better place then they can act on that with in the means they have available.

There is a risk though in the striving of making the world a better place. That is basically to be conned and manipulated. The best example I can give for that is the debates for global warming. Regardless if you agree with the two narratives about global warming (that it is happening, or that GW is a con job) the issue raised by skeptics of GW is that it is all a lie. A well funded lie that keeps lying to continue receiving funds. This is the risk for any endeavor of making the world a better place, is that your resources and your efforts are just lining someone else's pockets, or worse that they are being manipulated and either do nothing, or serve a cause that actually harms the world. (For an example of that consider how many charities internationally are actually sources for terrorists to be financed).

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On the other hand, the issue of making the world a better place is argued on systematically enforcing a better model. This is where we run into issues of hypocrisy and corruption in both religious institutions and socialist governments and socialist causes. When it comes to making the world better be careful you're not advocating it to become worse by forcing everyone else's hand to a cause you hold, unless it really is worth it.

....on the other, other hand (how many hands do we have) if you want suggestions on making the world a better place I could get behind that conversation.

Last thought for you Belly. It's the same one I posed to SteelRedux.

Why is the focus on Trump so much that He can be brought into any topic on OLO in some way or another? What good does this do? What purpose does this serve? And why Trump instead of some other world leader that has actually committed a crime against their people, (or mass killed their own people in a civil war?). Think hard on this, if you come up with an answer outside of Australians being played and cultural manipulation, I'd like to hear it.

To David F.

You can say you don't hate Trump, you can believe it, and who knows it may even be true. But my comment on hating Trump isn't directed just at you. The thread for this conversation is 230+ posts and still going strong. The only reason to fuel such a topic is if there was an active hate for Trump by at least some or most of those posting their rants against Trump.

Here let me put it in a different set of terms. Recently a coworker was placed in a limbo of sorts at work. She applied for a position at a different facility with a schedule that gut her better. She and got it, however both HR and supervisors kept her at the first location and the same schedule because of having a hard time training people to fill the responsibilities she took on. At one time during this work limbo someone in HR emptied her locker and dumped her belongings. (Possibly because they thought she was at the other location already and didn't remember that they kept her there). In the after math no one admitted to doing this and everyone exclaimed the same shock "I don't know how this happened."

Bringing this back to this topic, I'm sure you and everyone here can say that they don't hate Trump. Even to say they don't hate anything because hate is an unpopular thing to fess up to nowadays. But the only way this topic would have been started and reached the number of posts it has is if there was a culture of hate to fuel the topic. Even if you don't hate Trump, my observations about hating Trump still apply to the topic and the culture of posters that came to the topic.

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I wouldn't celebrate on being polite and civil yet. In a previous conversation there was a little bit of time before things went sour. I haven't yet stood my ground on the points I've made, or started many counter points. But this is an experiment that I'm hoping will turn out alright.

Either way here is the same point I addressed to both SteelRedux and to Belly. Although you have a duel citizenship to explain your invested interest in Trump perhaps you can still look at the point anyways and give an answer to it. Here it is:

Why is the focus on Trump so much that He can be brought into any topic on OLO in some way or another? What good does this do? What purpose does this serve? And why Trump instead of some other world leader that has actually committed a crime against their people, (or mass killed their own people in a civil war?). Think hard on this, if you come up with an answer outside of Australians being played and cultural manipulation, I'd like to hear it.