CJ... do we have to re-visit the same historical lessons for you ?

You know as well as I do, that "picking" the Crusades as you do, is exactly the same as what you accuse me of.

You also know by now ...surely, that the spread of the Gospel to which I refer when I speak thus, is that between Pentecost and Constantine. It faced vicious persecution, but grew. During this 300 yrs period.... the 'message' is what gripped peoples hearts.

The 'Crusades' as such are testimony to the NON violent success of the Gospel up to Constantine. Had it NOT been so successful, there would have been no foundation for the Crusades to be build on which could be connected to Christianity.

CRUSADES..some truths.

No matter what the various machinations of State and Papacy at the time, there is no question that they were as much about 'survival' as anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade

The First Crusade was launched in 1095 by Pope Urban II with the dual goals of liberating the sacred city of Jerusalem and the Holy Land from Muslims and freeing the Eastern Christians from Muslim rule. What started as an appeal by Byzantine Emperor Alexios I Komnenos for western mercenaries to fight the Turks in Anatolia quickly turned into a wholesale Western migration and conquest of territory outside of Europe.

So... I don't see anything there about 'spreading the Gospel'..but hey..if you can then so be it.

I return to the topic at hand.. 'God is working among Muslims' and bringing them to Christ, without missionaries, just like PAUL was taken in hand by the risen Christ.

"GOD..IS DEAD" in the minds of some people.. but in reality, He is alive and well in 2007.

If we use modern medicine it is bound to be more effective than faith healing. A lot of mumbo jumbo coming from the Charismatics Christians are doing a great harm and alienating the Muslims.

Let the West be fair in their dealings in the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. Stop blaming China, Iran, Venezuela and other countries for the ills of Western countries especially the USA. The US should clean its own backyard of drug addiction, gangs, pornography, sex with underaged-children, corruption, etc. Leave the Arab countries alone and let them work out their own destiny

David
Well I know about the fight for the Slaves and that this is the same pretty much
Question is WHY do you feel I should fight this battle alone.
Why on earth dont you help?
Why does the so called good Church People turn their back on Animals

Answer
Because the creeps are too scared of missing out on the Government grant if they speak out.

I say BAN ALL CHURCES To Stop the Government mis using them as pawns.
If you belong to a Church that does not speak out for the animals then you should leave that Church.
God sees the real Church leaders that speak out against the barbaric Cruelty that the Government and the PEOPLE close their eyes to.

Sometimes I get sick of you going on about nothing too David. I am one of your few supporters but enough is enough. Dont pop up a link and leave it to me. DO SOMETHING YOURSELF. You waiste so much time David.
Stop preaching and get out there and do something PRACTICLE.
That applies for ALL so called Godly Churchies.
More work less talk talk talk .

Hi Palif...
mate.. settle there please. I appreciate your support, but I don't go and ask you to doornock for Christ do I ? I'm happy that you simply 'know'. I don't expect you to stand on a street corner or join me in a public demo.. and proclaim Jesus... that would be up to you entirely.

PHILIP.. I hope I did not give the impresssion that 'faithhealing' is a preferred option to medicine when it comes to sickness..not at all.
Miraculous healing has one goal.. illuminating a heart to the reality of Christ, it is the 'Kingdom' of God in action. The signs Jesus did, were to give credibility to his claims. "I am the light of the World".

The point of the healings reported in this video also, is the same, to lead people to Christ.

Those things you mentioned about cleaning up the backyard of the USA etc.. it applies not just on a national level, but on a personal level, to you as well as me and every American, Chinese, English or European.

Let's not take this thread/topic down the "everyone's pet cause" path please. I started the topic for one primary reason. To show that in spite of vicious persecution against Christians, and barriers to the Gospel set up by Islam itself, and by many radical Muslims in Palestine in particular, God is breaking through all this just as He did in the time of the early disciples.

This is why today there are something like 70,000,000 Christians in China in spite of every Missionary being kicked out in 1954 when there were just 700,000 or so.
blessings.

Now let's see. Boazy wrote "If you ever wondered why the Christian Gospel spread without sword, army, hurting, threats, or power....".

I responded by pointing out just a few well-known historical events that falsify that ludicrous claim. Boazy's reply was "You also know by now ...surely, that the spread of the Gospel to which I refer when I speak thus, is that between Pentecost and Constantine. It faced vicious persecution, but grew. During this 300 yrs period...."

Well hush my mouth! Of course I should have known that Boazy was referring to a particular 300-year period out of Christianity's 2000-year history of holy wars, political manipulation and repression of individuals. Silly me!

Boazy: "If you reject that personal testimony, you are left with labelling it all 'a lie' which seems to stretch things a bit far.

Me ? I have no trouble at all believing for others, that which I've experienced."

Boazy has demonstrated time and again in this forum that his idea of telling the truth is somewhat idiosyncratic. That he should regard the babblings of someone as delusional as himself as credible is understandable, but it in no way elevates his beliefs to a rational appreciation of reality.

I really like that 'pick a prayer' thingy though.

I guess the good thing about all this, Boaz, is that if you are sufficiently gullible to swallow everything that CBN sends your way, there is a real possibility that you will wake up one day and say "hey, I was wrong, I should be following Islam after all".

To be as suggestible as you are makes you particularly vulnerable to a good story, so I propose you keep well away from FH - his positive brand of peaceful worship might just tip you over the edge.

But to be serious, the very fact that you show us these gobbets of blatant propaganda is illustrative of the problem I have been trying to get you to see for quite a while now.

We atheists generally have no problems with god-botherers, of any denomination. You choose to believe in a particular version of the supernatural for your own reasons, and I for one have absolutely no problem with that.

But where I see this as a very personal, individual choice, you see it as something that everyone should adopt as their lifestyle, whatever their background, history or family upbringing. And to this end, you shower us constantly with these dubious case histories, as if they can possibly prove anything, or enlighten anyone, or justify any action.

Being preached at is relatively inoffensive when your target is an atheist. But when you are constantly in the face of people who choose a slightly different path to their God, it becomes, quite simply, an act of aggression.

Please, think about what you are doing.

Perhaps while you are about it, you will think about "why" you are doing it?