For such a learned Biblical and Quranic scholar, Boazy seems to have difficulty comprehending written Rnglish.

Pericles clearly wrote "Then why is it that - despite the teachings - Christianity has been used so many times in the past and present as an excuse for violence?"

Boaz would have us believe that such well-documented events as the Crusades, Inquisition, the Conquistadors' invasion of parts of South America, the Catholic vs Protestant 'troubles' in Ireland etc etc etc have nothing to do with the Christianity in whose name they were conducted.

As I said before - garbage.

What did I say about Boazy reverting to Islamophobic form?

CJ Morgan, the evidence you refer to be would be rather inconvenient for Boazy so it's better ignored. Far more useful to stick to selected portions of the bible as a foundation (and ignore the foundation under the new testament) and ignore the reality that some christains have managed to use that same book as a justification for violence throughout history.

I had a great response organised for Boazy re Hillsong on the weekend and lost it due to a computer crash. I must revisit it again. I'm still trying to find out if the investigations into the issue with indiginous housing was finalised and if so what if any political inteference occurred. Some commentary I saw suggested that the issue was being hushed up. The Indiginous times had an interesting piece on it but I've not found anything recent.

R0bert

BD, I’m glad that Christian schools teach about salvation etc; I hope they teach religious tolerance and peace also.
Have you ever been inside an Islamic school and looked around?
I doubt very much that an Islamic school would teach that the hatred shown in the Koran is the right way to live.
It wouldn’t surprise me if these school children of Muslim parents would be taught about integration and the values about peace and tolerance.
Free choice is an inherent part of our democracy, and if there are schools to cater for the needs of the Christians in our democracy then we also need to provide options for other religions.

If you had been born in one of the Middle Eastern countries you would be as fanatic a Muslim as you are a Christian.
Who do you think will assimilate easier in Australia: the child of Muslim parents who immediately feels accepted and respected, or the child that is told its parents’ religion is wrong, unacceptable, and violent?
As you probably know better than I do, religion can be such big part of someone’s life that a person can identify with their religion. Reject someone’s religion and it feels like you are rejecting the person.

Either get rid of all faith schools in Australia or accept that there must be a place for all. I agree with Morgan on the funding for religious schools. One of the EB schools is running a tyre business- I wonder whether they’re even requested to pay tax on their profits.

continued

I believe that if the Koran should be open to reformation or revision then also should the Bible.
Both are in need for an update.

Even in the NT, doesn’t Jesus tell people who have the urge to steal or have stolen to cut off their hands, and that people ‘with a wandering eye’ should rip out their eye?
Sheesh I can imagine a whole bunch of Hillsongers having to use hands-off phones.
Not sure if EBers are allowed to use hands-off phones these modern technologies are a product of Lucifer :)

I believe that most Muslims are OK with the ideas that Ayaan Hirsi Ali presented but are afraid to speak out. Any religion should give adherents the freedom to question, criticise and even leave without fear.
Islam as well as several Christian sects/denominations such as Exclusive Brethren (EB) and Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW) make the process of leaving their religion one with a lot of suffering.

As for violence among Christians, Pericles doesn't even have to go back that far in history:
what about the witch-hunt on homosexuals; gay bashings still happen today BECAUSE of what the Bible and Koran say about homosexuality.
BECAUSE of Christian values permeating our government, homosexuals still are being treated as 2nd class citizens. Private Christian schools are even exempted from the sex discrimination laws that apply to the rest of Australia.

So we do have discrimination and violence in the 21st century because of the Bible.

RObert, I look forward to reading your Hillsong post if you ever can find it!

Hi Celivia

well.. that was quite a mix :) you said things which I could go on for hours about....but won't.

A quote from you.

"I believe that most Muslims are OK with the ideas that Ayaan Hirsi Ali presented but are afraid to speak out. Any religion should give adherents the freedom to question, criticise and even leave without fear."

Point 1.."You believe" etc... ok.. maybe its good to do some more research on that.

Point 2. "But are afraid to speak out"..BINGO :) hoor-bladi-ray.. in this you touch on 'the' issue. Scared of....who? exactly.. they sure are NOT scared of Fellow Human or Irfan.. so who would they be scared of ? aaah..now we are getting close. Possibly they are scared of the same people who sent death threats to Tom Zrika, spokesman for the Lebanese Muslim Association when he suggested Hilali should go ?

Point 3. 'freedom to question and leave' oh great :) you obviously have not been tippy toeing around in "Muslim Village" forum lately eh :) there is this radical...I would call him A TERRORIST myself who is asserting quite strongly that anyone who leaves Islam should be KILLED. He is also asserting that it is the UNanymous opinion of all schools of Islamic thought.

Point 4. If Muslims are teaching children to yell 'F&^k Jews in the streets of Sydney, do you 'really' think the schools will be teaching otherwise ? specially if it is 'Islamically politically incorrect' to not voice opposition to Israel.

So, the same ones who are scared to express support for Hirsi Ali, are also those who would not be supporting Israel or condemning Hezbollah... also out of fear ?

CONCLUSION It is the radicals...the hardliners who we must fight.. and I mean fight, in every way.. verbally, legally.

Robert. You have my sympathy re the crash.. I await your input.

I knew I should have applied for a trade mark.

>>Pericles, before you make a repeat of your 'violence and Christianity' 'whack a Christian' rant<<

The only reason, Boaz - I repeat, the only reason - that I have been forced to draw your attention to some of the less savoury aspects of Christian history, is that you continually and willfully deny their reality.

Your apologia for the Crusades simply does not wash. Whether or not they were following the precise instructions contained in the New Testament, they were first and foremost Christians, on a Crusade, to kill Muslims.

If you were to agree that there is equal justification for berating religion itself, rather than Christianity or Islam, as the cause of unnecessary conflict and bloodshed, then there would be absolutely no need for me to point out that you are only presenting one side of the story.

Incidentally, and for whatever it is worth, I know several members of Sydney's Hillsong congregation, and they are without exception unselfish, honest, caring and charitable members of society. I have no knowledge of the workings of their organization, but these people actually give Christianity a thoroughly good name.

I know that the fact that they sing a lot gets up the nose of Peter Selleck, but in my view if there were more people focussed on helping the poor of the world in the way that these folk do, they can do karaoke 24/7 for all I care.