I think this is a topic that deserves a little more explanation, Boaz, and your help in understanding its significance would be most welcome.

>>Hi Celivia we should remember that "Jesus" is at one with the Father, and though not manifest in the Old testament except in prophecy, He shares the Fathers sense of Justice and Morality<<

When you suggest that he "shares the Fathers sense of Justice and Morality", this would seem to hint that we are dealing with two separate entities. Are we? Or are they one?

If they are in fact indivisible, are we looking perhaps at an evolution of thought: in the times of the Old Testament, it was perfectly OK to go around smiting everyone that offended God, but by the time the New Testament came around, peace and love were the order of the day.

Or if they are in fact separate, then are we seeing a generational difference of opinion? Father, accustomed to smiting all and sundry, at odds with Son, who preaches peace, love, and turning the other cheek?

[My generation went through all this in the sixties of course. My father was on frigates during WWII, and was pretty cool with the smiting stuff, while I went through the peace/love/flower power era twenty-odd years later. What comes around, goes around]

This is not a flippant observation, by the way, since you, Boaz, spend a great deal of time excoriating Islam for the violence of its teaching. If God = Jesus, you have a little more explaining to do about his/their violent OT escapades.

If they are separate, of course, that leaves the way open - wide open, in fact - to consider Jesus as just another prophet, with his own unique interpretation of the OT prophecies.

But that may be going too far. Even if we accept the concept of oneness, that leaves us to consider that if Jesus shares "the Fathers sense of Justice and Morality", that would include his condoning all that OT smiting, wouldn't it?

Dammit, what was the question again?

Indeed, Pericles - that's precisely the question I put to Boazy on another thread yesterday (but which he dodged).

Boazy: "(Jesus) shares the Fathers sense of Justice and Morality."

Like when he ordered the genocide of the Canaanites?

As for this: "If a person KNOWS that (homosexuality) is wrong, in both mans eyes and Gods, then they persist in that conduct simply because they stubbornly 'want' to... then they should not expect a lot of sympathy from the Almighty who has said "This is wrong".

That applies equally to incest,homosexual, and bestial behavior, along with paedophilia and any kind of child abuse."

Like I've said before, more homophobic hocus pocus from OLO's most prolific bigot. And this:

"Anything which promotes the values of Hizb Ut Tahrir (Kalifa conference) is evil. They may not be directly behind this school, but the promotion of Islam in general opens the way for their influence."

A variation on Boazy's hate theme, in this case Islamophobic rabble-rousing instead of homophobic hocus pocus, but equally bigoted.

Boazy's a great advertisement for Christianity isn't he?

Actually, now that I think of it, Boazy's outdone himself in his post above - in which he vilifies homosexuals *and* Muslims in a single post.

He explicitly equates homosexuality with "incest... bestial behavior, along with paedophilia and any kind of child abuse."

Not content with that little gem of hate-speak, he then goes on to link the proposed Muslim school with Hizb Ut Tahrir, while admitting "They may not be directly behind this school" - i.e. without a shred of evidence.

For those who want classic examples of vilification, look no further.

Pericles, for detailed and comprehensive answers to the issue of Christ, and the Old Testament, you will need to do some reading.
Google will help, but the most helpful resource is the Bible itself.
You clearly have need to study the 'Trinity'( didn't even know what it was when I came to Christ)
and there are many resources out there. Nicean Creed is a good start.

Jesus spoke about ultimate Judgement. Matthew 25

GOOD NEWS.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

BAD NEWS
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

CONTEXT "When the Son of Man comes"

So, the only question now becomes. "If Jesus spoke of final judgement, and not temporal/this world here and now judgement, why (if He is also God) did this occur in the Old testament"?

In short, because it was in Gods eternal plan to do so. In the unfolding of Salvation History, that...is how it came to be.

The relation of God to Israel, and those who Israel related to, is something which can only be comprehended fully by detailed study of the Pentateuch (5 books) and an understanding of the Covenant.

No, Jesus was not 'just another prophet' if he were, He would not have done what He did, or made the claims He did, nor would that which was written about Him be as it is.

CJ... it seems that wherever standing for principle which does not concur with your world view occurs, 'vilification' is the only response you can make ? shallow, empty and a waste of time old son.
I rejected MIUAUG ages ago.

PALE,
I’m not aware of a reason for an apology- don’t worry about anything.

BD
Where you, Jesus and God go wrong is that you all deliberately deny the fact that people do not choose their sexual orientation, that homosexuality is immutable and that genetics play a significant role. Science indicates that this genetic role is even greater than the role genetics play in (left)handedness.

I don't understand how you can maintain the outdated idea that homosexuality is a behavioural problem or a crime that should be punished in the face of modern scientific evidence that shows the opposite.

There is a large-scaled study in progress on homosexual brothers that is likely to provide conclusive evidence of gay genes.
Not that I personally care whether homosexuality is genetic or not; it’s only because of the need to dislodge homophobia that scientists are encouraged to ‘prove’ something and I’m interested.
Thanks to false religious claims science evolves more and more. Ironic!

I do understand, from a fundamentalists' perspective, that it must be emotionally disruptive whenever scientists prove God or the Bible wrong. I feel for them.

Imagine, for this moment, that we fastforward about ten years and that there is already conclusive evidence that homosexuality is innate.

This means that people who still decide to believe in the creation story will have to admit that either:
a. God is evil: He created homosexuals just so that He could send them to hell, or
b. God is ignorant: He had no scientific knowledge of genes and hadn’t intended to create homosexuals, or
c. God has warped morals and is simply wrong to condemn homosexuality, or
d. God is a bad communicator, which resulted in errors in the Bible: God REALLY created homosexuals to love them like all of His creations. Shame that Jesus didn’t get this message across either. (Like father, like son).
e. God didn’t create homosexuals; they later appeared naturally through genetic adaptations/variations.
f. Other possibilities BD or anyone else can think of? Remember the conclusive evidence when making suggestions.

Boaz, I tried.

But I cannot make head nor tail of your last post.

Would it be possible for you to explain, in your own words and without referring to external sources, its meaning?

>>So, the only question now becomes. "If Jesus spoke of final judgement, and not temporal/this world here and now judgement, why (if He is also God) did this occur in the Old testament"?<<

Apart from the obvious fact that this is by far and away NOT the "only question", what exactly are you trying to say?

The only hint I get is the reference to "not temporal/this world here and now", which indicates some form of time absence, or time irrelevance perhaps. If this is the case, then you are arguing closer to my "they are one and the same" position, which means that Jesus is totally complicit in the OT smiting stuff.

If I have missed the point, I am very willing to try again.