Foxy wrote....

"You're so perceptive."

and I think you're an excellent judge. (grin)

SR,

Yes I know you called it back of the envelope calculations (BOTE). Since you make so many numeric errors, I took that as being your get-out-gaol-free card. Every error becomes a BETO. But your numbers were so precise (wrong but precise) that the claim was obviously fallacious. The very premise of your assertions (and that's all they are) is faulty, asking me to help you make them make sense is like asking for help to polish a turd.

If you really want to go down this path you'd be better off looking at deficit to GDP rates or increases in debt as a percentage of GDP. But that wouldn't achieve the results you want so....

"So a question for you, what deficit figure would lead you to cut him loose?"

Its the wrong question. I'm looking to Trump to return the USA back to its place as the premiere economy and exemplary on the planet. Or even better, as the saviour of Western civilisation. If he spends up big but doesn't advance toward those goals, then he'd be a failure. The first 18months are encouraging and if he. like Reagan, has to spend to reinvigorate the US military, that's money well spent.

Incidentally, isn't it fascinating that, while Obama was doubling the national debt, on things like Solyndra, the left never worried about debt. But now it seems to be, all of a sudden, vital. Hypocrisy?

"Perhaps you think we should include congress's 2009 $256 billion stimulus package that Obama signed off on in his figures. "
Well yes and I had that point in my post but ran out of 350 words.
I think you fundamentally misunderstand the US budget system if you think Obama was locked into the Bush 'budget'.

I note that I made 4 criticism of your BS claims but that you've sought to refute only one.

Equally as to Warren I disputed your claim that "...Warren has always said it was her great, great, great, grandmother who family lore had said was partially native american" and you've shrunk from defending that load of rubbish.

Dear Shadow Minister,

You serve up Shapiro and Carson and say “I rest my case'?

Sorry mate but absolutely not. Here I was expecting clips on DNA and lineages and instead I am presented with probably the two most hittable faces in the US entertainment industry.

Shapiro especially with his mincing supercilious demeanour spitting out 'The average American has .18 percent native American DNA' which reveals such a paucity of statistical understanding that it beggars belief.

You wrote;

“Thanks for acknowledging that your comments on mitochondrial DNA was (sic) irrelevant.”

I did no such thing and it is disingenuous of you to impugn I did. Please stop.

I instead explained exactly why I raised the issue and it most certainly spoke to how DNA is not the only determinate of a person's ethnicity. For years Warren has said she doesn't consider herself a 'racial minority'

Look Bill Clinton claimed Cherokee ancestry and President Bush posted on the Whitehouse website that he was a descendant of Little Dove Hyanno of the Wampanoag. All bunkum of course, especially without DNA testing.

But Warren did the test and it concurred with her assertion that her ancestor Sarah O. C. (Smith) Crawford was indeed part Indian.

Enough said.

SR,

And there I was mistaking pure ignorance for obfuscation.

Genetics for idiots:

Mitochondrial DNA in a child is an almost 100% copy of the mother's Mitochondrial DNA as the sperm adds only to the nucleus of the egg. This makes the mitochondrial DNA useful in tracing the female lineage through the generations with dating done by counting the transcription errors.

This means that this DNA would be passed by only one mother in each generation and would be useless in determining a broad range of heritage.

(benefits of having a biological research scientist as a mother.)

As for the problems of determining native identity:

http://www.councilforresponsiblegenetics.org/ViewPage.aspx?pageId=163

As for Ben Shapiro, who is Harvard educated, he also pointed out some of EW's more outrageous claims i.e that her grandmother was discriminated against for her mixed blood, and also pointed out that the scientist that did the test did not have sufficient native DNA and had to draw on DNA from Mexico, Venezuela etc. which shoots a big hole in her native US claims.

But clearly you didn't listen to the videos.

As I said, EW's claims are highly disputable, and she has seriously shot herself in the foot.

Dear mhaze,

You seem a bit put out by this. Normally you would have presented figures to refute my claim yet all you do is snipe away at mine. One suspects they are pretty close to the mark.

So to your 'criticisms' which you say I have not attended to.

1. Adjusting for inflation – sure, my first inclination was to say if you want you can go ahead and do them yourself, they will not refute the claim. But knowing how much you struggle with this kind of stuff here they are;

Figures are in billions of 2009 equivalent dollars.
2009 -1412.7
2010 -1274.4
2011 -1250.2
2012 -1025.1
2013 -632.7
2014 -444.4
2015 -399.7
2016 -528.4
2017 -590.0
2018 Est. -723.0
2019 Est. -839.3

From these figures Obama deficit increases equal 190.3 billion while Trump's budgets show estimated deficit increases of 249.3.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/historical-tables/

2. That the 2019 budget figures 'are not in yet' – well no, that is why they are the 'budget' figures, but they are Trump's budget figures in which he is planning for an increase in the deficit due to his tax cuts and increases in spending. Trying to distance him from them is inane.

3. “The deficit for 2018 was not (as you laughingly think) $US833b but instead $US779b.” - indeed which is why I said these were BOTE as they were taken from a single site without further review. However given that the following FY is budgeted to further increase the deficit then this adjustment changes nothing.

4. Cherry picking. If you go to this site and look under the FY 2009 you will see all the documents bear the name of George W Bush.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collection.action?collectionCode=BUDGET&browsePath=Fiscal+Year+2009&isCollapsed=false&leafLevelBrowse=false&isDocumentResults=true&ycord=1391

Given that the 250 billion stimulus that Obama was immediately forced to okay was a direct result of yet another Republican president stuffing up the economy through lax financial controls should mean this stays firmly in the GWB column anyway.

You called my claim 'not even close' but we are now debating the minutia. Rather telling.

SR
You left out Obama deficit decreases , again. Check his opening balance against closing balance. please

" DNA would be passed by only one mother in each generation and would be useless in determining a broad range of heritage."
Donald J Trump PhD, Nobel Prize for Fake DNA, disagrees . He knows a $1m. Indian lab-test ancestry school-weapon when he sees a great one, he put his name on it. Greatest presidential brain in science since rocket man invented star spangled banner.