Okay, I'm going to admit a guilty secret, I am thoroughly enjoying Trump's presidency at the moment. Of course it helps that as an Aussie I am somewhat removed from the pantomime, in the cheap seats so to speak, but even so it is great theatre.

Just today Trump has said there is “no one more competent in the world” to take over from Nikki Haley as the US ambassador to the UN than his daughter Ivanka. He went on to say “It's nothing to do with nepotism”.

What an absolute riot.

The icing on the cake for me of course is how Australian supporters of Trump tie themselves into knots attempting to explain this all away.

Great time to be alive.

When Melania was asked by The New York Times what her role would be if Donald Trump were to become President, she replied: "I would be very traditional, like Betty Ford or Jackie Kennedy." Donald says she's dynamite and with Ivanka would hack into the Chinese .

SR same here same reasons,as well the curtain America has hidden its racism behind will no longer close.
Its demand world trade should only benefit it gets high marks.
And the very shallow uninformed supporters who, while not truly understanding what Trump is love him!
Any day now we can expect to see America trash north Korea in a one day war, in a B grade movie, in that country that has its self become a B grade movie

Nepotism - the practice among those with power or influence of favouring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs (Oxford Dictionary).

What Trump actually said is this, at least as reported by The Australian:

'Mr Trump ruled out speculation that his daughter Ivanka would be a candidate. He said she would be “dynamite” in the position and he wasn’t sure “there is anybody more competent in the world”. “That doesn’t mean I’d pick her ... I would then be accused of nepotism,’’ he said.'

He didn't say or imply that it was 'nothing to do with nepotism', but that he'd be accused of nepotism. For once he is correct: he would be accused of nepotism because it would be nepotism.

However I doubt he really thinks there is no-one in the world more competent than Ivanka. Surely he thinks He is more competent, what with that very, very large brain that the Chinese respect so much (when they aren't ROLFing).

Sorry, ROFLing (and probably LOLing as well).

Yep even someone with as many flaws as Trump has shown how incompetent Obama was and Hilary would of been. The fake news outlets can only display contempt because time after time they have egg all over their faces. Kinda like the masses who said Abbott could not stop the boats. Funny how the regressives just dig in more and more despite having their failed dogmas fully exposed. I doubt whether Trumps wife could do the job but heh look at some of the women in the labour and liberal parties not to mention the greens. Could you imagine Hanson Young in charge of the economy or environment.

Donald J. Trump is a walking, talking, distraction.
He's certainly a sideshow. A caricature of himself, a
parody doing a parody. Simplicity drives his agenda.
Build a wall, shift an embassy, levy a tariff and cut
corporate tax. Simplicity is his antidote to a complex
world. The simple mantras of the campaign have become the
simple mantras of the Presidency.

The Trump world is a zero-sum world of winners and losers
(as it was for Charles Ponzi).

As for Ivanka Trump's promotion to UN Ambassador?
It's not going to happen. It's against the Anti-
Nepotism laws which came into effect I believe in
1967 - after JFK appointed his brother Robert Kennedy
to Attorney-General.

runner! great just as we said and you come along and confirm it thanks bloke ROTFL

runner,

As President Trump has leveraged the decisions of
previous administrators and the Federal Reserve
to claim credit for the strong economy. When most
know the economic cycle is too uncertain to be
credited. Yet Trump will accept the credit as not
other President would. He's a man who borrows from
the legacy of others. Simplicity drives his agenda.

Oh Foxy, envy is not good for you.

Dear Cossomby,

You wrote;

“He didn't say or imply that it was 'nothing to do with nepotism', but that he'd be accused of nepotism. For once he is correct: he would be accused of nepotism because it would be nepotism.”

No he said the exact words “It's nothing to do with nepotism” and here is the video of them coming out of his mouth.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ivanka-trump-nikki-haley-nepotism-un-ambassador-us-donald-replace-2020-a8576526.html

That's what makes this so bloody delicious. I am a bit of a Python fan and to have Trump deliver skit after skit of thoroughly absurd material almost on a daily basis is a treat.

As to the Australian not reporting it, when right wing media constantly fall over themselves to try and nullify Trump's absurdities it shows even they get what a buffoon he is.

Pure gold.

And runner's efforts here just add to it. I used to flick over his post but now I get a kick out of seeing what diversion or absolution he offers us on Trump's shenanigans. I love it when he resorts to the “fake news” mantra even though yet again we have video of Trump being Trump.

“It's nothing to do with nepotism”

Delightful.

Thanks Steele, I don't usually trust The Australian, so I should have checked further. Anyway I am happy to retract my comment that Trump actually got one thing correct! Of course, appointing Ivanka would have everything to do with nepotism.

My theory as to why so many Americans love Trump is that they really miss being a monarchy and having a royal family. When they revolted against Britain, they could have set up their own monarchy, but the tenor of the times was republicanism (perhaps if the America had been colonised by Europe a few hundred years earlier?)

Past presidential families have been adulated like royal families, with speculation about potential dynasties. But Trump and his family are the closest yet, because he acts like a king, though a mad one. Of course, if you're going to have a fake king, the madder, the better! Perhaps he is the equivalent of George III, who beat Napoleon but, ironically, lost the Americas. He was highly popular but a target of satire, and went mad in his 70s. Still, his grand-daughter was Queen Victoria, so maybe there's hope for Ivanka yet.

It's nothing to do with nepotism if its royalty , Ivanka would be princess and Melania's son is a Barron.
Elizabeth Christ Trump (born Elisabeth Christ) is considered the matriarch of the Trump family. She married Frederick Trump in 1902.

Royalty is just institutionalised nepotism!

No it came from Popes appointing their sons and nephews. As a Christ, Trump has a chance.

Dynastic rule - where power was handed down in families - long predates the popes. Think of the Chinese dynasties and the Egyptian Pharoahs. The most interesting parallel with America is the Roman Empire where a republic was replaced by the dynastic rule of a series of imperial families. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_emperors#(27_BC_–_68_AD)_Julio-Claudian_dynasty.

Trump's leading most of you by the nose. I find that amusing to watch. But my better angels suggested I post this link. Might give you a better understanding what he is about. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/the-times/crazed-liberal-critics-only-give-donald-trump-a-boost/news-story/3f9b6b0daf43908814f4139a258454ef

Cossomby
The term "nepotism" relates to Popes and even "Julius Nepos who was appointed Western Roman Emperor in early 474 by the Eastern Roman Emperor Leo I. Nepos was married to Leo's niece, but also himself was the nephew of the sovereign governor of Dalmatia, Marcellinus, hence nepos — "nephew"."

Caesars were not royals and chose successors at will which was nepotism. A "king" by definition is a "kinsman" and passes on his property to family which is lawful and not fake trumped-up nepotism.

Graham Y,

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/the-times/crazed-liberal-critics-only-give-donald-trump-a-boost/news-story/3f9b6b0daf43908814f4139a258454ef

Fixed it for you; didn't you know that the 's' must be knocked off of 'https' to get the link to come up workable?

It's an OLO thing.

It's not fixed it's the ABC bias . The site has a message from our sponsor:
DONALD TRUMP

Do you believe it? The Australian brought thousands of readers here and there's nothing. Why? I will study this dumb broken link.

one thing for sure Steelie and that is we are both entertained by Trump. He dishes up a lot of treets.

As a totally twisted Liberal [term used for anyone who cares for others] Trump amuses me, nearly as much as thinking how his supporters will handle his down fall.
Too for conning America in to thinking they are not in mental decline

'As a totally twisted Liberal [term used for anyone who cares for others] Trump amuses me, nearly as much as thinking how his supporters will handle his down fall'

you can be sure Belly that his supporters won't be tantrum throwing thugs like Hilary supporters. They were and are a total disgrace.

'Too for conning America in to thinking they are not in mental decline'.
Their bottom has fallen out like France and they think they still have one.

Dear GrahamY,

Your link is behind a paywall I'm afraid.

As to Trump leading people by the nose he sure is. His rusted on supporters are allowing themselves to be lead into a place where the cost of cutting him loose is just to high to their self esteem to contemplate.

What Trump does understand is ratings and like any series it has to be bigger and better to keep an audience. The problem is that his shtich is just becoming amusing rather than worrying, and to some just plain boring.

“A senior White House official told Politico that officials planned "to look into" Fox News deciding to cut away from presidential rallies, suggesting that Bill Shine, the White House communications director and former Fox News president, would get in touch with his former colleagues. But Politico already did that, and the answer seems to be a combination or low ratings, the repetitive and scripted nature of Trump's speeches, the loss of revenue from commercials, and some discomfort with handing over the network's prime time to the president, even a simpatico president like Trump.”
http://theweek.com/speedreads/801331/white-house-look-into-fox-news-worrisome-decision-stop-broadcasting-trumps-rallies

I find it pretty difficult to get stirred up politically about anything he says or does now. What I am finding very amusing though is how his followers have to work harder and harder to justify their adulation of the bloke. His every absurdity just keeps putting coals under their feet.

And I now starting to get disappointed when he gets reined in. For instance when his son-in-law's security clearance got degraded I felt a little cheated.

We have at least another couple of years of this and barring him blowing the joint up we should allow ourselves the luxury of enjoying the ride.

Belly said- "Trump amuses me, nearly as much as thinking how his supporters will handle his down fall."

Answer- US politics is a little different from Australia- You could argue that in the US a fail is when they don't get a second term.

As Elon Musk says sometimes you see problems in the world that are difficult- but are too important not to try.

It shows great courage to face horror- Donald Trump has many faults- sometimes in war these are the people that man the lines when everyone else has run away.

In war hate is everywhere- war is hell son.

We need Donald Trump to bring sanity to the world.

CM thanks, always like to read allsides, runner, thanks too you constantly confirm my views about Trump supporters.
Nicknamenick? what can I say? yes I did use the term bottom, in expressing the view the $&^ did not fall out of France because they became a republic.
However the ROTFL must stop! at my age that much fun hurts.
took 20 minutes and the help of two mini Fox Terriers to get back to the key board after reading about Trump this morning.
That supporter intent on proving my point Kayn West visited him,
And his words about that central bank? well that bank should not be privately owned, it is real reason to fear America.
But Trump has been bankrupt so often he is not the man to run a country,s banks

//We need Donald Trump to bring sanity to the world.//

That may well be what we need; sadly it's not what we've got thus far and I can't see that changing.

I'll consider jumping off the Trump train after the midterms, providing Hillary isn't positioning herself for 2020.
http://www.nationalreview.com/2018/10/run-hillary-run/amp/

I got what I wanted, some pushback against the progressives.

Will never support Democrats;
But not keen on Trumps neoconservative foreign policy either.

To Armchair Critic- Yes if it's annoying the progressives it has to be good. Strategy of a war of attrition.

Dear belly,

I know what you mean. Now when I learn someone is a Trump supporter my first instinct it to give them a gentle pat on the head. I kind of get what they must be going through it isn't empathy as much as sympathy. Some of his actions must be doing their heads in.

Dear Canem Malum,

What on earth are you talking about mate? What war? War hate? War hell? War of attrition? What lines is Trump supposedly manning and why are you using war rhetoric to make your point?

You really don't need to dial this stuff up but I understand why you do. We get who and what Trump is and jingoistic narratives to justify your support of the man is an exact symptom of what I have been talking about.

I think the term is cognitive dissonance.

I will admit a little unease in finding enjoyment in the growing discomfort of the Trumpites and I will try not to over do it but a little restraint on your side would definitely assist.

Emperor Donald may not be deified in his lifetime but Rocket Man Kim is, bless his haircut , and practices uncle-sacrifice to the Kim Trinity. So far Mr Pres is a Great , not bad after 2 years in the White Temple and blessing America the Beatified. Some of Kim's glory may rub off with hand shakes and palm-greasing.

Dear Cossomby,

You wrote;

“My theory as to why so many Americans love Trump is that they really miss being a monarchy and having a royal family.”

Let me give your theory some wings my friend.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/donald-trump-bleinheim-dinner-guests-great-bloodlines-2018-10?r=US&IR=T

To have Trump talking about 'great bloodlines' and 'amazing DNA' probably illustrates he is thinking along the same lines.

One has to wonder how much he is preparing his daughter for a presidential run in the future. Princess Ivanka. I suppose the Bush's did it so why not the Trumps. Wouldn't the flock lap it up.

Putin's on the same ballistic path with photo opps of crowned patriarchs . Dynastic marriages may follow with flattering wedding speeches across the aisle.

Dear Donald Trump, please do not do the Aussie bogan thing and take your dog for a Sunday drive.
Dumping it on the way home.
Such an act would lower your famills average IQ by at least ten points
Thanks however for keeping us amused

Yes I'm enjoying it too.

My son recently showed me a couple of YOUtube videos of those very left, very dumb, very smug media types in the US all telling the world that Trump would never be president. Boy don't they hate.

Then a couple of election might. The first of those smug types confident of the dreadful Clinton women's victory, almost drooling with anticipation.

Then as the night progressed anxiously reassuring each other that Trump could never win Florida, Michigan & others.

Then their utter abject defeat, & the disbelief that those dumb Americans had not fallen for their lies & deceit, & had not voted for Hillary. Those & other Trump haters show themselves being so dumb, living in their own arrogant little world of con job & deceit, never venturing out to see what the real people in the real world think of them.

Dear Hasbeen,

Yes it was difficult to contemplate how any patriotic American candidate would so directly involve themselves with Russian assistance in an attempt to win the majority of the electoral college votes.

And to think pre election Trump repeatedly said the election was going to be stolen or rigged.

The projection by this bloke is unbelievable. Great entertainment.

Dear Steele,

I get the distinct feeling that the US President's time
in office may be limited by events still taking place.
i.e. - ongoing -
The following link explains:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-impeachment-can-president-removed-how-congress-senate-vote-midterms-a8502796.html

Hi Steele,

Strangely, I have to disagree with you:

"I find it pretty difficult to get stirred up politically about anything he says or does now. What I am finding very amusing though is how his followers have to work harder and harder to justify their adulation of the bloke. His every absurdity just keeps putting coals under their feet."

Watching Trump in horror, I despair about the US, the world economy, pretty much everything. In a horrible way, yes, I find him mildly amusing, although 'Fargo' did it better. He is a ghastly, horrible, despicable creature, a rich kid who's always got his own way, probably shagging his brains out every night in the other wing of the White House from Melania's. An utterly vile person. And Runner, no, I don't think Clinton would have been much better. Surely there are better Americans than either of these two ?

If anybody has a desert island to rent, please get in touch.

Belly, thanks for a reality check.

Joe

He may not accept the impeachment . Congress can be dismissed and replaced by Pentagon - great people , he likes them a lot , great , we'll see , fake Congress terrible people.

It doesn't matter if your name is Trump or Smith; make money, be successful, and the loser-left will whine about it.

Just watched a film about the murders on 9/11 amature one but very very good.
Had crowd shots and street corner speakers for much of the time.
While the world was in shock, the best of humanity waited and hoped first for survivors to be found.
We too waited for retribution.
Those speakers, and the general public spoke at times in unfocused anger at? each other.
Watching I found my self saying out loud this is how Trump came about.
a TRUTH, Clinton, a poor candidate, won the popular vote.
Trump, won the alt right red neck, even KK vote, Hasbeen out side of the deep north people think differently about the neo nazi like right

He is a winning whiner.
President Trump said Thursday that his political rival Hillary Clinton should have been “taken right off the campaign” and thrown in jail back in 2016. “The Democrats hated Comey more than any human being,” Mr. Trump said on Fox News, referring to former FBI Director James B. Comey. “He actually did Hillary Clinton a big favor because she should be in jail.”

Mr. Trump complained that he didn’t receive bipartisan support when he fired Mr. Comey, in light of Democrat frustration over the letter.
That's not fake whining like losers con you with.

'Trump, won the alt right red neck, even KK vote'

the KKK came from the Democrats Belly but don't let facts destroy your worldview. Or is KK different form KKK?

Steely you are joking, aren't you? Surely you are not still pushing that hoary old chestnut.

If you really want to look for collusion with Russia, try looking at the Clinton involvement in the transfer of US uranium to Russia. That one is a fact, & not all that hard to follow the money trail, if you actually wanted to.

Of course, that's one direction you would rather not explore.

Dont know why anyone here would have the slightest interest in US politics. Just ignoring makes one feel better.

Its just a three ring circus, we have enough political dills here to keep most amused.

Dear Hasbeen,

Oh I am loving this.

Here is a quick breakdown of the Hillary story and why it has been continually trotted out as a smoke screen to the Russiagate investigations;

http://youtu.be/gFalijeStUc?t=359

It shows how ludicrous the assertion was.

Yet you have people being indicted over the Trump's campaign involvement with the Russians.

Come on mate, why are you pissing what little credibility you have left on running against reality? Well I know why and I kinda feel a bit sad for you. You have to ride this wave all the way otherwise you have to admit what a bloody fool you really are.

So what will be your response as Muller keeps doling out more prison time? Call it fake news?

This is damn good fun.

A hard act to follow as they say.

runner you continue to add to the entertainment, and confirm some at least of Trumps supporters know not much at all.
When that car drove in to a crowd at a protest about the right wing rally, Trump named the kkk types as good people.
He, in pursuit of the NRA vote only condemns mass murder if it is at the hands of other than WASP,s
Measure him against the opinions of growing numbers of concerned world leaders if you dare

Well the progressives obviously consider Trump a threat to their agenda. I don't follow this issue much but perhaps the issues surrounding this can be seen in the following way.

1. QAnon is not evidence - it's a smoking gun. It could be used to find evidence. Socialists have their own ridiculous claims.

2. Roseanne Barr- She's a comedian and an actress. Most humor can be taken as offensive to someone. Actors are not lawyers or scientists. Given the toxic environment I admire her courage- but I wouldn't have used the words she used. Perhaps one of the reasons for the cancelling of the show is because of ambivalence within the cast about their association with the comments about Valerie Jarrett.

This link is interesting- perhaps another smoking gun...
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2015/06/communism-in-jarretts-family/

"JW has exposed Valerie Jarrett’s ... role in covering up a scandalous gun-running operation carried out by the Department of Justice (DOJ). Last fall JW obtained public records that show Jarrett was a key player in the effort to cover up that Attorney General Eric Holder lied to Congress about the Fast and Furious, a disastrous experiment in which the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives (ATF) allowed guns from the U.S. to be smuggled into Mexico so they could eventually be traced to drug cartels. Instead, federal law enforcement officers lost track of hundreds of weapons which have been used in an unknown number of crimes, including the murder of a U.S. Border Patrol agent in Arizona".

This is also interesting...
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/right-wing-media-rally-behind-rosanne-barr-and-her-racist-tweet/

Perhaps this is what Belly was referring to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally

I guess the more that the progressives push their agenda the more the masses are pushed towards the organizations referred to in the Unite the Right Rally. This is what is happening in Europe. It comes down to "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". So be it.

In war the first casualty is truth.

Paraphrasing Musashi- War is an extreme act you can't do it by halves.

Trump is only there because of his usefulness to his extreme right evangelical power base.

They are prepared to vote for a lying, adulterous, corrupt, pussy-grabbing mysogynist, egotistical man-baby soley in the hope he will overturn Roe Vs Wade legislation through the Supreme Court. Everything else is just window-dressing.

Meanwhile his "huge brain" and lying double-speak comments and insane tweets have made the USA the laughing stock of the world and his looming trade war will ultimately damage his own voters.

Am I enjoying it?
When I watch the hypocritical ranting of his tinfoil hat brigade fans, I think it's hilarious.

CM just love it! so progress and Liberal are now filthy words.
Steelredux you got this thread right.
It just keeps on giving.
Gut busting laughter that is.
Soon, oh so very soon as it becomes clear Donald Duck, sorry devil made me do it, Trump is a one termer, those leaving his ship will try finding ways to? tell us they always knew he was a dill.
As any thought America is great sinks below the horizon we must loo to a new western world leader Germany?

Belly said "CM just love it! so progress and Liberal are now filthy words."

Answer- The Progressives/ Libertarians have the same view / dialogue of the Conservatives. Change (Progressiveness) for its own sake is not healthy- Progressive is not a synonym for Good- nor is Freedom (Libertarianism/ Free Trade/ Free Society). They become filthy words when they are misused. Change and Freedom are relative concepts- the ones that are most able to take advantage are those with power. At this point in history we need to become more Conservative- and return power to the people. Where we are today is based on our heritage. We have lost balance- we have become less democratic- and less stable. There need to be more people pushing against change and freedom. There are few absolute good or evils.

Dear Canem Malum,

You say;

“Well the progressives obviously consider Trump a threat to their agenda.”

Australian progressives have been decrying the TPP for bloody years. It was a sweet day when Trump put an axe to the involvement of the US as they had demanded the inclusion of some pretty toxic power shifts from governments to corporations.

What has been delicious is seeing all those previous 'free marketeers' on this forum applauding his actions and suddenly spruiking protectionism.

Of course there has been a mad scramble to paint tariffs in nationalistic colours rather than the protectionism it really is.

It has been a scream.

There have been a number of things of Trump I have supported. I even thought there was a brief window for him to have acted on gun control but he wimped it. Perhaps a bridge too far even for him.

But there is so much which has been an absolute disaster and fine fodder to wake up to each morning. Meanwhile the right continue to dig in hard with their support of this man. Oh and it will not end well for them.

'May we live in interesting times' indeed.

I do concede that the damage he will inflict on the Republican party will be extensive and will not be good for democracy in the US.

Trump just what is he? well he is a product of the Tea Party right.
They being a product of fear and loathing of *others* Mexicans, Muslims, African American, others
Just for a second, show me how America, or Australia for that matter can ever, turn back time and become a whites only country.
Trump farms fear, to gain votes, he farms to those who are? well not able to see the world as it is.
He has been bankrupt more than once
He refuses to release his tax records, IF A DEMOCRAT did that?
Trump is a phantom, he promised much but knew he could not deliver most of it.
Yes the share market is up.
He in gaining that,trod on so very many people,IF you say the sharemarket justifies that?
Remember if Trumps means justify the end he is no better than Hitler

I would be surprised if this thread was not posted so those of us who do not share supporters faith in the man can have laugh about him.
Andust as surprised if any in depth reason most of the world is wrong to fear him is produced here
Right now he is in election mode, for the midterms, a very real danger is now even more than any other time, you can not place any value on what he says.
So from tonight's TV news, did we see that toad? that american woman/thing who said she called the police,after wrongly claiming a nineyear old African AMERICAN SEXUALY ASAUSSAULTED HER? Trump took the united out of USA he trod it in to the ground and gave breath and reason for a country with far more than its share of racists, to show the world what true bigotry looks like

Belly said- "Just for a second, show me how America, or Australia for that matter can ever, turn back time and become a whites only country."

Answer-
It sounds as if Belly is happy that Australia is "half way across a river" with respect to multiculturalism. Idealists. Well I hope he is happy when he sees the results of a lack of discipline.

The US can give the Afro-Americans their own part of the US to live in and govern- create a new country for them. Afro-Americans will never be treated equally in the US- they are different- there's nothing wrong with that- but White Americans have their own traditions- neither should have to give up their traditions. The Native Indian population and other Native populations around the world need to be protected- there are reservations, there are the towns near the reservations that have a mixed population for those Native People in transition to majority culture and support structures. There will always be conflict between different cultures but if you put those with the same culture together and put some barriers between cultures then there will be more peace.

There is always a dominant culture in society- that's why tribal power is better than national power. Power needs to be held low in the social hierarchy.

In Australia the dominant culture should be British Australian.

As the Dalai Lama says "Europe for the Europeans".

Forcing cultures together only creates conflict and fear.

Belly said "True bigotry"

Answer- Well... what is it called when you destroy a culture... genocide...

Families are important, culture is important, sometimes you have to make a decision about your family or a stranger. I choose the family.

Bigotry....

to see the sun and moon is no sign of sharp sight; to hear the noise of thunder is no sign of a quick ear. Sun Tzu

I love pandas -
they're not racist
they're black and white
and Asian. :-)

does not seem Belly's enjoying Trump's presidency like Steelie is.

//The US can give the Afro-Americans their own part of the US to live in and govern- create a new country for them.//

Right, and I'm sure all the white people won't have any sort of objection to just giving up their patch and moving halfway across the country to some god-forsaken backwater where most of townsfolk are complete strangers. I don't think you've fully thought this idea through.

//In Australia the dominant culture should be British Australian.//

On behalf of all Australians descended from Irishmen from the Republic: feck off, Cromwell.

Toni Lavis said- " I don't think you've fully thought this idea through....
On behalf of all Australians descended from Irishmen from the Republic: feck off, Cromwell."

Answer-

Well .. there's a few ideas on all sides that haven't been thought through... all we are left with now is war for survival.

Australia is founded as a item of British Law. I'm glad not all Irish have the same opinion as Toni Lavis. It's sad that the Irish are giving up their country to Indians when they have fought for so long for their territory.

CM,

" It's sad that the Irish are giving up their country to Indians when they have fought for so long for their territory."

Nothing sad about it at all, they're relatives anyway.

The Irish language is Indo-European and still has words that are the same as Sanskrit or easily recognisable as such.

----

Everybody will have a few more years to enjoy Trump's Presidency after he is reelected; if he chooses to run.

I always knew it, wanted to pretend it was not true but even here in these pages it glows like hot coals on a dark night.
Trump supporters are racists
They indeed are being led around by the nose by a silly man totally in love with him self.
Tho joy of watching him make sure the world knows he is an idiot is tempered by the knowledge his supporters are poor lost folk looking for an America that can never be

Trump's Presidency after he is reelected;
If he keeps on making China pay for his tariff-wall they might close on his mortgage , sell the US and use the White House as an airline booking office.

Dear Canem Malum,

You wrote;

"The US can give the Afro-Americans their own part of the US to live in and govern- create a new country for them."

Yeh mate they tried that in South Africa and the world rightly condemned them.

So basically you are an overt racist which is okay as most of the posters on here don't own up to what is self-evident.

Australia is a highly successful egalitarian country. A measure of that is embracing diversity, condemning race baiting, and calling out bullying.

You are of course a threat to much of what this country has stood for over the last 50 years.

If you desire for an Aryan existence is trumping the values of our nation then perhaps a move should be contemplated.

Steele,

"Yeh mate they tried that in South Africa and the world rightly condemned them"

Is that the same South Africa that has a murder rate approx seven times that of the US?

Maybe it was a good idea for SA.

you are racist, you are sexist yeah about the best the Clinton lovers can come up with. Find a new line tantrum throwers.

Is Mise,

Africa has a lot of unique factors that need identifying,
causing huge problems, all squished together into a
toxic cocktail. They've got a lot of variables that can
account for their problems.

Do your research. I don't have the time to do it for you
or to explain. Besides you just may learn something if you
embark on this journey yourself.

The thread continues to amuse, thanks steelredux
Just think even here in Australian some sling the term Clinton around as both a form of defense[ for not truly understanding America] and like a smelly roadkill to ward off comments they dislike.
Yes woman was the wrong candidate, should not serve her country in any role.
BUT!she won the popular vote.
Often say/think we here are not representative of the real world.
But Trump supporters here in OLO are copies of the same in America, under informed, not quite sure what they want.
And do not have a clue what he is doing

Foxy,

I've studied SA in some depth and, if the World had left them alone to sort out their own problems in their own way, then South Africa might just be a different and better place.

Have a look at films of the Soweto shootings, the white Officers are firing their pistols over the heads of the crowd, whereas the black Constables are taking careful aim and firing deliberate, aimed shots into the crowd.

Is Mise,

Focusing on colour ?

Is that the best you can come up with,
as a result of your "in-depth" study of the
country, and its social problems and causes?

Not impressed.

"But Trump supporters here in OLO are copies of the same in America, under informed, not quite sure what they want.
And do not have a clue what he is doing."

I reject that statement... as rubbish.
I've been watching this investigation right here on YouTube progress for over 2yrs, since Trump was merely a candidate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzLtqma3B6g

All the things he's talking about that would make no sense to you;
- I know what he's talking about because I've followed it all for that long.
Can you comprehend that?
I honestly don't think you can.

I don't mean to come across as smug, but you guys are mostly clueless.
It's kind of sad in a way, what you read in the news articles is nothing but smoke and mirrors and most of you all have no way to know any different.

Foxy,

The focus was not on colour, unless you think that the white officers should have been firing into the crowd and the black ones firing in the air.

One of SA's problems is the utter contempt which some black groups/tribes have for others of the same colour.

AC you have an uphill battle before you, see my views seem to be, in fact are, shared by many more than share yours.
A hint that may help, do not get exited at the midterms results
Very many more Democrats are diffending seats they won six years ago, in what is now Trump territory, to have any hope of winning that house.
They MAY win the other house.
But it too may stay much the same.
Was about to launch into a your intellect vs mine thing but in truth it would be wasted.
From my very first post ever, here I knew we have a majority who hold views not now or ever, shared by the majority.
Not an insult just truth, time will prove you or me right,I am willing to be judged on my opinions

Dear Belly,

We all have our own opinions.

The world would be a very boring place if we all agreed
or thought the same. Our lives would not be all that
interesting. Although I have to admit that sometimes I
would like it to be not as interesting as it currently is.
(joke).

Talking about President Trump - he's a salesman.
I won't mention - liar, fraud, or anything else.
Robert Meuller's investigation can settle that matter.
And people believe his promises. Look at our current
pollies - they're also making all kinds of promises
and will be making even more as the election draws
closer.

Look at our football clubs. Supporters are very passionate
about who they support.

As Steelie stated earlier - all we can do is - sit back
and enjoy the ride. Who knows what will happen next?

Dear individual,

You claim you have studied South Africa for years.

Then you will know that the murder rate in the years before the end of Apartheid was over 70 per 100,000 people. In fact in 1993 it reached 78 per 100,000.

Last year’s murder rate of 35.2 per 100,000 people is up from a low of 30.1 per 100,000 in 2011.

Horrendous but still only half what it was under the racist regime.

Facts, damn inconvenient sometimes.

Hey Belly,
When I say you're clueless, I'm being brutally honest and not offensive please know that.

You have absolutely no comprehension of what ANY of all this is REALLY about.
It's about Globalism V's Nationalism and everything else is just playing citizens off against each other, guilt card, blame card, victim card all to trick us into giving up our soverignity for global aligned intergovermental regulations.

"Just for a second, show me how America, or Australia for that matter can ever, turn back time and become a whites only country."

You see that right, that's what some uninformed fool who cannot otherwise comprehend why people support Trump would think.

Don't conflate Nationalism, and the DEMAND that WE, NOT FOREIGNERS determine OUR OWN LAWS, with RACISM you fool.

You think the EU's great right?
Well if you want to be ruled over by unelected foreign Beauracrats in Brussels who live tax free at everyone else's expense;
- Then go choose a European country and you can be ruled over by foreigners.

Otherwise don't disparage Trump supporters when you're clueless as to the basis of their support on the issues own merits.

What should be bothering you about all this, if you had half a brain;
- Is that members of The Five Eyes Intelligence agencies; are working above our 'Rule of Democracy' to influence elections;
- That the media and big tech are working in a cartel manner to demonitise and censor the speech of Conservatives.

THAT YOU DONT HAVE ANY EFFING DEMOCRACY OR NATION ANYMORE.

Just - UN Sustainable Development Goals -

You Leftists want to throw around all this petty crap like 6 year olds like you think it means something.
It doesn't, none of it does.
You're the silly little kids that don't understand what the adults are really up to.

[Cont.]
Most of the things you proclaim are false or mischaracterised.
A product of corporate media narratives for useful idiots.
You parrot falsities no better than the one that told you Hillary had a 96% chance of winning.
I'd argue without any doubt that right now RED will win the Midterms;
But there's factors that can't be counted on.
Namely Electoral Fraud.

Democrats and the Deep State won't leave anything to chance this time.
They will pull out all stops to win the midterms and get the 223 votes needed for Rod Rosenstein to impeach, I guarantee you that much.
And Trumps the one being lead by the nose, and he's probably not cluey enough to out-manouvre whats coming.
Where I get my info from, we're often better informed of whats in the pipeline than Trump himself.

Do you not understand I've been watching an ongoing investigation unfold daily for over 2 years?
The average views for these videos is about 4000 views.
So that makes me about 1 of 4000 citizens on the planet that actually have any idea at all about what's really going on.
That's where I get my info; not the dimwits on ABC's Planet America who show snippets of CNN as news.

AC,

You stated that you don't mean to be offensive.
And then you go ahead and in your arrogance
claim that you're the only one who knows what's
really going on. Well some people actually
do more than just watch "Planet America."
They have access to various databases, and
written documentation and other contacts both
overseas and in the US. My husband and I lived
and worked in the US for close to ten years.
My children were born in the US. I still have
family living in that country - so don't make
assumptions about people - and certainly not about
Belly - who has more nouse than many who post here.

[Cont.]
I've already posted links where Nathaniel Rothschild and George Soros are working together;
http://youtu.be/A3kDcgU5Dl0

So now add 'members of The Five Eyes Intelligence agencies; are working above our 'Rule of Democracy' to influence elections;
- Evidence of a culture of a permanent shadow government working behind the scenes and attempting to use impeachment and COG to remove an incumbent duly elected leader.

Add that to 'That the media and big tech are working in a cartel manner to demonitise and censor the speech of Conservatives'
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-11/facebook-purges-over-800-accounts-millions-followers-including-conservative-meme

Then add to that all corporate elite are working together against the interests of the people - ie. Bilderberg agedas

Add that to the fact our Western leaders seem more interested in towing the line for Globalism and UN policies, and labeling their own citizens racist to promote this agenda;

Then add the existence of Rothschild and Soros and their influence on the economy;
https://au.news.yahoo.com/trump-says-fed-control-wont-fire-powell-165749157--spt.html

Remember what Bankers did last time with predatory lending for the 2008 GFC brought on by sub-prime market collapse due to predatory lending.

And you think we citizens control anything?

http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/cities/

Look how much is signed on to the 2030 agenda.
http://www.bing.com/search?pc=COSP&ptag=D052518-A915F698E57&conlogo=CT3335818&q=australia+2030+agenda

Everywhere
http://regional.gov.au/regional/publications/regions_2030/

Safe Cities
http://www.dw.com/en/safe-inclusive-cities-begin-on-the-doorstep/a-18719719
http://www.bbc.com/future/bespoke/specials/connected-world/government.html

Huawei Safe City Video Surveillance Solution
http://youtu.be/wdTb1bGrYYY

The World Bank 2030 China
http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/02/27/china-2030-executive-summary

Xi Jinping says China’s authoritarian system can be a model for the World
https://qz.com/1225347/xi-jinping-says-chinas-one-party-authoritarian-system-can-be-a-model-for-the-world/

http://www.newstarget.com/2018-08-20-chinas-crackdown-on-free-speech-spurs-rise-of-toilet-revolution.html

Is this what you want?
The only place you'll be able to have a free thought without being persecuted is to scribble dissent in a toilet stall?

This is not about racism.
This is about nations citizens deciding their own laws and not being ruled by foreigners.

Hey Foxy,
"You stated that you don't mean to be offensive."

- Yes that's right, none of it's personal.
If anyone chooses to be offended by my opinions that's their business.

I'm not against any member of the forum on a personal level;
Just against the stupid things that form some leaps of logic.

"And then you go ahead and in your arrogance claim that you're the only one who knows what's really going on."

It's not arrogance, it's honesty, nothing more, nothing less; born from spending years following the facts, which no-one else here's done.

"They have access to various databases, and written documentation and other contacts both overseas and in the US. My husband and I...".

No, no, and No.

Your not going to get the info from other contacts, nor written documentation elsewhere, nor your husband, nor your children, nor anybody else.
No offense to any of them.

George Webb Channel on YouTube, that's the ONLY place you'll get it.
And even if you watch it, you won't make sense of it, because you don't know all the players and don't the game;
Nor have you watched it for 2 years to keep up with the story.

I'm not saying it to be smart or arrogant.
I'm saying it because its the truth.

I might sometimes talk about Illuminati and conspiracy things, but make no mistake I also watch and keep abreast of things going on right now.

And no offense to Belly, but he's living in the past; in a bygone era.
I don't mind people holding their opinion, but I object to carelessly speading uninformed rubbish around.

If you want to have a Trump bashing, then lets do it, I'll play.
I don't mind criticising the very people I support.
You've seen me do it before and I'll happily do it again.

My objection is to a complete distortion and misunderstanding of all the facts, because all you lot do is trade in bs and then spread it all around.

It's time to learn once and for all about the party you support Belly.
It's time to learn that you support the Racists; and you also support the Communists.
You've gotten everything back to front.

The Inconvenient Truth About the Democratic Party
http://youtu.be/g_a7dQXilCo
'Did you know that the Democratic Party defended slavery, started the Civil War, founded the KKK, and fought against every major civil rights act in U.S. history? Watch as (African-American) Carol Swain, professor of political science at Vanderbilt University, shares the inconvenient history of the Democratic Party.'

The Inconvenient Truth About the Republican Party
http://youtu.be/OURy5WFp0zk
'When you think of the Republican Party, what comes to mind? If you’re like many Americans, you may associate the GOP with racism, sexism, and general inequality. It’s a commonly pushed narrative by left-leaning media and academia, but as former Vanderbilt Professor of Political Science (African-American) Carol Swain explains, the Republican Party was actually responsible for nearly every advancement for minorities and women in U.S. history—and remains the champion of equality to this day.'

Rick Wiles Warns: We're in a Communist Revolution
http://youtu.be/_78zwISeluQ

Communists in Congress? Just count 'em
http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/communists-in-congress-just-count-em/

Here just take the whole search results...
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=democrats+are+communists

AC please know I am a straight shooter, in no way do I find you offensive.
If I did, and again I DO NOT, you would know about it.
We both hold views about the others lack of ability to truly understand the issue.
Nothing offensive in that.
Over a beer or my choice these days, long black, we would in all probability get along well.
I offer my best mate as evidence, he votes Liberal, follows the Manly NRL TEAM, AND? IS MY BROTHER!
See? I can take it.
In the end it remains my view, and am never going to give it up,Trump is training monkeys to? well support him without true understanding of what they support.
In all things, the extremes damage the whole,if we are to ever become a better world finding ways [the Trump plan] to divide humanity is just that, extreme and dangerous

AC yes committed that old sin, only read part then posted , then? went back and re read your posts
Changes nothing, still not offended.
No self promotion in the following just informing you about me.
You may not know, but like the eldest sons from big families in country Australia, and my generation, formal education came second.
To working to feed hungry siblings
But wanted so much to learn, so reading books, even two in a day, became my life.
Passed some hard tests on the way, found myself helping far better educated finish exams often.
I know about the American reserve bank, about the generations of Rothschild dirty dealing, YOU AND I are considered idiots if we talk about it.
THERE is the conspiracy! so many rubbish conspiracies exist, the very real ones get lumped up in them as lies.
A very real conspiracy exists, to have one world government.
Trump, by his shear stupidity, is only a blind, people will in time, welcome Dictatorship, because they think anything will be better than Trump.
You old mate are working on behalf of the very people who want to take away all our freedoms

Ah more grist for the mill.

Trump had slammed Elizabeth Warren for saying she had Indian ancestry and actually offered a million dollars to her favourite charity if she took a DNA test.

“I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian.”
http://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/1051836898275184640

Well she did and yes it confirmed the ancestry.

But Trump now claims he never said it.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-says-he-never-pledged-1-million-to-charity-if-warren-took-dna-test-he-did

Glorious stuff.

I'm wondering if he will claim yet another misspoke moment.

"I thought that I made myself very clear, but having just reviewed the transcript...I realized that there is a need for some clarification," Trump said Tuesday at the White House. "The sentence should have been...'I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be Russia'."

Ah a gift that keeps on giving.

but..but.. he's not giving the cash..Indian giver that he is.

I watched Q&A last night (15/10/2018).
Harvard Professor, leading expert on economic
development and the fight against poverty, and
UN adviser, Jeffrey Sachs was on the panel.
His comments on the US President Donald Trump
confirmed what most thinking people have suspected
for a long time.

Some commentators interpret the US President's
outbursts as playing to his political base, or preening
for the cameras, or blustering for the sake of striking
future deals. Prof Sachs made it quite clear that
Trump in fact suffers from several psychological pathologies
that render him a clear and present danger to the world.

Prof. Sachs stated that America has never had such a
"delusional" president. And emphasised that this president
has no sense because he speaks gibberish, insults those
around him, including his closest associates, alienates his
allies, and baffles the world.

All rather frightening stuff. How come he's still allowed
to be in office? Why is he not being removed? What's wrong
with America that a person such as this is allowed to stay
in power?

" And emphasised that this president has no sense because he speaks gibberish, insults those around him, including his closest associates, alienates his allies, and baffles the world. All rather frightening stuff. How come he's still allowed
to be in office?"

People are still allowed to post on OLO.

Don Trump,, weird way of spelling lunatic!
He said yesterday the Murder in his buddys Saudi Arabian Embassy.
May have *just been a random murder*
Bet Pokerhontise, his words, like the USA Tax office never see,s his money.
Think with me here, if the great man Obama, never paid his taxes, refused to talk about it, and had Putin as a friend what would the trained Monkeys, devil made me say that, supporters of Mr dementia [Trump] say about that?

Dear Nick,

Yes delusional people are still allowed to post on this forum
however, -
they're not world leaders and don't have the power of
President Trump. Therefore what they say doesn't
really present a clear and present danger to the world.
It's a different story with the US President.

Chernobyl Day Tour (from Kiev) | Book from $69 only‎.
It will all blow over if you have enough tins of soup and baked beans.

Foxy that post says it all.

You watched Q&A. That wouldn't be on the Green/Left run ABC by any chance would it?

You watched a Harvard Professor. One of the leading swamp run US institutions of course.

He's an adviser to the UN, the most corrupt organisation yet developed by man, that Trump is taking US taxpayer funds off. Of course got what you expected. Confirmation of your hate for Trump.

What a surprise.

Cone on sweetie, do try some time to look at the other side some time.

The swamps were drained by Mussolini using Adolf's atoms for agriculture and burnt book fertiliser.
Nuclear War Survival - Survival, Self Sufficiency and Sustainable Living
https://www.survival.org.au/nuclear-war-survival.php
Trump grows mushrooms in the press room and will fund a Trump School of Right Great Wall of Trump Thoughts and Rocketry .

Dear Hassie,

I've tried.

I honestly have.

But Donald Trump just doesn't make any sense
to me at all.

Out of all the talented people in the US -
he's the best they could come up with?
Seriously?

Plaque builds up on teeth over the years leading to the Greens.
Obama said "open wide" and Trump is drilling down to grassroots.
He may just give them a grinning face if it's not a death skull.

come on Steelie if every deviant from hollywood made good with their promise to leave America if Trump was elected, America would be a much better place. Instead they are all cashing in on a bumper stock market oand record unemployment over the last year or so.

anyone that is interested in the truth of Steelies and then other womans deceiving claims need to watch this. No Elizabeth Warren is no more Indigeneous than me. But a woman would not lie would they? Now we have Ford, porn stars and Warren.

dna tests reveal Warren in a fake Indian. Her ethnic fraud has promoted her far above wheren she would of been promoted.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/10/15/tucker-carlson-blasts-elizabeth-warren-pocahontas-dna-test-results

The hatred of Trump has made many deranged.

"Elizabeth Warren for saying she had Indian ancestry"
Indian
ancestry

runner! brave yet uniformed man! on the very day results are released showing the woman told the truth!
Do you hate all women? honest question.
Let us back up, how many understand why this forum exists?
How the site itsself came about and why?
Then tell me why we, in the badly behaved kids section, seem to have so many poorly informed right of reality posters.
Did we hunt others away?
Or did they gallop away looking for intelligent life?
Bigotry is ugly always, extremes right or left intellectually and morally dumb.read your post runner, what now? you defamed a woman ,most women, in post after post did you consider why you seem to hate them?

'Do you hate all women? honest question'

for someone who seems to love lies Belly its a very strange question. I don't think you are as stupid as you make out. You certainly have learn't the tactics of demonising someone when you have no arguement. What don't you understand about this Warren woman making up lies.

"I realized that there is a need for some clarification," Trump said Tuesday at the White House. "The sentence should have been...'I don't see any reason why it would be Idiot woman'."
Sadly the DNA didn't help her with the $1m., the idiot.

Dear runner,

“this Warren woman making up lies”

Mate, this is great. So in order to defend the man who has so liberally coloured your nose brown you are saying that Warren has somehow manged to insert Indian genes into her DNA?

Lol.

Reality isn't one of your strong suits is it?

I came across a list of Trump's supporters in
The Times.

1) ISIS.
2) American Nazi Party.
3) White Nationalists.
4) Ku Klux Klan.
5) Russia.
6) China.
7) North Korea.
8) Martin Shkreli - CEO Turing Pharmeceuticals who raised
the price of a life-saving drug by more than 5,000 per cent.
9) Milos Yiannopoulos.
10) Alex Jones - talk show host who believes Apollo 11 moon
landing was faked and no children were injured in the Sandy
Hook School shooting.

And the list went on.

Scary.

Foxy

you are becoming totally unhinged. Take your medication plsss.

runner,

You first.

runner please, told you before take the pill, BUT know it is to be taken via the mouth, *it is not a suppository*
Tramp told us yesterday the Saudi murder may have been just a random killer.
The poor man needs help, after he falls will his present supporters find ways to say they never supported him.
Tragic that Rupert,s second choice for our PM ScoMo has fallen at Tramps feet over the embassy in Jerusalem? Tragic

Petrol is great . The oil men put sanctions on Scomo the Sly and he puts $ 4.89 litre tariff, Trump denies everything.

Horse face, a term Tramp now uses to describe a woman he admits was paid to have sex with him.
Strange man
Not a nice man ,maybe not even in truth much of a man.
But he is strange

Yes, I'm enjoying the Trump presidency as well.

It's rare that we live in one of history's inflexion points, but that is what this presidency is. An end to the multilateral post-ww2 world and a return to the bilateral world of the Westphalian system. An end to the discredited notion that free trade is always good and a return to the system where each state organises trade and trade relations to its best advantage.

The ongoing and unrelenting successes of the Trump administration in regards to the nation economy (and all that entails from employment and wages to productivity and self-reliance) , international trade and foreign relations has been outstanding and amazing given he's been in power for less than 2 years. There is every chance that this may turn out to be the most successful presidency post-WW2 which, given that that includes Reagan, would be astonishing and a boon for the US and its people.

Its a shame that so many will fail to see it let alone learn from it. But its well known that there's none so blind....

Just few notes on some of the utter rubbish printed in this thread over the past few days...

1. Fauxahontas - Warren's DNA doesn't show that she's an Indian. It shows that she has somewhere around 0.1% to 1.9% Amer-Indian blood. If she's Indian then so is over half the US population. But her original claim was that her maternal grandmother was Cherokee and that has now been shown to be utterly false. Whatismore, the DNA test, if its true, only shows that she has some Amer-Indian blood. It could be Cherokee but it could just as easily be Peruvian or Inca. In the end the episode shows that she made up a story about he ancestry in order to take advantage of the US's laudable attempts to give real Indians a leg-up. And that's despicable.

2. Re Foxy's silly list of Trump supporters... Its so comical I'm surprised it didn't include the Penguin and Lord Voldemort. Seriously...China, Russia and North Korea are Trump supporters? How inane can it get. Really Foxy, you're better than that. BTW, did it mention 60 million or so US citizens as supporters?

"And the list went on. Scary." Yes, scary that anyone could write such a thing. (then again, since Foxy didn't provide a link, for all we know it was a parody site that went over her head.) But what is more scary is that anyone would be so clueless as to repeat it, let alone believe it

mhaze,

It was from a satirical site - I thought it was obvious.
How come you fell for it?

Ah, a "gotcha" moment.

Now back to President Trump...

One of Harvard Prof. Jeffrey Sachs biggest targets
has been the massive tax cuts and budget deficit,
which he's labelled part of the "war" of America's
rich on the poor.

"We cannot afford tax cuts. The idea that somehow has
gotten into our heads - that - "Oh, $1.5 trillion, that
we can give away," is unbelievable in any serious country."

He called the redistribution of wealth in the nation a
"populism by the super rich," who want more and more and more.

Sachs also added that "Harming our closest allies,
raising prices on key intermediate products and
provoking retaliation cannot possibly deliver higher wages,
better jobs or an improved trade balance."

"The real answer, is to remove Trump from office using the
25th Amendment to replace him," Sachs concludes.

I'm for royals who are more reliable than revolutionary gunmen republics .

Dear mhaze,

I do enjoy how the Trumpistas like yourself reword the situation to keep some polish on the turd.

However since you have just regurgitated Fox talking points forgive me for not crediting you with anything on this occasion.

It's pretty simple, Trump said he would fork over $1,000,000 if Warren took a DNA test and it showed she had Indian ancestry.

She did, it did, but he didn't.

He is now calling the test 'fake' and says he will only pay "if I can test her personally. Okay? That will not be something I enjoy doing, either."

So do you think the bloke you love to brown-nose is correct and the test was fake? If it wasn't then how are you going to get him out of paying? It will be interesting to see if it matches what that orange buffoon comes up with.

Look I understand these things are just diversions as Trump and the rest of the swamp drop taxes to further enrich themselves and send the national debt through the roof as a result. But the way you and others are prepared to shred so much credibility over defending this bloke is gob-smacking and I am loving it.

"Warren's DNA ..shows that she has..Amer-Indian blood. If she's Indian then so is over half the US population."
Over 160 million have Indian ancestry? Then Trump was a doozie to think the floozie was in the wrong half , betting 1000 grand on evens and welshing. The joint goes broke that way.

Amusing but far from convincing support for Tramp he may very well be the worst not the best.
Not as if that view is restricted to us lefty progressives here, the world is concerned.
World trade, what if we kill it? reintroduce Tramp like tariffs and let the best country win.
Tramp has been a bankrupt, refuses to share his tax details even with the tax office, funny stuff

Foxy wrote.."It was from a satirical site - I thought it was obvious.
How come you fell for it?"

Since she was still reticent to post a link I smelt a rat. So I tracked down the article. It was in the New York Times!!

A satirical site according to our Foxy. Oh dear.

Still the fact that she was embarrassed enough by her original reliance on the article that she was prepared to lie about it suggests there is still hope for her yet. Dearie me, Foxy.

As to Sachs, he's so anti-Republican over the long term that his views really ought to be taken with bucket loads of salt. His complaints about the deficit would carry a modicum more credence if he'd been making the same arguments about the Obamessiah's doubling of the debt. But like all hypocrites on the left, he was silent and even encouraged more spending by Obama to try to salvage his failed attempts to alleviate African poverty. Indeed critics pointed out that Sach's policies "although well intended, have - years later - left people even worse off than before". And his policy advice to Gorbachev and Yeltsin is best forgotten. He's just another failed leftist complaining about someone who's actually getting things done....no wonder you like him.

yes mzhaze some of these 'progressive' women could not lie straight in bed. They hate straight shooters.

whether it be Hilary, Ford and now Warren all caught out as liars. No wonder we have such a swamp among who can't tell the truth. Oh that's right these mob claim their is no absolute truth which allows lies to be truth, perversion to be normal and virtue signalling a sign of morality. What putried truth secularism has produced and what nasty lying women.

mhaze,

Why then didn't you give the link to the New York Times
if as you say you found it?

Because old chap - it wasn't the New York Times from which
I'd gotten the list I gave. I thought it was from the
Times and I would have given it but I had
difficulty finding it. I eventually did find it -
It was from a site that is part of
the PBH network (ProseBeforeHos) a mixed media political satire
network founded in 2005. It has quite a few networks that deal
with political satire and other issues.

I accept your apology, and runner's as well.

cont'd ...

Here's the links I used:

http://allthatsinteresting.com/donald-trump-supporters-list

And -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBH_Network

runner,

Does consistently trying to bring down others
make you feel better? Can't you function without
doing that?

'Does consistently trying to bring down others
make you feel better? Can't you function without
doing that?'

you mean like your efforts with Trump, Abbott and Dutton Foxy. Take a look in the mirror.

Well in a way I must come across as smug, just as smug as runner ise mise and my well tested sparring partner indy.
ALTRAVE in there some place maybe not smug but over committed to his own views.
We can all get it wrong, me as much as anyone, but why do we try to trip others at every chance?
ANYTHING I SAY about Trump the Tramp, will cast me as the villain, on this site to at least all of the above.
My truly held view the man is a conspiracy within a conspiracy, so bad he makes any option look good if it is not his, hurts some.
But it remains my opinion,can we continue to insult others for not holding the views we do?
Had Trumps actions on so very many issues been Omamas? the roof would fall in.

SR wrote...."I do enjoy how the Trumpistas like yourself reword the situation..."
Let's just remember that accusation for a moment.

You asserted that "Trump said he would fork over $1,000,000 if Warren took a DNA test and it showed she had Indian ancestry." But he didn't say that. did he?. He said he'd pay if it showed she was "an Indian". So you've reworded the situation from being 'an Indian' to having Indian ancestry. Oh dear, SR. Naughty naughty.

This supposed test showed she has some small amount of Indian blood. But that doesn't make her an Indian. Even the real Indians are saying that. In the US there are strong and firm rules about what makes one an Indian and Warren doesn't come within cooee of meeting those standards.

And yes, according the research from 2014, she has less Amer-Indian blood than the average white American.

Still I get why you are so anxious to make a big deal out of all this minutia and to twist the words so as to get something, ANYTHING, on Trump. As he scores more and more wins in the real world it must be very disheartening for you. I simultaneously sympathise with and laugh at your dilemma.

But keep trying SR. I'm sure you'll find something eventually. Meanwhile despite what Trump said, I don't think he an his supporters are tired of winning yet.

But what I find rather revealing is the attitude of those who consider themselves to be our moral betters. Its is now proven that this woman lied about her heritage in order to gain the benefits and jobs meant to go to real native Americans in order to give them a leg up. She essentially stole benefits from truly disadvantaged groups. Yet the SR's of this world hurry to look the other way. If this had been done by a Republican or Australian Liberal they'd be figuratively calling for the reintroduction of the death penalty. Truly it is said that if it wasn't for their double standards they'd have no standards at all.

Dear mhaze,

You really are learning a thing or two from your idol aren't you.

Slippery as a butcher's dick is the phrase which comes to mind.

You are just repeating what her senate opponent Scott Brown claimed in the 2012 election race. It was fact checked and found to be false.

Warren’s application to Rutgers, “which asks if prospective students want to apply for admission under the school’s Program for Minority Group Students. Warren answered “no.””
For her employment at the University of Texas, Warren indicated that she was “white.”

And Charles Fried (a former U.S. Solicitor General under President Ronald Reagan) who was the head of the Harvard appointing committee that recommended Warren for her position in 1995, said “I can state categorically that the subject of her Native American ancestry never once was mentioned.”

As to your view that Trump was only offering to pay out if she filled a certain criteria as “an Indian” rather than had Indian heritage even your president doesn't run that line. So why on earth do you find it necessary to go above and beyond the call of duty as a wannabe American citizen and assert something which is patently false on his behalf?

Bloody hell you blokes are so keen to bend over backwards, or should I say forwards, for the orange buffoon that it does my head in. How has this man engendered so much unwavering loyalty from some one like you? Very entertaining.

I also am enjoying Trump's Presidency, not because he was the best man for the job but rather that Hilary was the worst. Secondly, the outrage of the left whingers who believed themselves entitled to the presidency tying themselves in knots is hilarious.

SR,

As Elizabeth Warren's results showed that her claim to Indian heritage was at best extremely tenuous,("possibly" 6-10 generations back) Warren has no claim on the $1m, rather Trump has grounds to call her a liar.

People claim convict heritage from 8 gens back and no-one doubts them. Some are having a class action against Trump for blocking British convicts in 1776 war of Independence with apology and $1m. pain and suffering in Sydney jail.

runner,

You make unreasonable sweeping generalisations
with your consistent drive-by comments. You
don't discuss anything. Therein lies the problem.
As for me looking in a mirror? I do that regularly.
Especially since I've got a new hairstyle. I'm
fabulous.

runner is much like a fan of the next Marvel Comic book hero
Gets the words right but not the truth, his hero is a joke

thanks Belly your endorsement means everything to me. Ha Ha

runner,

Clearly none of us are any match for your
level of intelligence.

So Foxy, you want an apology.

You said the article was from the "The Times."

And it wasn't. Well it was but not, you now say, the version you read.

You said the article was "...from a satirical site".

And it wasn't - not even the site makes that claim.

So you've made up a whole bunch of stuff to hide your embarrassment at mentioning the list in the first place AND might I add, leaving out some of the things the article mentioned as the Trump supporter base because it didn't suit your prejudices.

And after all that, YOU think an apology is deserved.

Foxy, I keep trying to tell myself that you are better than this and will show it soon. But you're making very hard to convince myself of that.

_________________________________________________________________

SR,

You now say that its "patently false" that "Trump was only offering to pay out if she filled a certain criteria as “an Indian” rather than had Indian heritage".

Here's the quote...“I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian.”

And where's a good place to find that quote? Well in a post in this very thread. YOUR post in fact.

You're now saying that something you posted only two days ago is "patently false". FFS what a burk.

Meanwhile a real descendent of Pocahontas says ""She needs to... apologize to everybody for what she has done,".

And her real Indian opponent "is calling on Warren to use her salary to pay reparations to the Cherokee people for allegedly using her ‘Cherokee heritage’ to get ahead professionally, which she denies."

And the geniuses at South Park explain her motivation...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKxtXzAgGew

mhaze,

I explained my position.

You still have not provided your link to the times -
why is that - to back what you said - or are you
exempt from any rules you apply to others?

'runner,

Clearly none of us are any match for your
level of intelligence.'

I'd much rather a bit of integrity and honesty Foxy. Very much lacking.

How can we get the lost right to stop reading Marvel Comic books, ok ok Murdocks trash, and see what the world thinks of Tramp?
Sorbent is so much cheaper and soft too.
How will they handle the sure and certain fall in front of him?
King Lemming headed for his clif saying this will be the greatest jump in our history!

Runner, Mhaze - Kudos on sticking to the point.

Washington Post would need to be accurate, not fake, for its reputation:
"Trump, with glee, told the rally crowd he looked forward to making Warren “prove” her Native American heritage on the debate stage if the two were to square off.

“I’m going to get one of those little [DNA testing] kits and in the middle of the debate, when she proclaims she’s of Indian heritage … ‚” Trump said. “And we will say, ‘I will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for by Trump, if you take the test and it shows you’re an Indian.’ "

Dear mhaze,

Perhaps repetition may help.

“As to your view that Trump was only offering to pay out if she filled a certain criteria as “an Indian” rather than had Indian heritage even your president doesn't run that line. So why on earth do you find it necessary to go above and beyond the call of duty as a wannabe American citizen and assert something which is patently false on his behalf?”

Trump isn't running the line you are so fawningly attempting on his behalf. All he is saying is that he doesn't believe in the veracity of the test and so wants to do it himself. That's it.

You have decided off your own bat that your lord and saviour would benefit from you adopting a different tack, to say he really meant something else. That she had to be virtually a full blood for him to have to pay her out. Why do this? Does it give you a sense of importance? That you are manning the barricades with your president? That you will lie, distort, denigrate and belittle for him as so many of his staff and supporters have done?

“Oh say can you see” that you are a sycophantic fool?

" Ok I'm ready to sign for the hotel , $100m. Aren't I a great, great
dealmaker..... What do you mean , there's no gold taps ...didn't I say that ? I did , gold taps. ..OK no taps, $23m. you got a deal..great ".

mhaze,

You still have not given us your website from the
Times - that gave the list that you claim you have.

Also, kindly read the second link that I supplied on
the PBH network - where it is clearly explained that
the earlier site of "Allthatsinteresting.com" is part
of PBH - which was founded in 2005 as a mixed media
political satire network.

It can't be that difficult for you to understand.

IF Trump was other than the latest new thing, thing being the operative word, we would be reminded of some comments he made
By the very people who support him here.
He said he didnot do it, in reference to Putin in relation to meddling in the 2016 elections.
Same words ,well nearly, in relation to the SAUDI MURDER IN ITS EMBASSY.
We fell in love, leader of a nation of slaves and murdered millions North Korea.
Horse head, we know who but tell me Presidential?

IF support him here.Trump was other than in reference to Putin in relation to meddling we know who but tell me Same words ,well nearly,
the latest new thing, thing being the operative word, we would be reminded of some comments he made IN ITS EMBASSY. Presidential?
By the very people who We fell in love,He said he did not do it, in the 2016 elections. in relation to the SAUDI MURDER
leader of a nation of slaves and murdered millions North Korea.
Horse head,

Well this is all very bizarre. Foxy originally posts a story about an article that, she said, she'd seen in the Times and which she found rather 'scary'. Then, after I'd pointed out the premise of the article was crap, she had second thoughts and decided the article wasn't in the Times but rather in some other place. Additionally she then demanded that I prove that it was in the Times even though she'd said it was where she'd first seen it.

I think this is all about Foxy's penchant for trying to muddy the waters every time she's found to have screwed up. But denying something exists when she was the first to say it exists is a new low or high or something.

"oh what a tangled web we weave...."

Anyway, for what its worth here's the link to the article that Foxy thinks does, doesn't and might exist depending on the contingencies of the moment...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/opinion/pariahs-for-donald-trump.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1

__________________________________________________________________

SR,

Merely repeating your error doesn't make it less erroneous. I'm beginning to wonder whether you have the wherewithal to understand your error. Sorry...can't help there.

"Trump isn't running the line ..."
Actually he is but not overtly. I saw one interview where he told the reporter to carefully look at what he'd originally said. But Trump, as usual, is several steps ahead of the pack here and wants this issue to bubble along. Warren may be a rival in 2020 and he wants to be able to play this card then. And she wants the issue resolved and forgotten for the same reason. I suspect you won't follow that.

"You have decided off your own bat ..."
Yes I think for myself. You should try it one day.

Meanwhile, in the real world...
"US weekly jobless claims fall, while continuing claims drop to the lowest level since 1973"

__________________________________________________________________

Can someone offer an English translation of NNN's last post?

SR,

The single flaw in your argument is the assumption that Elizabeth Warren has some native heritage. The test came back with the indication that if there was any native ancestor, that it was 6 to 10 generations back ( 0.1% to 1%) and that the test results were the same as nearly every person of European heritage. Essentially, any markers of native heritage Warren has is lost in the noise.

"At present, genetic ancestry tests are not completely accurate or reliable. In addition, most of these tests are better at providing information about European, African, or Asian ancestry, but are not very good at providing information on Native American ancestry. One reason for this is that Native Americans have not really participated in genetic research involving ancestry estimates, so scientists must make guesses about a person’s Native American ancestry and these guesses are not always very accurate. When comparing genetic information from many different people worldwide, scientific results usually show that Native Americans look more similar to Asians compared to other populations. Further, no genetic tests exist that will determine tribal affiliation and there are no genetic markers to prove Native American ancestry."

mhaze
think I know what nnn meant , he copied the previous post by Belly (Goulburn Jail , Independent) so it makes more sense.

Trump made the condition about DNA test , however dodgy it may be. If he said reading the tea-leaves would be the test for $1m. that should be it , for POTUS , rocket man supreme .

mhaze,

Your behaviour certainly is bizarre.

1) I explained to you that I'd made a mistake regarding
the times. I had no ulterior motive for doing so.

2) I gave you the two links from which I got my information.

3) I did not have any second thoughts.

4) I am not trying to muddy any waters.

5) Your link doesn't work.

Watched yet another doco/film this morning.
The birth of evil,Adolf Hitler
One thing stood out how could a civilized country be coned?
Trump?
America you are standing in it

Dear mhaze,

You opined;

“Actually he is but not overtly. I saw one interview where he told the reporter to carefully look at what he'd originally said. But Trump, as usual, is several steps ahead of the pack here and wants this issue to bubble along. Warren may be a rival in 2020 and he wants to be able to play this card then. And she wants the issue resolved and forgotten for the same reason. I suspect you won't follow that.”

Wow! Mind reading now. Lol. This kind of guff just cracks me up. Look mate you aren't dumb, I will give you that, which makes this behaviour from you all the more bizarre. I get the runners of this world conga lining behind their president but even he has some reservations about the bloke. Not you. Instead you weave this tortuous line explaining why Trump doesn't comply with your characterisation of what occurred with Warren. Your grandiose take on his actions and motives smell to high heaven like a cult of personality explanation that could have come from NK.

As to Trump's economic record it is all a bloody illusion. He has pumped primed the place by throwing money around with gay abandon. In two years he has added more to the deficit, through upping military spending and forcing through self profiting tax cuts, than Obama did in his eight years in office fighting the GFC crisis.

He is a pirate that is all, but an entertaining one at least.

The Oz $5 bill has several security features but the US one is unreliable as Trump's face and signature are missing , it just has honest Abe . You can't pay gambling debts with fake Hilary jail money and not for fake DNA plastic mickey mouse. China will fall into line once Donald is on the cash.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Well that was a measured post for once so happy to reply in kind.

The result of the test were pretty strong;

“While the vast majority of the individual’s ancestry is European, the results strongly support the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor in the individual’s pedigree, likely in the range of 6-10 generations ago.”

http://mk0elizabethwarh5ore.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Bustamante_Report_2018.pdf

“The analysis also identified 5 genetic segments as Native American in origin at high confidence, defined at the 99% posterior probability value. We performed several additional analyses to confirm the presence of Native American ancestry and to estimate the position of the ancestor in the individual’s pedigree. 2 …. The largest segment identified as having Native American ancestry is on chromosome 10. This segment is 13.4 centiMorgans in genetic length, and spans approximately 4,700,000 DNA bases. Based on a principal components analysis (Novembre et al., 2008), this segment is clearly distinct from segments of European ancestry (nominal p-value 7.4 x 10-7, corrected p-value of 2.6 x 10-4) and is strongly associated with Native American ancestry.”

So Warren has always said it was her great, great, great, grandmother who family lore had said was partially native american which clearly puts her in the 6 to 10 generation frame.

Is DNA the whole arbiter? No of course not, there are cultural aspects among other things that are taken into account, but the orange buffoon made this about the DNA.

Just as aside Jewish leaders have accepted that DNA can be used determining of someone's ethnicity. However this is only in regard to the mitochondrial DNA. This was to assist people who survived the holocaust without witnesses or papers attesting to their Jewishness.

“40% of all Ashkenazi Jews are descended from just four Jewish women who left the Middle East over 1,000 years ago and settled in Europe. According to the scientific report commissioned by Eretz Hemdah for its ruling, there is a certainty of at least 90% and up to 99% that someone bearing specific genetic markers in their mitochondrial DNA is descended from one of these women.”
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/New-law-says-genetic-test-valid-for-determining-Jewish-status-in-some-cases-506584

Opinions from Queensland ofter are not mirrored in the rest of the country.
And in supporting Trump, some rely on little more than the mans scrambled eggs words.
Right now, here as well as all over the world deeply held concerns about the man exist.
He rather than improving Americas long term trading out comes be the bringer of very real world trading and stock market crisis
Thought and research, not simplistic throw away slogans are needed to judge the man

Hilary's advice is that gambling is legal across all US states and that verbal contracts which are broadcast on genuine TV are legal. Although the new Supreme Court judge says for Donald to keep his million there are other opinions that the lady gets the loot. She intends to help her Indian Casino nation in a charitable way as they always pay for chips.

Steelie give it away. She lied.

Dear runner,

No she did not and the scientific evidence entirely supports her contention.

Now I know you have a general distaste even hatred for women in power, further you have a general disdain for science. But to lie is against your religion and yet you engage in it here. We all recognise what a very poor example of a Christian you really are but to so overtly utter falsehoods as you are doing would offend any entity worth their salt.

Time to ask forgiveness you miserable sinner.

'Now I know you have a general distaste even hatred for women in power'

luv to see Nikki Haley as first US President Steelie how about you. Or as usual you just love to make up lies as you go along that like Ford, Clinton and Warren as you forget the last one.

"So Warren has always said it was her great, great, great, grandmother who family lore had said was partially native american which clearly puts her in the 6 to 10 generation frame."

Utter rubbish. She may have said this at some time since she's offered pretty much every possible scenario as she tries to dig herself out of the hole she created when she sought to use her high check-bones to further her career. But "always"? Not even close.

" In two years he has added more to the deficit, through upping military spending and forcing through self profiting tax cuts, than Obama did in his eight years in office fighting the GFC crisis."

Utter rubbish. We've seen previously that you struggle with numbers. But the claim isn't even close.

SR. you have so little regard for the facts that its little wonder that you really don't understand this or most other issues around Trump. Your TDS is so acute that no data, no fact will sway your conviction that, no matter what the issue, Trump is wrong.

Carry on mate. But you'll continue to fail to understand one of the most interesting periods in last 50 years.

________________________________________________________________

"1) I explained to you that I'd made a mistake regarding
the times. I had no ulterior motive for doing so." Yes you read the article in some obscure site and just happened to mistakenly attribute it to the Times. Quite the co-incident that the NYT just happened to be where the story originated. Quite the coincidence.

"5) Your link doesn't work."

It works for me. Have you tried clicking it?

Indian kids need funding for math as Hank Burgle was short-changed 2 dimes at the Indian charity liquor mart . That may be so but is entirely irrelevant to this thread. It's not about her it's him .

DNA test= $1m.
signed
Donald Ginger Trump
45th President of The Free World

Thanks for the thread
It continues to deliver amusement and some of that is in highlighting the feeble reasons some have for supporting Trump
Even pining things the silly man didn't say or do to posts it is fun
Watching

mhaze,

I have no control of what you choose to believe.
I gave you my genuine explanation - (no coincidences)
and if you choose to doubt it - that's your right.
Mine is to subsequently ignore you.

As for your link to the Times? It still doesn't work
for me. It comes up with the message that I've used up
my free access and have to subscribe.

Perhaps that's another co-incidence - I don't know.

"As for your link to the Times? It still doesn't work
for me. It comes up with the message that I've used up
my free access and have to subscribe.

Perhaps that's another co-incidence - I don't know."

The NYT and many other newspaper sites (particularly in the US) give you a certain number of free visits per month. I think NYT allows 10. Its a form of paywall.
So what that message is telling you is that you've already visited the site 10 times this month and therefore must now pay if you want to see more content. I wonder what you were looking at those other times?? Perhaps something about lists of Trump supporters? :)

So my link worked and if you want you can check it next month.

mhaze,

Having lived and worked in the US for close to ten years
I use the Times quite often as a source.
But - no - as I explained earlier
I did not use it for the satirical list of Trump supporters.
(smile).

SR,

With all due respect, the stuff you quoted on mitochondrial DNA is a complete furphy as it is passed unchanged down the female lineage and has nothing to do with EW.

Secondly, given the diversity of genetics even within known populations stating that someone is roughly 0.1% native American is pure bollocks. While certain gene sequences are strong indicators of a particular race, they are certainly not unheard of in other races and it is entirely possible for someone with no native american heritage to produce similar results.

That native american groups have roundly condemned her and her history of using her claimed heritage for advancement is an indicator that her testing has backfired badly.

The ricochet hit Trump. He promised. He ran.

Dear mhaze,

I wrote;

"In two years he has added more to the deficit, through upping military spending and forcing through self profiting tax cuts, than Obama did in his eight years in office fighting the GFC crisis."

You wrote;

“Utter rubbish. We've seen previously that you struggle with numbers. But the claim isn't even close.”

This stuff is good fun so let's do some back of the envelope calculations.

I'm assuming you know that deficit figures are not debt and that each year either adds to the previous year's deficit figure or subtracts from it.

The FY figures in the year of inauguration are attributed to the previous president as it is they who set the budget for that financial year, not the incoming president.

FY2009's deficit was $1,413 billion.

FY2010 was $1,294 billion a $119 billion decrease.

FY2011 was $1,300 billion a $6 billion increase.

But from there through to 2015 the deficit didn't increase once but fell to just $438 billion.

FY2016 it increased to $585 billion, a jump of $147 billion and again in FY2017 by $81 Billion.

6 + 147 + 81 = $234 billion in budget deficit increases over Obama's term

Trump's 2018 figure is $833 billion, a deficit increase of $168 billion. The 2019 budget is for an increase to $984 billion bringing his budget increases to $319 billion dollars, well in excess of Obama's.

Now you will of course want to correct me on some of this so I am all ears, or eyes, so let's pare it down and see what we get out the other end.

Finally as an aside who created more jobs per capita? Obama in his last 18 months or Trump in his first?

Dear Shadow Minister,

Having read my post I see that I did not expand enough on the point I was making to make it clear for the reader.

I apologise.

The takeaway I wanted to get across is that only “40% of all Ashkenazi Jews are descended from just four Jewish women who left the Middle East over 1,000 years ago and settled in Europe” the rest, 60%, do not have the genetics to afford them this validation and there are many more other factors taken into consideration such as recorded lineages, the testimony of witnesses, time within the culture etc. I accept that Elizabeth Warren struggles on some of these parameters which is why there is a degree of antagonism from some Indian groups in the US, not all though.

However it was Trump who declared it was the DNA was the measure for him and there is strong DNA evidence to back up the Warren family history claim about Indian in their blood line. Not to the degree of mtDNA of course but sufficient for the tester to use the word “strongly”.

Now you have offered your opinion on the veracity of the test however I will point out that the person who wrote the report was Dr. Carlos D. Bustamante, hardly a run of the mill expert. This bloke was was named a MacArthur Fellow in 2010 otherwise known as the “Genius Grant”.

Forgive me but I am going to lean toward his learned offering before yours. Nothing personal of course.

Randwick Time: 01:24.72
Prize: $122,500 1st: $58,000

Saturday 20 October 2018 5:35PM
Track profile: Royal Randwick
1 No.15. Mahalangur

"Hey Donald, here's my ticket, good odds so it's $1m. please"
" Yeah , yeah , whose writing is on it? Mine? Why mine? You heard the plane go over, right? What's that do to a horse with a leftie green and paisley pink jerk riding into the swamp? You think I came down in the last snowjob , newspaper conspiracy Canadian scum? Not talking to you".

Adolf, Trump to some, praises attack on reporter then lashes out at refugees on the march with threats to countries that do not stop them.
Threatens to put the military on the Mexican border.
Had Obama done any of that our blinkered right of reality crowd would have a fit
PS Dutton you good thing! thanks for wentworth.

"The 2019 budget is for an increase to $984 billion bringing his budget increases to $319 billion dollars, well in excess of Obama's."

Should read;

"The 2019 budget is for an increase to $984 billion bringing his deficit increases to $319 billion dollars, well in excess of Obama's."

Personally he has $3.1 billion which could cover his promise to the Indian. Even handing over $1 with a smile would show he's honourable.
( that should read 'honorable' but he isn't)

SR,

Wow this shows just how well the Trump economy is going, that you have to resort to this sort or bogus 'analysis' of bogus numbers to try to find something, ANYTHING, that might show the Obamessiah in a less unfavourable light as compared to Trump. Pretty pathetic really.

But let's just pretend your 'analysis' has ANY validity and examine the details.

1) First I'd note that none of your numbers (NONE), has been adjusted for inflation. Any and all comparisons against different periods have to be adjusted for inflation. Economic Statistics 101.

2) Next, you refer to the 2019 budget. But (and this might surprise you) the 2019 aren't inyet and this is an estimate made by the CBO whose estimates are notoriously iffy. Already we are seeing receipts rising above the expected level. So including 2019 in your 'analysis' (although calling it that is stretching the meaning of the word to ridiculous lengths) is entirely inappropriate.

3) The deficit for 2018 was not (as you laughingly think) $US833b but instead $US779b. Your figure was a earlier estimate. See how that works. Estimates are rarely correct (see 2 above). Now did you pick the higher number because it suited your purposes or are you just ignorant of the facts?

4) you've blatantly and invalidly cherry-picked you dates. You use 2009 as the start point for Obama to compare and by doing so have his first deficit as being 2010 less 2009. 2009 was a massive increase over 2008 but you've cherry-picked the start date to avoid attributing that increase to Obama. And that's utterly invalid. But if you include that increase (in whole or part) in the Obama column everything you say becomes utter bunkum - which of coarse it is.

Nevertheless apart from using unadjusted numbers, numbers that don't exist, numbers that are utterly wrong and blatantly leaving out contrary data, your 'analysis' is OK. Nah, I'm joshing with you - its rubbish.

BTW, I couldn't help but notice that you've run away from your idiotic Warren assertions. Good idea.

Foxy,

"I use the Times quite often as a source."

Well obviously less than 10 times per month. I almost always bump up against that limit. I've considered subscribing but the NYT is really a pretty hopeless source.

"I did not use it for the satirical list of Trump supporters."

Of coarse you didn't. There is no satirical list in either the NYT or the ATI so how could you.

Its been fun though. I suspect you've learned a lot.

mhaze,

You're so perceptive.

Your posts always manage to make me smile,
(and sometimes even laugh out loud).

This forum would not be as entertaining as it is,
without you in it.

Keep up the good work!

midterms, Trump is trying so very hard to say yes and no on every issue so he does not drive voters away next month.
He now admits the reporter died in that embassy, after both he and his mates who murdered him said nothing for a week about it.
Saudi Arabia is killing people every day and Trump is to sell them billions of dollars worth of arms? realy?

Dear mhaze,

God you really are a lightweight aren't you.

I said these were back of the envelope calculations and invited you to help knock them into shape but all you have done is stand on the edge of the sandpit and throw stones along with your dummy.

Not putting 2009 in Obama's column was not cherry picking you clown. To have shredded Bush's budget half the way into the financial year would have been highly irresponsible and damaging.

Perhaps you think we should include congress's 2009 $256 billion stimulus package that Obama signed off on in his figures. You could have made that argument but no to defend your president you want the whole lot attributed to Obama.

Then you would have to say how much of the FY2017 should go in Trump's. All this is bucking the convention that the budget in play when the president is inaugurated is not attributed to that president.

Trump's lifting defense spending to record peacetime levels and slashing taxes has driven increased budget deficits. He is profiting substantially from those decisions and while they pump prime the economy Obama's long effort toward budget repair from the GFC are going up in smoke. Only a Trump acolyte like yourself would applaud it.

So a question for you, what deficit figure would lead you to cut him loose? A trillion? One and a half trillion? Two trillion?

As to running away from the truth about Warren's linage which I have laid out with supporting evidence? Hardly. It is just I am discussing them with Shadow Minister not you. Sorry if that gets your nose out of joint.

SR,

Thanks for acknowledging that your comments on mitochondrial DNA was irrelevant.

I also acknowledge your tendency to believe unwaveringly those who share your opinion. However, it is not uncommon for academics to bend their opinions to suit their political views.

In particular the finding was wildly unspecific as to the % of native content giving a finding of between 1/64 and 1/1024 or more than an order of magnitude range, but was very specific that handful of genetic markers that are predominant in natives but not exclusive were "strong" evidence of distant native ancestry.

The assumption is that non of the other 1000 odd ancestors could possible have carried similar markers is a bold assumption considering that between generations there are hundreds of transcription errors or mutations in the DNA.

As with most things DNA is subject to chaos theory and accurately determining lineage from 10 generations ago is like trying to read a document that has been sequentially photocopied 10 times.

Even then EW's claim that she was Cherokee is a complete joke as the individual tribes were genetically very similar.

Either way EW's claim of native heritage is on shaky ground, and the test has done her far more damage than Trump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL-mbWOYPyE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vasg-sUIQ_I

I rest my case

The deficit actually goes against Trump more so.
Removing the 1st year in office in both cases we have :
Obama: deficit 1.3bn to .67bn in 8 years.
Trump : deficit .67bn to .78bn in 1 year.

Obama saved around .08 a year while Trump lost around .1 a year.

"The assumption is that non of the other 1000 odd ancestors could possible have carried similar markers is a bold assumption considering that between generations there are hundreds of transcription errors or mutations in the DNA."

That is the nature of DNA testing which Trump chose for committing himself to pay $1m.

Foxy wrote....

"You're so perceptive."

and I think you're an excellent judge. (grin)

SR,

Yes I know you called it back of the envelope calculations (BOTE). Since you make so many numeric errors, I took that as being your get-out-gaol-free card. Every error becomes a BETO. But your numbers were so precise (wrong but precise) that the claim was obviously fallacious. The very premise of your assertions (and that's all they are) is faulty, asking me to help you make them make sense is like asking for help to polish a turd.

If you really want to go down this path you'd be better off looking at deficit to GDP rates or increases in debt as a percentage of GDP. But that wouldn't achieve the results you want so....

"So a question for you, what deficit figure would lead you to cut him loose?"

Its the wrong question. I'm looking to Trump to return the USA back to its place as the premiere economy and exemplary on the planet. Or even better, as the saviour of Western civilisation. If he spends up big but doesn't advance toward those goals, then he'd be a failure. The first 18months are encouraging and if he. like Reagan, has to spend to reinvigorate the US military, that's money well spent.

Incidentally, isn't it fascinating that, while Obama was doubling the national debt, on things like Solyndra, the left never worried about debt. But now it seems to be, all of a sudden, vital. Hypocrisy?

"Perhaps you think we should include congress's 2009 $256 billion stimulus package that Obama signed off on in his figures. "
Well yes and I had that point in my post but ran out of 350 words.
I think you fundamentally misunderstand the US budget system if you think Obama was locked into the Bush 'budget'.

I note that I made 4 criticism of your BS claims but that you've sought to refute only one.

Equally as to Warren I disputed your claim that "...Warren has always said it was her great, great, great, grandmother who family lore had said was partially native american" and you've shrunk from defending that load of rubbish.

Dear Shadow Minister,

You serve up Shapiro and Carson and say “I rest my case'?

Sorry mate but absolutely not. Here I was expecting clips on DNA and lineages and instead I am presented with probably the two most hittable faces in the US entertainment industry.

Shapiro especially with his mincing supercilious demeanour spitting out 'The average American has .18 percent native American DNA' which reveals such a paucity of statistical understanding that it beggars belief.

You wrote;

“Thanks for acknowledging that your comments on mitochondrial DNA was (sic) irrelevant.”

I did no such thing and it is disingenuous of you to impugn I did. Please stop.

I instead explained exactly why I raised the issue and it most certainly spoke to how DNA is not the only determinate of a person's ethnicity. For years Warren has said she doesn't consider herself a 'racial minority'

Look Bill Clinton claimed Cherokee ancestry and President Bush posted on the Whitehouse website that he was a descendant of Little Dove Hyanno of the Wampanoag. All bunkum of course, especially without DNA testing.

But Warren did the test and it concurred with her assertion that her ancestor Sarah O. C. (Smith) Crawford was indeed part Indian.

Enough said.

SR,

And there I was mistaking pure ignorance for obfuscation.

Genetics for idiots:

Mitochondrial DNA in a child is an almost 100% copy of the mother's Mitochondrial DNA as the sperm adds only to the nucleus of the egg. This makes the mitochondrial DNA useful in tracing the female lineage through the generations with dating done by counting the transcription errors.

This means that this DNA would be passed by only one mother in each generation and would be useless in determining a broad range of heritage.

(benefits of having a biological research scientist as a mother.)

As for the problems of determining native identity:

http://www.councilforresponsiblegenetics.org/ViewPage.aspx?pageId=163

As for Ben Shapiro, who is Harvard educated, he also pointed out some of EW's more outrageous claims i.e that her grandmother was discriminated against for her mixed blood, and also pointed out that the scientist that did the test did not have sufficient native DNA and had to draw on DNA from Mexico, Venezuela etc. which shoots a big hole in her native US claims.

But clearly you didn't listen to the videos.

As I said, EW's claims are highly disputable, and she has seriously shot herself in the foot.

Dear mhaze,

You seem a bit put out by this. Normally you would have presented figures to refute my claim yet all you do is snipe away at mine. One suspects they are pretty close to the mark.

So to your 'criticisms' which you say I have not attended to.

1. Adjusting for inflation – sure, my first inclination was to say if you want you can go ahead and do them yourself, they will not refute the claim. But knowing how much you struggle with this kind of stuff here they are;

Figures are in billions of 2009 equivalent dollars.
2009 -1412.7
2010 -1274.4
2011 -1250.2
2012 -1025.1
2013 -632.7
2014 -444.4
2015 -399.7
2016 -528.4
2017 -590.0
2018 Est. -723.0
2019 Est. -839.3

From these figures Obama deficit increases equal 190.3 billion while Trump's budgets show estimated deficit increases of 249.3.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/historical-tables/

2. That the 2019 budget figures 'are not in yet' – well no, that is why they are the 'budget' figures, but they are Trump's budget figures in which he is planning for an increase in the deficit due to his tax cuts and increases in spending. Trying to distance him from them is inane.

3. “The deficit for 2018 was not (as you laughingly think) $US833b but instead $US779b.” - indeed which is why I said these were BOTE as they were taken from a single site without further review. However given that the following FY is budgeted to further increase the deficit then this adjustment changes nothing.

4. Cherry picking. If you go to this site and look under the FY 2009 you will see all the documents bear the name of George W Bush.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collection.action?collectionCode=BUDGET&browsePath=Fiscal+Year+2009&isCollapsed=false&leafLevelBrowse=false&isDocumentResults=true&ycord=1391

Given that the 250 billion stimulus that Obama was immediately forced to okay was a direct result of yet another Republican president stuffing up the economy through lax financial controls should mean this stays firmly in the GWB column anyway.

You called my claim 'not even close' but we are now debating the minutia. Rather telling.

SR
You left out Obama deficit decreases , again. Check his opening balance against closing balance. please

" DNA would be passed by only one mother in each generation and would be useless in determining a broad range of heritage."
Donald J Trump PhD, Nobel Prize for Fake DNA, disagrees . He knows a $1m. Indian lab-test ancestry school-weapon when he sees a great one, he put his name on it. Greatest presidential brain in science since rocket man invented star spangled banner.

mhaze,

Thank You for the return compliment.
But it's undeserved - much as I like it.

The reality for me is - I tend to go with
my heart more often, rather than my brain.

Dear Shadow Minister'

You wrote;

“Genetics for idiots: Mitochondrial DNA in a child is an almost 100% copy of the mother's Mitochondrial DNA as the sperm adds only to the nucleus of the egg. This makes the mitochondrial DNA useful in tracing the female lineage through the generations with dating done by counting the transcription errors.”

Why are we going over mtDNA again?

Having gone and found that out the above for yourself I respectfully request you now go and again review my post with a disposition to employ your best efforts at comprehension.

““40% of all Ashkenazi Jews are descended from just four Jewish women who left the Middle East over 1,000 years ago and settled in Europe” the rest, 60%, do not have the genetics to afford them this validation and there are many more other factors taken into consideration such as recorded lineages, the testimony of witnesses, time within the culture etc.”

I repeat the point is that even with something as definitive as mtDNA the majority of Ashkenazi Jews don't have this genetic validation yet are still regarded as Jewish.

The frustrating this is that in many ways this is assisting your side of the argument not mine.

Anyway to move on and I will type slowly.

Native American in genetic terms includes those from Mexico and further south. There is a hell of a lot of that DNA floating around the USA now.

However to quote; “The test sample's Native American ancestry falls between First Nations (Canada) and Indigenous Mexican peoples, as would be expected for Native American ancestry deriving from the lower 48 states of the United States.”

There is certainly an argument from a cultural perspective about the appropriateness of Warren ticking any box claiming minority status but she is certainly within her rights to answer affirmative to the question does she have Indian heritage.

But this is about Trump's call for a DNA test and his refusal to accept its validity. He is wrong and should pay up but knowing the man's character...

US is training with Ukraine air-force and withdraws from nuke treaty. North-east Ukraine is 500kms from Moscow and losing Ukraine in a nuke strike would not worry the red-head and rednecks. But warheads pointed at Putin would make him say a few prayers. Go trumpy, get 'im boy.

Murder in a Saudi Arabian Embassy and Trump wants to keep the deal,, selling them arms
We once had a leader known as pig iron Bob
He sold Japan the stuff they made in to weapons and used against us

SR,

Clearly you have no clue about genetics.

If an Ashkenazi woman married to an Ashkenazi man has 4 sons and no daughters none of his or her grandchildren will have any of their mtDNA even with 100% Ashkenazi heritage.

That 40% of all Ashkenazi Jews carry the mtDNA of 4 ancestors from 1000yrs ago, does not imply that the other 60% were not descendents of Ashkenazi Jews from 1000yrs ago, just that those 4 women and their female descendents all had at least daughter and probably more. Which is why mtDNA can prove that you had one particular female decendent 1000 yrs ago but says absolutely nothing about the 1000 000s of others which makes it spectacularly useless in proving lineage.

Secondly, thanks for admitting that EW might very well have 1000th native Mexican or Columbian.

“People think there is a DNA test to prove you are Native American. There isn’t” -New Scientist:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22129554-400-there-is-no-dna-test-to-prove-youre-native-american/

"Warren’s sample had a lot of markers that are common to European ancestry, and a few that are common to what the researchers think could be Native American ancestry. The reason Bustamante thinks Warren probably has a Native American ancestor is that some DNA segments in her sample matched with segments from people native to Mexico, Peru, and Colombia."

Dear Shadow Minister,

That gave me a chuckle.

You somehow think that repeating my point back to me makes it your point?

Now to the Business Insider piece you are quoting. Here is the link for those who like to follow these things up;

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/elizabeth-warren-dna-test-science-2018-10?r=US&IR=T

It really is a default setting for right-wingers on this forum not to provide links but that is another story.

This is what the writer claimed;

“The reason Bustamante thinks Warren probably has a Native American ancestor is that some DNA segments in her sample matched with segments from people native to Mexico”

Either they didn't read the paper or they have chosen to misrepresent the material. That is not what it said at all. I again reference the report;

This was derived from Fig 2 on page 5 which states “In this ancestry specific analysis..., the Native American haplotype of the test sample is displayed against a panel of Native American references from across North America. The test sample's Native American ancestry falls between First Nations (Canada) and Indigenous Mexican peoples, as would be expected for Native American ancestry deriving from the lower 48 states of the United States.”

So the report does not state Warren's sample “ matched with segments from people native to Mexico” at all. How about you go and read it for yourself. If you have already why are you passing on the opinion of someone who probably hadn't?

SR
"You called my claim 'not even close' but we are now debating the minutia. Rather telling."

I said they weren't close when I thought you were talking about increases in debt. I admit that it didn't occur to me that someone would be so clueless as to compare beginning and ending deficit numbers as though they had any real meaning. I forgot who I was dealing with.

I'm not debating the minutia of your inane claims just pointing out that even in their inanity they were wrong. The notion that the before and after deficits have meaning is just bonkers but does indicate that the Trump economy is going so well that you're forced to resort to this inanity in an attempt to find anything wrong.

What's next? Compare Obama's greying hair to show that he worked harder than Trump? Equally valid as this load of baloney.

_________________________________________________________________

Belly,

1. Menzies didn't sell the pig iron. As AG he merely enforced the law to allow the stuff to be loaded onto ships.

2. The iron wasn't suitable for munitions. It was used in construction.

3. The event took place fully 3 years before the start of the war. Many historians argue that one proximate cause of the war was the trade embargoes against Japan. Trying to stop the sales to Japan made war more likely. But the Waterside workers at the time were taking their orders from Moscow who actually wanted to precipitate a war.

Its marvellous how these left-wing myths become fact in the mind of the historically clueless partisans. Facts? We don't need no stinking facts.

Dear mhaze,

Wow, that's impressive even from you. From the petulant to the pathetic in a single post.

You write; “I admit that it didn't occur to me that someone would be so clueless as to compare beginning and ending deficit numbers as though they had any real meaning.”

What rot. Not once through this whole conversation have you raised that point. To do so now smacks of you being desperate to weasel out of this just like your president's non-existant million dollars.

My initial post to you was as a result of you claiming of Sachs; “His complaints about the deficit would carry a modicum more credence if he'd been making the same arguments about the Obamessiah's doubling of the debt.”

I said of Trump; “In two years he has added more to the deficit, through upping military spending and forcing through self profiting tax cuts, than Obama did in his eight years in office fighting the GFC crisis.”

You called this “Utter rubbish. We've seen previously that you struggle with numbers. But the claim isn't even close.”

I even checked to make sure you understood what we were talking about; “I'm assuming you know that deficit figures are not debt and that each year either adds to the previous year's deficit figure or subtracts from it.”

You now all of a sudden decide that the numbers have no meaning.

Really childish response from you. Grow up mate.

SR,

As soon as I realised you were making this entirely inane claim that the being/end deficit numbers have any real meaning I started calling the analysis bogus ("bogus 'analysis' of bogus numbers").

I agree I misunderstood your original claim because I vastly over-estimated your understanding of these matters, but once I was set straight on your wrong-headed thinking, I called it out both generally and specifically.

But nice attempt at changing the subject. Does that often work for you? Usually you just drop the subject once you realise you've gone down the garden path eg "So Warren has always said it was her great, great, great, grandmother who family lore had said was partially native american." But changing the subject might work

Dear mhaze,

Oh bulldust. What a self-serving insipid response.

You tried saying the numbers were bogus because they needed to be adjusted for inflation. When I did that, and it showed little difference, you picked up your bat and ball and left the sandpit in a huff.

You are like a child. You got shown up now you are mightily sulking.

Not a good look mate.

Our fathers shook their heads and asked how could Germany do such things
How could Germany believe in such a man
What was wrong with them
If still alive many would see just such a man built his fame on hate and lies, even refuses to show he has paid his tax.
Rules America today and every question above must be asked again today

SR,

If the point that you are repeating is that mt-DNA is useless in determining heredity, then yes I am repeating you.
For example a person who had one relative that was Ashkinazi 50 generations (1000yrs) ago and none others (i.e 0.000 000 000 000 01% Ashkinazi) could have 100% the same mt-DNA as one of the 40% who are pure Ashkinazi.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/Two-Native-American-geneticists-interpret-13326253.php

"Because Bustamante used Indigenous individuals from Central and South America as a reference group to compare Warren’s DNA, we believe he should have stated only that Warren potentially had an “Indigenous” ancestor 6-10 generations ago, not conclusively a “Native American” one. The distinction might seem hypercritical to most, but to the sovereign tribal nations of the United States it’s an important one."

So perhaps EW is 1/1000th Peruvian? So her claim to have recent Cherokee heritage is blown out of the water.

What % Chimpanzee heritage does she have?

The Saudi Arabian Swamp did the worst cover-up in history , US does it great , Indian $1m. is fake and never happened , no-one said it, she's a journalist's sock-puppet, worst ever, Trump is smarter than crooked Hilary DNA phone-calls which she tried to cover-up. Bad story. Needs action.
President of great people.

nick I have no doubt you fully understand but will say it in any case by the way still laughing at your contribution in my newest thread
Trump like a drunk trying to cross a river on stepping stones was very careful not to upset his team [Saudi Arabia]
He, not understanding others can read between the lines,said they did a bad job of covering it up, nothing about the murder.
midterms please midterms

and I love you too

SR,

"You tried saying the numbers were bogus because they needed to be adjusted for inflation."

Well that was just one of a number of issues I raised with the bogus analysis. But the main issue is that the whole idea of comparing the openning and closing deficit numbers and thinking they mean anything at all is just bonkers and revealing of someone who (1) hasn't got the faintest idea about how these deficits work and (2) is desperately trying ot find something, ANYTHING, that will make Obama appear to have been even remotely competent vis a vis Trump.

Didn't work, pal.

The numbers you used were bogus. Using those numbers to analysis anything (other than your lack of understanding) was bogus - as I explained to you from the outset.

Any word from EW's great great grandma yet? Oh sorry I forgot that you'd prefer that whole incident to be dropped. OK that's it, I'll leave you in your ignorance.

Belly,

No comment on the pig-iron Bob issue? Just a mention that you might have been led down the garden path would have been nice - even civil.

Somehow I thought better of you on that point at least.

Donald promised $1m then said it's like an election promise and he needs the money for the Wall which he promised Mexico will pay for as he promised to nuke North Korea and is saving up to rebuild Los Angeles. Promise.

mhaze
1. Menzies didn't sell the pig iron. As AG he merely enforced the law to allow the stuff to be loaded onto ships.

"1938 the Joseph Lyons Government announced the embargo of iron ore. There were no moves to stop the export of pig iron and scrap metal to Japan. January 1939, Government assurance that no more pig-iron would be shipped to Japan." Menzies had a bit more clout than a policeman - he was AG.

2. The iron wasn't suitable for munitions. It was used in construction.

Pig iron was used for piggeries and scrap was used for knuckle-dusters only. Do you know what happens in an iron works?

3. Trying to stop the sales to Japan made war more likely. But the Waterside workers at the time were taking their orders from Moscow who actually wanted to precipitate a war.

Moscow. And Washington . And London. And Canberra which blocked iron ore . The Unions were traitors to the Fuhrer of the Iron Cross , the Labour Front of the Ruhr and Aryan Master Smelters.

mhaze you are trying to re-write history, aware many here had not even been born then.
In thread after thread, post after post, I have expressed a soft spot for Menzies, he without doubt was a statesman.
His wish to call our dollar *the Royal* curdled my breakfast milk.
His poem *I only have to see her passing by* good lawd!
He was known as pig iron Bob, he did sell to pre war Japan material that earned him that name.
He was never beaten, my party, *lost in a world of its own at that time* beat its self
He had to retire because he could not be beaten
TRUTH if he lived today? and had the same policies? I could very well be a LIBERAL, his policies are closest to Labors than the party he gave birth to

Belly,

"He was known as pig iron Bob, he did sell to pre war Japan material that earned him that name."

That's OK Belly. I won't bother you with this any longer. Many people, particularly of feeble mind, prefer to live with their comforting myths rather uncomfortable facts. Doing so means they don't really understand the world around them, but then they have comforting myths to explain that also.

NNN,

"1938 the Joseph Lyons Government announced the embargo of iron ore."

Yes an embargo on iron ore...not on pig iron. I guess the difference is something you don't comprehend.

"Pig iron was used for piggeries..."

I have no idea what you're talking about...I suspect that makes two of us.

An embargo doesn't come from Cuban jazz street dance , it came from Hon Pig the Bob Mingies , cabinet member who was in a headlock by the union peoples' commissar banging on his snout until he caved in and banned pig-iron. Pig iron is made of iron with 10% pig which is cooked with coke, coal and cookies and served with Manganese and Sushi to make naval gun barrels . Big ones .

feeble mind, yep ok leave it there, but do you own a mirror?
Trump, as he mimics what increasingly looks like his idol/mentor Adolf Hitler by holding meetings in areas known to support him, and using populist rants, looks quite insane
Looking back over his 2nd amendment rants against Hillary [second amendment refers to the right to have guns] it would be interesting if the pipe bombs went to him.
In fact it has been predicted by a psychic, that the pycho, will be murdered this next month.
IF and we hope it is only in the midterm elections, that took place, the right wing ranters would have very different opinions about people being threatened with death because they are from the wrong side of politics

Really , really want Trump Tower to have demolition charges at the rear leaving just the big golden sign standing great.

OK Belly I get it. You want the left's myth to be true and aren't interested in discovering if it is true. That's fine. You're not alone. Paul on these very pages has made a similar stance. But if you ever do decide that ignorance isn't bliss, on this issue you could do worse than read the Wikipedia entry which touches on the facts and Blainey's chapter in 'The Steel Master' on the issue where he makes the point that not only did the Japanese not turn the pig-iron into munitions but the proceeds from the sale were used by BHP to restructure their own facilities to make arms for Australia ie Japan funded (partially) Australia's rearmament.

___________________________________________________________________

I was going to try to set NNN straight but then remembered George Carlin's warning..." Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

mhaze
" The iron wasn't suitable for munitions. It was used in construction. "
So the pig iron is made from bad iron like feral pigs which have TB and can't be eaten. Luckily for Japan , Australia's good coal can turn pig iron into good iron . This iron most resembles.. ....iron.

Pig iron is grey iron which cannot be worked (forged, extruded, rolled etc.) even at temperature and lacks tensile strength. No good for construction. But Japan lacked iron and any pig-iron products made Japan's iron-ore supplies available for munitions. Even if Bob the Pig didn't know what Japan would do with it , any supplies he approved in Cabinet would aid Japan's military. Pig iron is used in engine blocks and engine housings - is that the "construction" you meant?

mhaze lovin it! your opinion that ranting means something.
You will never meet any one more anti true left than me.
But yea you should have warning lights and signs saying warning extreme right winger with zero ability to see the truth.

Oh more delight from the comb-over.

It seems the brutal killing of Khashoggi was not so much a murderous act of barbarity and slaughter of a journalist but rather a balls up.

“They had a very bad original concept, it was carried out poorly and the cover-up was the worst in the history of cover-ups,”

So their crime was stuffing up the cover-up. Incompetence their sin rather than the act itself.

You can't help but think of him saying to someone “If they were working for me they would be fired!”

Dear Leader Donald feeds his cats and in the dawn chants his love for Canada , Mexico and Kim . In his purity he spreads good cover-ups and discreet hacking with prayers for the material benefits of Hilary , the Queen and law-abiding Democrats with guns. Bless you all you're great.

So the Trump supporting lunatic was taken in to custody this morning.
See his van, a moving billboard of hate failure to understand truth it warned a lunatic is inside.
Trump needs no such van, we know we know.
The Once United States of America may never be united again.
Hate division lies fear of phantoms has driven Trump into the white house and some of his supporters insane.
On the day he falls, the day he is seen for the thief, fraud, tax avoider he is, who will say I was wrong?

I really really liked this take on Khashoggi ...

http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/310962/

mhaze followed your link and it questions you,do you support state murder?
Is Saudi Arabia any better because it is a Trump fan/friend?

Dear mhaze,

Of course you like it because it is bulldust as usual.

This is far closer to the truth.

"His criticism of the kingdom for exporting its fundamentalist “Wahhabist” version of Islam to other Muslim countries struck at the very heart of the ruling family’s legitimacy.

“I don’t think any US president has ever been so outspoken about Saudi Arabia,” said Toby Matthiesen, a Middle East specialist at St Antony’s College, University of Oxford.

“This is really unprecedented,” he added, calling Obama’s views “embarrassing” for the kingdom."
http://www.timesofisrael.com/obama-faces-unprecedented-saudi-criticism-before-summit/

The no longer United States of America ruled by a lunatic and supported by some, has not given up on Saudi Arabia, post presidential investment opportunities may be selling America out
Trump is about money not honesty

Trump mates in Saudi Arabia took a break from murdering unarmed kids in some one else,s country.
To make this claim, those protesting the murder of that reporter are hysterical!
Meanwhile in Trumps killing grounds, the streets of America, a gun man murdered 4 and wounded many, in a place of worship.

Belly
Hatred began in US when they started shooting His Majesty's soldiers. Only when they beg forgiveness , raise the Queen's royal standard and drink her health will there be peace on the Korean peninsula . Same for Putin , Crimea is British.

NNN Much will depend on who Putin selects to run America, a recent purchase of Russia pty ltd

The family of Tsar Nicholas was canonized on 1 November 1981 as new martyrs by the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad which includes Queen Victoria the Empress of Crimea , New York and Meghan Markle who has more real estate than Unca Donald.

It's interesting that HRH Meghan said NZ had the first women voters.
"Over 200 NWP supporters, the Silent Sentinels, were arrested in 1917 while picketing the White House, some of whom went on hunger strike and endured forced feeding after being sent to prison.. U.S. Constitution on August 26, 1920. It states, "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex."
Trump's handling of women , so to speak, reflects that undemocratic element in US ( which stopped Afro voting and opposed Indians' religions).

midterms, MIDTERMS please?

Belly,

Obama's mates were also killing children in Yemen!

In spite of Obama's lip service he sold $115bn of arms to Saudi as well more than any of his predecessors. Obama also turned a blind eye to the Syrians gassing their own civilians with nerve gas.

So please spare us your hypocrisy.

SM lets deal, if after Trumps fall I prove to be wrong I will post it here will you if as I think you have been trapped in his spider web and are proved wrong will you tell us so

Dear Shadow minister,

I will repeat my earlier post;

"His criticism of the kingdom for exporting its fundamentalist “Wahhabist” version of Islam to other Muslim countries struck at the very heart of the ruling family’s legitimacy.

“I don’t think any US president has ever been so outspoken about Saudi Arabia,” said Toby Matthiesen, a Middle East specialist at St Antony’s College, University of Oxford.

“This is really unprecedented,” he added, calling Obama’s views “embarrassing” for the kingdom."
http://www.timesofisrael.com/obama-faces-unprecedented-saudi-criticism-before-summit/

These were hardly Obama's mates. Please show me where Trump has even come close to this kind of criticism of the Saudis.

I did love this from Trump today.

When he was asked if he should tone down his rhetoric in the face of the recent pipe bombs and shootings he said;

“Tone down, no. Could tone up.”

It is just a reflex with him. Zero nuance, just double down on anything that even looks like criticism. It is almost Pavlovian.

Amazing.

The media are to blame for saying Trump's language against media incites violence against media for saying Trump incites violence. If they write that , they're to blame.

Trump, this morning it is said the Republicans have made a last minute plea for votes in the midterms.
And left Trump out of it
Wise sausages those folk.

SR,

You keep reinforcing my point that Obama is essentially all words and no action. While he was waffling he made the largest arms sale in recent history to the Saudis which were then deployed in Yemen. Also who can forget his "red line" about the Syrians using chemical weapons against their own people. The Syrians used them several time and Obama did bugger all, and thousands more died horribly.

"American Enterprise Institute (AEI) reports that U.S. carbon emissions declined by more than 42 million tons in 2017, far ahead of the next most environmentally-friendly country, Ukraine, where emissions declined by 20 million tons. Mexico, the United Kingdom, and Japan also saw major declines in how much carbon dioxide each nation emits into the atmosphere.

Strangely enough, Canada, the European Union, and China — all signatories to the Accords negotiated by the United Nations — saw significant increases in carbon dioxide emissions. China released 120 million more tons of carbon dioxide into the air in 2017 than in 2016. The EU made up for America's decline, releasing 40 million more tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere."

USA stock market has written off all this years gains
Money managers concerned Trumps trade war may see it get worse

President Trump referred to the citizenship clause in the Constitution as a “crazy policy,” telling a rapt crowd that “illegal immigrants are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.”

loving it

After the midterms the interesting bit will be what will Donald the duck do next?
Build a wall or gas chambers?

He's said the US has no legal power when it does, will make Mexico pay but doesn't , will send the army which can't act against civilians and will burn Nth Korea but won't . A promise of gas ovens should mean they're safe .

Belly,

While not a fan of Trump, I find myself defending him against some of the BS fantastical claims made by the left whingers.

For example

"USA stock market has written off all this years gains" - Wrong the market is still roughly 10% higher than 1yr ago and 30% higher than when Trump won the elections.

"The idiot that shot up a synagogue was a Trump follower" - Wrong he was critic of Trump and claims never to have voted for him. Secondly, Trump's daughter is Jewish having married a Jew, and Trump is a strong supporter of Israel.

Shadow Minister
Facebook ranters post claims oil is 37 dollars a barrel then ask why are we paying more for fuel.
Fact is oil is just over mid seventy's.
Trump has his followers,you can tell one usually because they are the ones who wait still for their first original thought.
The world is holding its breath the midterms can not, without a miracle deliver the senate to Democrats, but with luck it will take the other house
Whatever the out come Trump and his supporters will be even worse for that country and the world, he thrives on lies and fake enemy's

Dear Shadow Minister,

No you don't young chap. This man was critical of Trump for not going far enough. By definition therefore he was certainly supportive of the direction Trump has taken toward refugees.

The reason why he went after Jews in this synagogue is because he was looking to attack the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society. This society used to only look after Jewish immigrants but eventually opened its doors to assist refugees and migrants of all backgrounds including Muslim. They have been strong advocates for higher refugee intakes.

Trump's anti-refugee and anti-migrant rants have been a feature of his presidency. To contend otherwise is stupid.

It is quite amusing how much effort and dishonesty you on the right are putting into waving the flag for this bloke.

According to the Wall Street Journal - US stocks
had a very bruising month in October. Last month's
sell off drained $4.5 trillion from shares of companies
in the US, Europe, and Asia. As November begins
investors are watching to see whether major indexes can
gain some momentum.

Dear Foxy,

It is interesting isn't it. Trump had been keeping pace with Obama's percentage increases in the Dow but has fallen away. At the same period Obama was at 38% while Trump is 28% or there abouts.

http://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president

I know that Trump will lap up the gains when they are there and ignore the losses but our resident Trumpites will just can't help but keep walking into pies in their faces. There is every inkling that this will be another. Thank goodness OLO doesn't allow people to delete their posts.

As I said in the OP this is getting better every day. Lot's of fun to be had.

Tramp *publicly* said today he wants the American Military to regard rocks thrown the same as guns.
Try finding a way to make that look ok SM

SR,

Once again you show yourself to be the master of BS. Bowers the shooter after years (way before Trump) of hateful tirades against Jews attacks a synagogue (not the activist group) full of people with no involvement with this one Jewish group and what you take out of it is that his motivation is Trump's anti migrant stance. You are a sick puppy. And I am glad that this abandonment of reason will be available to haunt you forever.

Foxy,

You provided a link to an article that concluded that because Trump picked up a glass with two hands that he should be removed from office on the basis of mental incompetence. - Seriously?

Belly,

Because the stock market had a correction, it does not mean that the sky is falling because of Trump.

Left whingers in general,

It is this constant stream of unmitigated bollocks coming from the left that completely drowns out any genuine criticism of Trump. As with the last election, this is the left's one to lose, and they are working hard to do just that.

TORAH
Jewish Voice. EDITORIAL Bowers, HIAS & the Murder of 11 Jews
Oct 31, 2018

"The previous weekend, HIAS organized “National Refugee Shabbat,” with events hosted at hundreds of synagogues around the country. One such community was Dor Hadash in Pittsburgh, which holds its services inside the Tree of Life synagogue. "

Shadow Minister you and I have arm wrestled here over many years we never resolve issues
But we are both quite content with the understanding the other is uniformed or fixed in a place the sunlight of truth never shines.
OK But how do you handle the millions all over the world that share my views and fears about Ginger Adolf?
As he becomes even more hysterical during his speeches to the poor fools who support him he looks more like that man.
Watch the midterms, question me, but KNOW he will get even worse after them.
He will not face a lost senate
He may no longer own the lower house
He will, based on victory run a muck.
Based on loss, will scream in indignation the swamp people are plotting to over throw him.
Trump may yet save America, if only buy forcing it to wake up and remove him.

The original manuscript is held by the American Jewish Historical Society.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Dear Shadow Minister,

Once again you are showing yourself to be a snivelling, duplicitous and an entirely unethical debater. And yet again you are attempting to take my words and twist them into something I did not say.

This from me;

“This man was critical of Trump for not going far enough. By definition therefore he was certainly supportive of the direction Trump has taken toward refugees.”

Does not equal this from you;

“Bowers the shooter after years (way before Trump) of hateful tirades against Jews attacks a synagogue (not the activist group) full of people with no involvement with this one Jewish group and what you take out of it is that his motivation is Trump's anti migrant stance.”

How did we get from “supportive of” to “motivated by”? You constantly attempt this crap and it does you nor your argument any credit whatsoever.

Give it a rest.

Oh Trump has outdone himself this week. Apparently during the midterm rallies he has been claiming to have thought up the Veterans Choice Act and to have signed it into law. The problem is that it pass passed by Obama in 2014.

“Ahead of the 2018 midterm elections, President Donald Trump has boasted about a veterans healthcare law several times at his political rallies, at one time even calling it “the greatest idea I think I’ve ever had.” The problem with Trump’s claim is that President Barack Obama passed the law in 2014.”
http://fortune.com/2018/10/26/donald-trump-rallies-obama-va-veterans-healthcare-2014/

Instead all what Trump did was extend its funding for another round.

What a great laugh. You have to admire his brazen and shameless lying. He knows exactly what he is doing though. The mainstream media can call him out on this until the cows come home but those at his rallies are just lapping it up.
Very entertaining.

Not everyone is entertained by what the US President
is doing. Charles Robert Lindholm wrote the following:

"How free are the free
How brave are the brave
In America today?

Have we learned our lessons
From the past
Or are we doomed
To repeat our errors again?

Have we learned nothing
From the mass killing
of Native Americans?

Have we learned nothing
From the evils and racism
Of slavery that stained
The soul of our nation?

Have we learned nothing
From the fears and shame
Of putting Japanese American
Citizens in prison camps?

Have we forgotten our nation
Was founded by immigrants
Fleeing persecution
For their religious beliefs?

Won't our faith and belief
In the values we claim to hold
Allow us to grant
"Liberty and Justice For All?"

When we quote
The articles
The verses
The documents
And "The Book"
We say we love
Are they just empty
Meaningless words
From hypocrites and pretenders?

From our families and churches
And our communities and towns
To the great states across our land
We are "not strong"
We are "not free"
We are surely "not brave"
If we cannot stand and protect
The weakest
The vulnerable
And the oppressed
Among us

Don't sing songs
And quote
"America, Love it or Leave it"
To me
If you live in fear and hatred
Of my fellow citizens
Because of their race, religion, gender,
Sexual orientation or ethnicity

You don't deserve
To wave the American flag
Or say the "Pledge of Allegiance"
If you don't believe in
"Liberty and Justice for All"

cont'd ...

cont'd ...

America is "not strong"
Just because we are mighty
America is not brave or just
If we give in to fear

My fellow Americans
Be not afraid
Keep steel in your spine
Keep an open mind
And courage in your heart
With a love for one another

Keep this country
"The Land of the Free
And the Home of the Brave"
We are all Americans."

Short doco this day, the year Dewy did not [as the headlines said] win over Truman.
I long for those days, those leaders, and too the country that put those words nicknamenick put before us.
We now see a very different very lost country ruled by a con man and supported by those who know very little

Dear Belly,

Surely "dumbocracy" can't win?

Ah wait, it already has.

SR,

Now you are even misquoting yourself, so that makes you a sniveling duplicitous and unethical liar.

I claimed that the shooter was not motivated by Trump and said:

"The idiot that shot up a synagogue was a Trump follower" - Wrong he was critic of Trump and claims never to have voted for him. Secondly, Trump's daughter is Jewish having married a Jew, and Trump is a strong supporter of Israel."

You replied:

"This man was critical of Trump for not going far enough. By definition therefore he was certainly supportive of the direction Trump has taken toward refugees."

The reason why he went after Jews in this synagogue is because he was looking to attack the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society..."

Which was a pathetic attempt to link the motivation of the shooter to Trump.

My point again is that this delirious factually deficient attacks on Trump are counter productive. The left whingers have been crying wolf hysterically for 2 years, and most of the world has simply stopped listening.

Dear Shadow Minister,

You really are a nasty apologist for the filthy alt-right dog whistling that has been a such a huge part of the Trump campaign and presidency.

Attacks on the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society were frequent and savage from the alt-right lead in no small measure from the organisation headed by Trump's then future campaign manager Bannon.

http://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2015/12/03/exclusive-state-department-un-funded-group-behind-1000-rabbis-urging-u-s-refugee-intake/

And here is Breitbart tying Soros to the group.

http://www.breitbart.com/politics/2017/03/28/soros-funded-group-schemes-to-stop-trumps-latest-temporary-visa-ban/

If your adulation of Trump means you can not bring yourself to acknowledge the climate he and his campaign created around the refugee issue then you really are not worth the air you breathe.

You claim;

“The left whingers have been crying wolf hysterically for 2 years, and most of the world has simply stopped listening.”

Well at least 12 of them have stopped listening because they now lay slain. The wolf is alive and well and claiming lives and you are a rank apologist for the man who so completely espouses so many of the alt-right's values.

You like so many of the right have hollowed yourselves out by defending Trump. You are now just bluster, attempting to shout down the rest of the world who see him for what he is. You might not be as bad as the religious right who can no longer claim any moral highground on any political candidate, or people like Hasbeen who support a coward who managed to get 5 deferments from serving his country, two of which were for supposed bone spurs which he no longer remembers which foot they occurred in.

Insubstantial – having little or no substance.

SR,

You are really a sleazy apologist for the far left whinge especially given that the synagogue and the 12 slain Jews that you claim as yours, most probably had absolutely nothing with the activist group or the motivation for the killer.

Perhaps your rank Antisemitism classifies these 12 slain Jews as "good" because they were killed by a bad right wing extremist as opposed to the bad Jewish women and children killed by the virtuous Hamas freedom fighters?

Shadow Minister you highlight why the true right is a threat to us all.
Highlight too how much blind hate is needed by them to continue to exist.
Too that including every one you disagree with in a pot you name left, is slightly unbalanced and a refugee from truth.
Nothing changed keep it up, it is entertaining

Belly,

You and SR are typical examples of why the left whinge is such a danger. The bile and invective from SR and your comparison to Hitler of anything you don't like is delusional.

I don't like Trump, but the hysterical delusions you mob dream up can only damage your cause. e.g. your claim that the stock market dip wiped out the years gains took 30 seconds on google to prove as bollocks.

Similarly there is no link between Trump and the synagogue shootings except though a tortuous and extremely acrobatic logic.

If you post BS on OLO then be prepared to be challenged.

SM,

You seem to have the outmoded mentality that all
over the country ageing Leftists are hiding their
Che Guevara T-Shirts and pulling on cardigans and
"Who Me?" expressions.

"Leftists" of the old sclerotic imagination, no longer
exist.

As for Trump?

Australians are a pretty tolerant and liberal bunch
on the whole. Australia is not a particularly
religious nation, and even right-leaning voters are
generally wary of American-style flag waving and heart-
holding.

Just thought you'd like to know.

Foxy,

That the old cold war definitions of left = communist/right= capitalist no longer exists has not eluded me, however, what seems to have eluded you is that the definitions of left/right have morphed over time and today common parlance has progressive / left whinge pretty much as analogues including the toxic identity politics etc, whereas free speech and individual liberty seems to have moved into the right/conservative arena.

While I understand that you would prefer the self-conferred title of progressive, I view it as a bit of an oxymoron considering the intolerance and venom shown to anyone that deviates from the "progressive" orthodoxy such as Germaine Greer etc.

Until such time as the "non-conservatives" actually demonstrate behaviour that is worthy of the appellation "progressive" I will continue to use the moniker left whinge.

Dear Shadow Minister,

You wrote;

“The bile and invective from SR”.

Oh please.

Look, I thought we had gotten off to a fairly even start in this thread and I even complimented you on a 'measured response'. I let the 'genetics for idiots' jibe slide and although there was a little to and fro it was all pretty innocuous and general in nature.

Then you called me personally a 'sick puppy' which signalled to me it was gloves off or did I get that wrong? Not that I mind more testy exchanges, though they are always a distraction from what we are discussing.

Saying that replying to you in kind is an example “of why the left whinge is such a danger” is either you being a snow flake or worse claiming that only the right are permitted to use pejorative terms. Look I get that you have the assumption that the left are more measured and gentle in debates and that bombast and put-downs the domain of the right. And that is certainly borne out in the majority of the posters here on OLO. However you should know by now that hasn't been me for a long while now so stop sooking when it happens.

More than happy to hit reset again on the next topic. It will be up to you on the tone.

SM,

Ideology was so often the driver of Left-Politik yet
now moderation seems to be their schtick. And the
idologues are on the Right. Which is scary.

Red hair works for Trump , P Hanson and F Anning . Hanson has lost people as fast as Trump has , would be an excellent president and Anning fits vice-president where they won't have to follow party voting instructions. This will put China ( and Canada) in its place
and make moslim think again.

SR,

Considering you fired the first shot with:

"It is quite amusing how much effort and dishonesty you on the right are putting into waving the flag for this bloke."

It would appear that you are more than a bit sookie yourself. I will gloves back on if you do.

Foxy,

The left is moderate and the right are the ideologues? what a joke, the entire agenda of identity politics and PC culture/thought police is driven by the left.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Which was in reply to a similar general retort from you.

"BS fantastical claims made by the left whingers"

There is a difference though from 'you lot' to 'you personally'. The 'sick puppy' was personal.

Look, as fun as these more robust exchanges can be I value far more when I am forced put in the research to defend a position. Why else would I have been induced to seek and read the DNA report from Warren?

Sniping at each other is like eating at Mcdonalds, satisfying at first but delivering little ongoing nutrition.

SM,

I realise that "cultural Marxism" is a uniting
theory for Righwingers who love to play the victim.
It accounts for things they disapprove of - things like
Islamic immigrant communities. feminism, and - er -
Bill Shorten, and of course the ABC.

SR,

OLO is no fun without a Nemesis. Our debates force me to learn too, and I will endeavor to steer away from the personal.

Foxy,

I don't believe that I have ever used the term cultural Marxism especially as I am sure that the people using don't know what it actually refers to and are using it as a catch all for all leftist ideas.

From what I understand is that cultural marxism is a term developed in Germany by disaffected Marxists concerned that in spite of their beliefs that capitalism was thriving and not collapsing, and that communism was delivering totalitarianism, mass murder and misery. The theory was something along the lines that socialism / capitalism was a culture war and that people would not be ready for a socialist utopia until they were molded into the correct temperament.

Today, it is aimed particularly at identity politics leading to people being treated as members of a group rather than as individuals, political correctness controlling speech, and "rights" eroding freedoms.

I personally prefer to be more specific than general and tackle the issue directly.

It is very near midnight in America, in about eight hours the vote begins.
Trump is on his pat my pack tour [it is his hand patting his back]
He squeaks hate and fear, tells of a Democratic party that is so far let it is dangerous.But any observation of him leaves no doubt it is his right wing group who are dangerous

Dear Belly,

It will be delicious hearing how he is going to spin the loss of the House of Reps. Sure the Senate given this cycle is likely to remain Republican so maybe he will focus on that, but a 30 seat shift in the reps is going to be hard to dress up.

Perhaps he will blame Hilary.

What a hoot!

SteelRedux this thread may go on forever.
More questions will be asked now he has as we both said, lost one but gained in the other.
He can ,and will, remove white house officials because he has control of the senate and can not be stopped confirming the replacements
He, in my view, will ramp up the conspiracy junk, blaming a deepstate /Democrat plot for the losses.
Yes we live in interesting times

Dear Belly,

I think it is rather that he has lost one and retained the other as he already had control of the Senate. Wrestling it off the Republicans was always going to be a big ask given that these seats were taken in the middle of Obama's run 6 years ago and some were always going to slide back. That is not to say the Democrats made the most of their opportunities.

What has been delightful is how women candidates have featured so strongly in this election.

I am rather looking forward to seeing those tax returns though. Ah good times.

If they get his tax indictment ready by 22 November , the President can pardon himself. In the National Thanksgiving Turkey Presentation a domestic turkey is pardoned .

SteelRedux yes it was impossible to take the senate, on these figures he may even get a second term.
IF he can survive honest investigation of his tax/family working in the white house/the current investigation in to Russian involvement.
We both must confront a truth,America is a B Grade Movie, its voters akin to those who think WORLD CHAMPION WRESTLING is real.
He has a target, he will blame *a deep state* that never existed, for any set back, and the hillbilly right will suck it up.

More chuckle worthy news from fantasy Island [the white house] Trump sacks sessions and his attack on CNN is humorous, but telling too.
Has the man got the early stages of dementia

Oh this is quite joyous.

Trump's pick for the next US Ambassador for the UN is ... wait for it ....

“President Donald Trump has nominated handbag designer Lana Marks to be the next US ambassador to South Africa. Marks, a Florida resident and member of Trump's exclusive Mar-a-Lago resort, according to a source familiar with the club, was born and raised in South Africa, where she attended the University of the Witwatersrand and the Institute of Personnel Management in Johannesburg, the White House said in a statement.”
http://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/14/politics/trump-lana-marks-south-africa/index.html

Oh good, the role is in safe and if anything over qualified hands then.