unravel,

The USA has the most civilian owned guns, about 112 guns for every person of its legal population yet it ranks 99th, so it is inescapable that it is safer than 98 countries that have less guns, so more guns equals less crime.

Australia has more guns per head of population than the UK yet the UK has a higher murder rate than we do, so once again more guns less crime.

It is completely fatuous to equate more guns with more crime, the crime rate is falling in Australia yet we are getting more and more guns and more and more licenced shooters.

Is Mise

You proved the point that you can't simply generalise across countries when you compare number of guns with the crime statistics.

….so more guns equals less crime..... …...It is completely fatuous to equate more guns with more crime....

By your own admission both Australia and the UK have less guns than the USA and both Australia and the UK are safer than the USA. Saying more guns equals less crime is as fatuous as equating more guns with more crime.

So if a simple comparison of guns across countries does not work, then look at another comparator.

To me the most obvious one is gun legislation. That legislation is specific to each place, when it is amended you can compare the data before and after, at the same time allowing for other factors like population growth. Crime and homicide figures are shown either per capita or per a set number, usually 100,000. If you revisit that ABC data, it clearer shows that per capita gun ownership is down.

http://crimestats.aic.gov.au/NHMP/1_trends/

Look at the stats, both the homicide rate and use of firearms in homicides is down. Use of knifes currently is down, but over the period listed the average is probably slightly higher. No one can definitively say that the gun legislation alone is responsible for the drop. Better policing and/or other factors could have played a role. But remember, even with domestic terrorism being more likely since the legislation the figures still have dropped.

Feel free to choose another comparator or another place to compare.

unravel,

If you look at the crime stats you will see that gun crime in Australia has been falling at a steady rate since before 1996 and has continued, Howard's gun laws didn't do a thing.

One wonders, however, how the Lindt Cafe incident could have happened; the firearm involved was unregistered, illegally modified and what's more, banned under the law; failure.

//One wonders, however, how the Lindt Cafe incident could have happened; the firearm involved was unregistered, illegally modified and what's more, banned under the law; failure.//

How does a failure of law enforcement to adequately police illegal firearms equate to an argument in favour of loosening gun control? I fail to see the connection.

And remember, two wrongs don't add up to a right.

Relying on statistics for safety or otherwise of guns and comparing nations is unwise.No crime should be committed by use of guns.After all guns are not essential items for any one's living and survival. Why should we give opportunity to any one specially the mentally deranged to commit a crime by giving him or her a gun.Besides many other means to commit a crime guns need not be added to the list. Civilized society should not allow guns at personal level. Gun culture signifies that the social environment in the society is one of large scale alienation. Urbanization and the consequential anonymity is an important aspect to be taken into account in this regard.
As civilized persons we must differentiate our selves by not attacking others physically like the primitive man.

Is Mise

I did look at the crime stats that's why I posted the link. Note the comparable fall in gun homicides compared to other methods, 63% fall guns, 38% fall stabbings, 24% beatings, 15% other. I'll let others judge if that is an above trend drop for gun homicides and if the gun laws “didn't do a thing”. As said previously no law is perfect. If we follow your logic we may as well repeal all laws that don't work 100%.

Follow the next link for a snapshot on multiple studies across the world and comparisons in general.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/4/16418754/gun-control-washington-post

This is the link to the major study it refers to

http://academic.oup.com/epirev/article/38/1/140/2754868

Overall, introducing a combination of broad gun control legislation trends to a reduction in homicides. So from my perspective if the research of multiple studies shows that a drop is more likely with this type of legislation, I'll remain pro-legislation.