Foxy,
You said, "The Palestinians are not particularly effective at translating their message to a western audience"

I think the Arabs are particularly good at relating their message to the Israelis. It is. 'We will kill all Jews and wipe Israel from the map'
They have stated this many, many times.

The Arabs have tried this many times and have failed each time as the Israelis are superior, both in military and moralistically. But the Arabs are too dumb to learn.

I think Israel has been very patient in the face of the constant threats and terrorism they have faced.

Dear Banjo,

«The Arabs have tried this many times and have failed each time as the Israelis are superior, both in military and moralistically.»

Very true, but we must be watchful that this gap doesn't close.
Scrutinising the morality of Israelis, well and beyond anyone else's, is a blessing for Israel and should be welcome.

Israel's morality has been truly outstanding until 1967, then it fell sharply, but fortunately not as low as the Arabs' - or else it wouldn't exist. For Israel to regain its strength and purpose it must withdraw from the rest of the occupied territories (as it already withdrew from Gaza and Sinai); and since there is no one to talk with on the Arab side, it should do so unilaterally (leaving the Jewish settlers behind to fend for themselves, if so they wish). Israel is strong enough militarily to afford so.

Dear Banjo,

A military force (Israel) supported by the super power of the US,
with all of its military advantages cannot claim to be
a victim when they are also the occupiers and have total
control of the land they are occupying.

Dear Foxy,

None of us, no matter how strong, has total control of our land.

Look in your own yard - do you control the ants?
So long as they stay in the yard going about their business and allowing you to hang your clothes to dry, you are fine, but once they come in droves into your kitchen, well then you need to do something and it ain't easy.

Granted, you are much stronger than any ant, but total control? you would wish...

Foxy,
Thank you, I always enjoy reading your posts as well. You always add interesting points to the debate.

The Palestinian Isrealie, situation, is a worrying situation,
The Egyptians no doubt can claim the Suez canal and the Straits of Tiran as their territorial waters.
The ISraelies have been forced to make their homeland in Palestine because of their ethnic cleansing from Germany in the second world war.
IT was noteable after the war, that no country in the world, would allow re-settlement of so many Jews in their countries,that includes Australia, and Britain, I think maybe the Americans took a llimited amount. It always strikes me as a bit ironic that, these countries condem Germany for wanting to rid their country of Jews, and yet, for all this
condemnation, it seems the Australians and British didnt want them in their countries either. Neither did the Arabs, who were given no choice, because the British decided to give the Jews a homeland in Palestine, because they didnt know what to do with them
The Jews too are a victim of circumstances after being driven out of Germany with nowhere to go. They have no choice but to try to do the best with the land they were given.
The Arabs understandably, arent very keen on the idea.

The Arabs however, believe Europe and the Western countries should take all the Arab immigrants, millions of them, who want to come into those countries, but they dont like Jewiish refugees in their countries. That seems to be a double standard.
Mankind has a warlike nature, it can only be hopefully, held at bay,by prosperity for all, population control and tribal intermarriage. Those 3 things would also go a long way to defusing the Palestine situation. But I dont see any chance of these 3 things happening.

given the refusal of any countries to take them..

sorry, that last line in my post above shouldnt be there. My typing again.
I always think Im not going to write much and dont go over to word processing to type and edit first. My children always say, Im incapable of writing a short text message.c