I worked for a woman's centre that had a child sexual assault service. My son died of completing suicide when he was 31 as he had told me years before his paternal grandfather had sexually assaulted him when he was a young child. No one believed him as his suicide notes kept mentioning it.

I did I knew the man, and he once told me, 'I am teaching Jamie something about sex' I took that in one ear and out the other. But he had mentioned it to his step mother when the same man was going to be thrown out of a nursing home for assaulting bed ridden women and stealing money from them. She never told his own father till years later, because she thought her husband would blame her for not telling him at the time. She was embarrassed and being a blue ribbon type who thought they were superior to others didn't want any scandal. Jamie died because he was haunted about his sexual identity. It caused a rift between my ex husband and his wife after he died. It hasn't healed either after nearly 20 years. Well, she was to blame,and his daughter came under universal attention while trying to accuse two high flying bank executives had sexually harassed and raped her. The court case was thrown out and she was charged over 6 million dollars damages.

Back to the job I once had. The worker who dealt with child sexual assault victims, revealed child victims never really get over it, especially if the parents don't believe them or it is a family member who assaults them. But a big conference back in 1988 said, 'The problem we have now is psychological abuse, something that doesn't fall into the criminal category. Hard line extremist religious parents can damage a child beyond starving them, or sexually or mentally abusing them. Sometimes the two go together and the child never really gets over a fear of hell.

OMG! What you and your family have experienced is tragic BB. I can't even imagine what you have been though.

That is why people like NNN shouldn't be listened to.

They keep wanting to divide abuse into catergories that suit them, and not address the problems contained in all levels of abuse. In the end they just do the bidding of the religions.

They will trivialise anything to justify their pathetic positions.

The covering up of abuse in all parts of society continues because of the pathetic positions taken by the religions.

The corruption of religions/religious permeates all levels of society and their evil, unGodly methods bear no bounds.

How a judge can be a believer stuns me....They are supposedly learned!

How a politician can be a believer astounds me also until you realise that they are driven by little or no morality anyway or a hidden agenda to manipulate society on behalf of the group financing them.

Lying to children, indoctrinating children, manipulating children etc are all forms of emotional and mental abuse.

Religion has deadened the believer mind so much they have lost the ability to see the obvious...Afterall they believe in talking snakes and floods that never happened...lmao

I know what I went through on my journey to break away from the lies of religion. Lucky for me I was sufficiently motivated to study the Bible properly and to realise all the lies as I had been told in the name of God...lmao

I'd pity the likes of NNN and Josephus but they don't deserve pity, they deserve scorn!

You will note they are too scared to ever answer questions because I know the Bible too well and they will be proiven wrong again.

So you brave believers amongst us... Did God really order the cutting off of the heads of the vanquished?

Numbers 25:4 And THE LORD SAID unto Moses, TAKE ALL THE HEADS OF THE PEOPLE, AND HANG THEM UP BEFORE THE LORD AGAINST THE SUN, that the fierce anger of the Lord may be turned away from Israel.

Your beloved Bible says God did...lmao

Opine 2. I got divorced from my first husband in the old Family Law Act. Because he was an ex RAF officer and Qantas pilot, and I had three children we decided that he was better equipped for the day to day care of the children. He brought his elderly parents out from England to care for them when he was away. That worked out fine for a while, I lived less than 1 mile away. I got a job and lived with my girl friend during the time he was home and stayed there when he was on a flight.

However, he had several ladies, and most were OK with me, until one. But then he married a air hostess who had nothing to do with our break up.

But after my second sons death, I was rethinking what I had done. I had no choice on the divorce, I was English, no work experience to talk about, no single parents pension then, and I was scared of my husband. He was in intelligence in the RAF,knew about brain washing, and once the brakes on our car were making a terrible sound, and there were no brake pads left, either wear or ? So? I do feel let down by marriage and my second marriage failed too. It is funny, my first husband said, 'Who wants an intelligent wife' and my second, "Who wants a wife better educated than them." I enrolled in university. Neither wanted an independent woman. But I would not be repressed and I grew wings after I became a single person again. Yes got educated OK. My majors were archaeology, palaeoanthropology and ancient history. And published a book and multiple articles and short stories.
Both my husbands are nearly millionaires, but me I live with my eldest son, in a nice home inherited from my mother. On a pension. We cope, but I wish I had more money.

Bush Bunny, you have my sympothies from what you've been through, and my praise for working in the women's center. I hope that where ever you are now in Life, that God grants you His love and His strength.

(If you don't believe in God, please don't be offended. I wish you well by the standard I rest all my hopes on.)

To Toni Lavis. I was not aware of the hell house productions. My upbringing did not have that in it. Did you grow up with that kind of influence?

As for the examples of both Christian and Islamic cults, I think those examples are more of a reflection on the leaders of those cults and their evil to do harm and to rape. The religion they say they are based on aren't really represented there in my opinion.

Regarding Jehovah Witnesses though, that's harder for me to judge well. They've grown enough to not be centered around one charismatic leader, and there are communities that build eachother up within Johova Witnesses. I'm not for Johovah Witnesses because I've heard stories about them that I can't accept.

In my opinion religion is an umbrella term. Howevet, each religion should be judged according to their own people and their own beliefs. Not judged by other religions or by splinters off of that religion by charismatic but evil leaders.

I wish I could tell you that the Christian church is blameless, that abuse doesn't exist in it. But throughout history even in churches and members of the church there is abuse. As well as in every other part of society there's abuse. I'm not saying this to excuse abuses, but to show that we are all broken as a world as a whole. No one can really say "I part of (X group) and they have never had any abuses or corruption or crime among it's members.

Instead I stand by what I said earlier that if you think there is abuse going on, then do something to intervene. Let that be your standard of what counts as abuse and what counts as just hard experiences in life. If you have to call the authorities on a church because the priest or pastor is a pedophile, then do it. Get the man behind bars and away from harming more people. If you don't feel the need to call the authorities, then really question yourself if there is actual abuse going on or not.

Not_Now.Soon,

So, are you saying that you WOULD call child services on parents that excessively yell at their child to the point of abuse?

<<But if it becomes abusive at one point, having an expert come in in my opinion is the right thing to do.>>

I don’t think I would in the vast majority of cases. It would have to be pretty extreme and constant for me to do so.

<<Is spanking abuse, is yelling at your kids abuse, is not supporting them in all their ideals abuse …>>

Sometimes; sometimes; maybe if those ideals were fundamental to remaining in free society, although I’d imagine such parents would be in prison.

<<I'm not yet a parent, but it seems like society bombards itself with conflicting standards for what is abusive and what isn't.>>

I am a parent and I don’t get that impression. I think the non-specific examples you provide are either exaggerated or don’t happen. I resisted smacking my children in public, but that’s about it. Although, as a general rule, I avoided smacking as much as possible.

<<I don't see religious training (from my limited knowledge of most religions) as abusive.>>

Yes, as Toni Lavis highlighted, your experience is very limited.

Those who have managed to escape the Jehovah’s Witnesses can tell you of some shocking psychological abuse. But it doesn’t have to be Hell houses or fringe Christian sects like the JWs. Simply telling a child that a place like Hell exists and that that’s were non-believers or bad people go, is abusive - no matter how gently it’s put. To a slightly lesser degree, so too is the doctrine of Anihilationism.

<<This is the only exception I am aware of that teaching a religion becomes abusive, and rightly should have interventions to stop the abuse.>>

I really wish people would click the links I provide.

<<… would you consider calling the authorities during a church's Sunday school …? If the answer is no then I really would challenge if [religious instruction] is a form of abuse.>>

No, I wouldn’t.

Continued…