Here is why I used the example of 1+1=2 in the above post.

We all know that in science we use the "Theory of" to keep the door open for further discoveries that might change those theories and clarify the evidence within the theories. So it is actually the "Theory of Gravity" that explains the main energy between bodies in the Universe.

In Math, however, it is a bit more certain...1+1...does...equal...2.

So many people, if asked, say I know 1+1=2. A believer might say I know God exists in the next breath. Suddenly, a fact has been very deceptively placed on the same level as belief.

Imagine that in the mind of a child. Indoctrination can be that simple and that quick.

That is why I always nail believers for their manipulations of discussions. It starts with the little airy fairy explanation of God being the head of the household etc. and the manipulation begins.

The facts are that they intentionally and deceitfully leave out the bad bits of the Bible but still say it is God's word.

So kids believe Baby Jesus stories and the Bible as absolutely true in the same manipulated thought process.

Believers claim to be good people but they believe every person who doesn't follow their belief is going to hell....an outrageous lie........there is no hell.

So abuse doesn't have to be the outrageous sexual abuse that the religions have covered up...It is also the lying to manipulate minds.

Believers never say "Call the Police" in the worst abuse cases. That is why believers are quite accepting of indoctrination, lying and deceit to children not being abuse....when it is.

It is simply designed to deceitfully manipulate children's minds so in certain areas they never question the lies. Religion is their area of choice.

In their heads it is as factual as 1+1=2 and I don't stand for their lies.

If you can't see these simple manipulations, I do, and I correct them loudly!

To Bush Bunny. I'm sorry for your loss. As AJ Philips said earlier, no parent should have to bury their kids. But your right our memories of those who passed on are something for us to hold on to for those of us who live on. Wish you the best Bush Bunny.

To AJ Philips. Thanks for the clarification, I think I need to clarify my own words as well. Earlier you quoted me to say that excessive yelling is not an instance to call child services. What I meant is that yelling itself is not abuse, it is only abuse when it becomes constant or excessive in some other way (usually gets past yelling at that point). If a parent gets short once in a while it might show a struggle that the parent is having but not be considered abuse. I would not try to call some other service to intervene at that point. But if it becomes abusive at one point, having an expert come in in my opinion is the right thing to do. If for no reason other reason to try and assist the parents and children to be in a better situation or handle themselves better with some parenting advise or tools for the parents themselves.

However parents struggle with parenting styles being called abuse a lot more now a days. Is spanking abuse, is yelling at your kids abuse, is not supporting them in all their ideals abuse, or is it abuse to do this or that or the next thing. I'm not yet a parent, but it seems like society bombards itself with conflicting standards for what is abusive and what isn't. Or if the parent is new, bombard them with uncertainty that could draw them away from their roles of being an active parent loving and protecting their kids. (Because if they do it wrong their kids can be taken away). So instead they do less, get less involved, or are fearful of consequences because even though they aren't abusive, they aren't the greatest parents either, and possibly struggle with juggling parenthood, work and other stresses of life.

(Continued)

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Because of this I think we should only call something abuse when it really is abuse. And when there is abuse, whether because of an active form or abuse (such as violence, exposure to unsafe conditions [drugs possibly] or cruel and over the top punishments like locking kids in a closet, or a basement, or confining them for hours or days); or if it is a neglectful form of abuse, like leaving your kids in the hot car, or neglecting to feed them. If there is real abuse calling someone to assist the issue or remove the children while the issue persists, (or permanently even); that should be what we do. If it isn't abuse though I don't what us calling it abuse.

I don't see religious training (from my limited knowledge of most religions) as abusive. The only exception I know is not so much about teaching your kids about the truth as you know it. (It is a parents obligation to prepare there children for the world even if the parent is wrong about how the world really works. On this I think you and I mostly agree.) but from what I've heard about an Islamic practice of killing family members either because a daughter had sex (regardless of choosing to or not.) or killing a child because they reject Islam and become atheist or turn to another religion. This is the only exception I am aware of that teaching a religion becomes abusive, and rightly should have interventions to stop the abuse. On that note, would you consider calling the authorities during a church's Sunday school, because of the abuse they are doing to the children? If the answer is no then
I really would challenge if Sunday school (or religious teaching in general) is a form of abuse.

It's not indoctrination it's teaching. I stand by that.

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Last thing. You challenged my view (that religious teaching is not abusive) because of the teaching of hell. Perhaps I am alone in not seeing this being taught to kids in the way you've described that is used threateningly or as something to make them excessively fearful. Therefore I used another example that I don't see being taught to kids but none the less I see people struggle with. The example of having nothing to amount to is an abusive thing I've heard some people had to grow up being told. Others aren't told this but struggle with it with regards to their own life and what happens when they die. If you see someone being abused in such a way that they are excessively fearful, or feel threatened, or feel hopeless and worthless, I encourage you to intervene. If not though, then I bet they are not being taught in an abusive way.

//I don't see religious training (from my limited knowledge of most religions) as abusive. The only exception I know is not so much about teaching your kids about the truth as you know it... but from what I've heard about an Islamic practice of killing family members either because a daughter had sex (regardless of choosing to or not.) or killing a child because they reject Islam and become atheist or turn to another religion. This is the only exception I am aware of that teaching a religion becomes abusive//

Are you joking?

http://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/nuwaubian-nation-moors
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/11/children-of-god-church-sex-cult-texas-mexico-fbi
http://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/01/03/racist-cult-leaders-accused-ritualistic-sex-abuse-children-new-lawsuit

And so on. Hell, it's probably easier to find cults that haven't been accused of abuse. Of course, if you ask a cult member they'll tell you that it's not abuse, just religious instruction. And the more extreme denominations of mainstream faiths like Christianity are very, very cult-like in their behaviour, so it can be hard to draw a clear line between what counts as abuse and what doesn't. Obviously raping kids is definitely child abuse. But is indoctrinating them to hate everybody outside their cult child abuse, like the Westboro Baptists do? Is it child abuse when Jehovah's Witnesses refuse life-saving treatment for their children on religious grounds?

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/judge-allows-blood-transfusion-for-jehovahs-witness-boy-against-parents-wishes/news-story/39297b4edd8838e641c1cf47a1361a53

//Perhaps I am alone in not seeing this being taught to kids in the way you've described that is used threateningly or as something to make them excessively fearful.//

Did we watch the same video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7OyAnn3S7Y

Do you really believe that those 'Hellhouses' discussed in the video (what a truly horrific and disgusting idea they are... what the hell is wrong with you Seppos?) are not being used threateningly or as something to make them excessively fearful?