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I've gotten frustrated with some people. I also stand by the bible as my standard, so correcting others views and falsehoods is not my attempt to be holier. But just to stand by what's correct. I failed to many standards of the world and in my faith to count myself as holier then anyone. Please don't walk away with the conclusion of Christians being holier. Or at least don't walk away with the conclusion that I say I'm holier. I just know my need for God. I know this through my experiences and my life too. It's not made up and been untested.

Secondly, as I said before. The details matter. Religions should not be counted as the same thing. Nor should points that are not part of that religion be counted against it. The bible isn't a book about turning lead into gold. Be careful of your rationalizations to not accept any religion. I suspect many of them are without merit, but still sound clever and smart.

Be careful because though I've tried to address your points, you've not seen the lack of credibility in those points and moved on to others that hold the same lack of credibility. Don't take that as an insult, but as an observation.

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Last thing. Jesus told His disciples that His message wasn't for the world because the world is not looking for Him. And that shows a dramatic element. If people aren't looking for God they won't find the truths within His teachings. This is true for both the atheist who rejects any concept of God or gods, as well as true for Christian who loses their focus because of other focuses in life. But there is a lot of good wisdom within the bible that becomes ignored. And there are teachings that lead to following God, and knowing what He wants and expects from us. The believer can lose sight of this sometimes. But the unbeliever that thinks they have no need for any of it is robbed completely from both the wisdom and the nearness to God.

Therefore when rationalizing away anything, be certain that your founded points are based on something of value and merit instead of just a clever mocker of religion. Be sure your not being robbed by your stance that you do not need God. Because you do. We all need Him.

You can do all those things you mentioned, without relying on an ancient book/s whose world view was so different from ours. Our religious laws are harder to comply with than our civil laws. 500 years ago, we might be burned at the stake, or hung drawn and quartered if one was an illegal Roman Catholic priest. I have a stork mark between my eyebrows, it has almost faded now. But eons ago it was a sign of the devil, and I would be drowned, hanged or whatever. (Oh, that is a V, caused by where I lay in the womb.)

You don't need a religion to do good, or find salvation. Probably the Wiccan belief is 'Do what thou wilt, provide it harm nobody' or standby while harm is being done. I just don't know where that leaves our politicians? lol

Please excuse my repeating what I've written so many
times in the past. Here goes:

Many people today see religion as nothing more
than a primitive relic that will eventually disappear
in our more sophisticated modern world. But the fact
that religion is universal in human society - perhaps
the question to ask is - why?

Could it be that religion does have a vital function in
maintaining the social system as a whole?

Perhaps the origins of religion were social, not supernatural.
Whatever their source, the rituals enacted in any religion
enhance the solidarity of the community as well as its faith.

Consider such religious rituals as - baptism, bar mitzvah,
weddings, Sabbath services, Christmas mass, and funerals.
Rituals like these serve to bring people together; to remind
them of their common group membership, to reaffirm their
traditional values; to maintain prohibitions and taboos, to
offer comfort in times of crisis; and in general, to help
transmit the cultural heritage from one generation to the next.

In fact, shared religious beliefs and the rituals that go
with them many sociologists would argue that every society
needs a religion, or at least some belief system that serves
the same functions.

Of course many people no longer believe deeply in traditional
religion, but many have found no satisfying substitute.

Some lacking commitment to a shared belief system, tend to
pursue their private interests without regard for their
fellows.

For many years it was widely felt that as science progressively
provided rational explanations for the mysteries of the universe,
religion would have less and less of a role to play and would
eventually disappear, unmasked as nothing more than superstition.

But there are still gaps in our understanding that science
can never fill. On the ultimately important questions -
of the meaning and purpose of life and the nature of morality.

Few citizens of modern societies would utterly deny the
possibility of some higher power in the universe, some
supernatural, transcendental realm that lies beyond the
boundaries of ordinary experience, and in this fundamental sense
religion is probably here to stay.

Foxy, it's more to do with presentation. In American we have heard of the crazy, bigoted Bible belt. Biologists and other teachers who teach evolution, not creationism are labeled untrustworthy and black balled in society and work. However, a new wave of churches are flourishing. They are but are there to help people and are part welfare too. Bringing people in their communities together, there is some singing, which is a ploy but it does lighten the soul and make people happy. Like laughter. They are hands on Christians.

However I doubt if Judaism or Islam will lighten up for a long time. I have a beautiful granddaughter I have not seen since she was 4, because she was born out of wedlock to my youngest son. They left where I lived and moved away. I managed to send birthday and Christmas presents via her great grandfather. He left and I stopped sending presents as I never got any acknowledgement of her receiving them, or if she even knew about me and her biological father. They were strict Seventh Day Adventists. Then all of a sudden her step father contacts my son, and they made contact. But - she didn't know about me trying to keep contact with her for 10 years after she left. I know why, I have a degree in Archaeology and Palaeoathropology, of course I am an evolutionist. And her mother, once said, you are not saying we evolved from monkeys. I gave her a book, but she didn't believe it. We did not evolve from monkeys or higher apes, but we shared a common ancestor years and years ago, at least six million years. So don't tell me our bible lovers are honest and truthful if they believe that we walked with dinosaurs and the earth is only 10,000 years old.

The thing is that the step father against his wife's wishes tried to make contact, as my granddaughter did not know about the presents and gifts I had sent her, in fact she didn't know she had another father.

It's easy to look at religion with rose coloured glasses and look for the good in it...afterall that is all that believers do...That's easy!

Religion in some instances MAY have done good things in society, but, was it really religion that was the catalyst or was it just good people promoting the changes because they have morals.

I can only really analyse me in these issues. Do I do good things because of religion or is it more associated with my environment.

After years of analysis I give credit to my parents and my family more than I could ever give credit to religions.

THE RELIGIOUS LIED TO ME AND CONTINUE TO DO SO! THEY CONTINUE TO LIE TO CHILDREN, INDOCTRINATING THEM WITH A MIX OF FEAR AND BABY JESUS STORIES! It is outrageous behaviour and a form of abuse!

In fact if you were to analyse why I post like I do...my bluntness is caused by the lies and the ongoing justifications of those lies by the religious.

The OT is ancient people's trying to work out how things begun and there is absolutely no supernatural in the stories. The psychopathic writers like Moses justified everything by putting "God said" in front of things to manipulate and confuse.

It worked!....and continues to work amongst the simplistic believers today.

Never gloss over lies, and the analysis through proper education through illogical superstitious rubbish by getting lost looking for a silver lining...

We can't progress as humans by believing superstitious nonsense and lies and blinding ourselves to the real evidence.

You can't call people good if they deliberately lie and continue to fleece the sheep through those lies and who cover up crimes within their organisations.

If there is life after death supposedly like the believers think...lol) they won't be allowed into heaven because they are part of the problem NOT part of the solution!

You simply can't claim to have a good heart, when you believe people who think and believe differently to you, are going to rot in the eternal lakes of hell, a place that doesn't even exist!