//I told him it was a Maori caving of a tiki, which represented the first man created, much like Adam, in the Christian Adam and Eve story, and it supposedly kept evil sprites away. I don't think he found that too amusing.//

Mormons don't have much sense of humour. I always liked Stephen Fry's story about how he was kicked out of Salt Lake City for being sarcastic.

He was on a guided tour with a Mormon elder, who was naturally attempting to convert the tour group. In order to win them over, he pointed out what Mormons consider to be a main selling point of their religion: that when they die, Mormons will be re-united with their families for all eternity.

'And what happens if you've been good?' was Fry's response.

He was asked to leave. Not just the tour, but the whole of Salt Lake City.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzpH-PkMw74

I spent some time in Salt Lake City, heartland of the Mormons. I was there to work on the installation of an imaging device in Brigham Young University. The local Unitarian Church has a congregations of which most seem to be former Mormons. This was many years ago, but at the time there were many gorgeous, leggy, intelligent, young blonde women, refugees from Mormonism, attending the Unitarian Church. If the situation is the same the Unitarian Church will provide stimulation for an enterprising young man.

Dear Not_Now.Soon,

«because we can't know how everything pans out»

But we do!

We do know that God's will will be done. We do not hope that God's will be done - we are certain of it. There never is a time, never was, never will be, when God's will is not done.

So long as we have personal desires, so long as we want our personal will to prevail rather than God's, so long as we fail to love God with all our heart, along come hope and fear: hope that our desires be fulfilled and fear that they won't. However, this hope is not a virtue and has nothing to do with religion - it's just normal human folly.

To David f.

[You started this string trying to get others to join you in your delusion.]

There is nothing wrong with hoping others will find God. God is worth finding. He's not a delusion. If you find something good in life, big or small, aren't you happy when others find the same happiness? That was my intent with hoping anyone else will find God. But even that is an insult to you. Give it a break. I get the feeling that if you sneeze and I say "God bless you," even that will be taken as an insult.

Your figuring on basically everything I've tried to say has been wrong. Not because your not Christian. But because they are incorrect. As for being a hypocrite. You are ok with calling yourself a missionary but against me to the fullest to even approach my faith in public discourse. There's nothing to fear from me. More people wanting to help other people because of their faith will do good to the community. It won't end with burning people at the stake. However your attitude seems to be a lot more harsh and threatening then anything I think I could deserve.

I know good people who don't believe in God. As good as I am anyways and they are encouragement to be good to others. I know good people of the same quality who believe in God too. Your fear of Christianity in the world is greatly in error. Christianity is not the face of evil, but does more good then any harm blamed on it.

To Toni Lavis. I've read "American Gods," and am currently reading "The Darkest Hour." When I'm done with that I'll see which book I think I should read next. But I've copied the books suggested to me in these conversations.

To Yuyutsu. I wish I could say I don't worry. But hope is not about fending off worry. It's about letting go of worry. Trusting and hoping are so close to one another that to hope on God and to trust in Him are inseparable in my opinion. For me though, I have to hope. Every thing about life has to have hope, because the world is broken. And largely there's nothing we can do.

Dear NNS,

Regardless of how sincerely you believe in God there is no evidence for its existence. Your denial of that does not mean your belief is anything but a delusion. You don't agree with me so you call me incorrect, but you offer no proof that I am incorrect. Assertion is not proof.

I do not go around trying to convert people to my beliefs. However, I become a missionary for reason only to oppose your nonsense.

You have insulated yourself from facts and excuse the excesses of Christianity. From my reading Christianity is a mixture of good and bad with the bad predominating, Humanity's struggle to create secular states is a narrative of getting free from the grasp of Christianity. It doesn't apparently matter what evil Christianity does you will excuse it.

My attitude toward you is harsh. I am sure you think you are doing something good by spreading your nonsense. Some Christians have looked at Christianity and can see its flaws. They have the idea that tey can get rid of the bad parts. Maybe they can if enough Christians will listen to them. To do that they must not ignore or excuse the evil past but must examine it and see how it came about.

"A New Christianity for a New World" by Bishop Spong is an example of this kind of thought.