To Toni Lavis and mhaze.

Great pairs of movies. :)

//You'll need to go beyond the trilogy. I think its in the 4th or 5th book we find out that Dent et al have returned to to a new earth that was kindly supplied by the dolphins - the second most intelligent creature on old earth.//

I was including 'So Long and Thanks For All the Fish' as part of the trilogy (because it's a trilogy in four parts). Although for some reason I had it in my brain that the second earth was commissioned by the mice after the Vogons fouled up their first experiment. Which, as it turns out, is completely wrong. Definitely time to re-read them.

//IF you're interested in the mechanics of multiple timelines, I saw a good doco on it recently, called "back to the future". It was like a TED talk (only entertaining) where a professor (or Dr) E. Brown explained how multiple time lines occur.//

Wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff.

//Great pairs of movies. :)//

I thought the Hitch-Hikers movie left a lot to be desired. Arthur Dent, the Guide and the whale were well cast, and the special effects were good. And that's about all I can say in it's favour. I can never, ever forgive whichever retard it was that decided that it would be a good idea give Marvin Alan Rickman's voice (good choice) and then ruin it all by giving him that stupid bulbous head. WTF? He's an android: he's supposed to look reasonably humanoid.

Ahem.. do excuse my ranting. Basically, NNS, you'd be better of reading the books instead of watching the movie. Although the old BBC telemovies still hold up quite well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4q6qBuSjHk

The BTTF trilogy are still great movies.

NNS wrote: "You seem to lack experience with Christianity and hate it out of a conceptual vantage point rather then anything you've witnessed or seen."

Dear NNS,

People with much experience with Christianity have been massacred, burned at the stake or suffered in other ways. I have been fortunate in not having that experience, but I have read about the sufferings of others. I have read about Christian fostering of igmorance and its murder of hertetics, scientists, Jews and others. I am repelled by the mindset that has implemented those horrors. You apparently know little of this and have excused Christian horrors in various ways. There has already been discussion of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

I am thankful I live in a country where Christianity is not allowed to continue those practices. I have read of Christianity opposing science and denying evolution and other scientific ideas. My extensive reading about Christianity gives me a horror of its intolerance and its cruelty. I can only be thankful that I am living in a country where the horrors of Christianity have been reined in.
Most of the people I live among are Christians. Most make no attempt to convert me but practice "Live and let live."

I can be thankful that I do not live in a time and place where Christianity is free to practice its cruelties. The horrors of unrestrained Christianity are a matter of record. Christianity of course is not the only practitioner of horrors. other religions can do a great job of it, also.

However, I don't see how a knowledge of the horrors of Christianity and a rejection of the importunities of Christian missionaries makes me a hypocrite.

Many Christians can live in their delusions ignorant of past horrors and even have distorted history to the extent that they feel the good things in our society all stem from Christianity rather than being sparked to a large extent by opposition to Christianity.

There is some good that has come from Christianity, but my reading of history tells me it is outweighed by its evil.

Oh, and speaking of books: how'd you go tracking down those others I recommended, NNS? 'American Gods' has been adapted for television, but it's a big book and they've only released the first series... so you could be waiting a while.

And 'Good Omens' is also due to get its small screen debut in the near future. I believe they're filming at the moment. I'm having kittens about it, 'Good Omens' is one of the funniest books I've ever read. They've got David Tennant playing Crowley, which is a very good omen indeed.

But I recommend the books first. The book is almost always better than the film.

Dear NNS,

You apparently believe that the Christian god is somehow better than the other gods that people have imagined. Probably you believe that your beliefs are true, and the beliefs of other who believe in something different from your beliefs are worshipping false gods.

Belief that one has the truth is a delusion unless you can provide evidence to support your contention. Surety in one's own mind is not evidence. There is no use in providing you with a reading list about Christianity. We, I am guilty of this also, read primarily what reinforces our prejudices although I try to read what challenges my beliefs. However, there simply is no evidence for the existence of any deity or any supernatural manifestation. If there were evidence it would cease to be supernatural. It is regarded in the New Testament that faith which is belief without evidence is somehow a virtue.

"Because the evidence for the supernatural is imperceptible, belief in it requires us to put our perceptions aside to accept it. I think it's a human interest to give credence to our own perceptions, no? Perceptions that would deny religion must be ignored--doing so is seen as virtuous within the community."

In my opinion faith is a vice more than a virtue. It promotes ignorance.

Some will contend that believing in certain nonsense will make you a better person so it is worthwhile to believe even in fairy tales. of curse we don't all have the same definition of what makes a better person. My definition includes a pursuit of the truth by the scientific method. That doesn't mean that only a scientist is a good person. That means following the evidence wherever it might lead.

You started this string trying to get others to join you in your delusion. Some have approved of this pursuit even though they don't share your delusion. Others have rejected it. Feeling or knowledge that resides only in your own mind remains your delusion.

david f , well said, the above is the most undeniable post on this thread. You are 92? and to have such wisdom, and to be able to express it so clearly is remarkable. Thank you for that.

I have a very lovely niece, aged 32, a kind and gentle soul. She is Mormon, staunch as they come, having done a two year mission in the Pacific etc, at great personal cost. She sees Uncle Paul as a heathen, ripe for conversion, a personal mission. I have agreed to hear what she has to say, and offer my counter opinions. She even got me to agree to meet with a couple of church "Elders" on a mission, (nice young blokes about 25). The two elders turned up one morning unannounced to talk religion, the best thing they got out of me was a glass of lemonade on a hot morning, not a completely wasted exercise on their part. They talked in terms of the "heavenly father", and I spoke about what I seen as the practicalities of life and religion. My niece was quick on the phone with "Uncle what did you think of the Elders?" (they must have given her a report). I gave them the thumbs up, but told her they failed to convert me. Later she got me to agree to attend a Mormon Temple, for a service.I wore the Maori Pounamu my partner had given me some years back, a hei tiki (a man like caving in Greenstone). After the service, at a meeting with the visiting American Bishop, the tiki attracted his attention, asking me what it was, and why was I wearing it. I told him it was a Maori caving of a tiki, which represented the first man created, much like Adam, in the Christian Adam and Eve story, and it supposedly kept evil sprites away. I don't think he found that too amusing. The irony was the tiki had been "blessed" in New Zealand by my partners brother-in-law, who is a Mormon Bishop.