Hi Paul,

The towns of Sydney and Melbourne, on that scale that would make Adelaide a village or even less a dot on the map."

Don't confuse quantity with quality :)

I wasn't thinking of ethnic criminal gangs; I don't think it's as much of a problem in Adelaide as in more lawless cities, except for maybe unemployed Anglos and one or two other groups.

Your point about Italians and Greeks, etc. in the fifties and sixties and seventies: yes, they tended to cluster in low-rent suburbs (although not statistically anywhere nearly as much as 'others' thought), but dispersed to other areas as they settled in, sending their kids on to university rather than into the factories, as Anglo-Australia hoped.

There were plenty of semi-skilled and unskilled jobs back then, and they didn't require high levels of English. They're not there now. But migrants these days - apart from those moving into professional positions - are coming from societies with little industrial history, let alone readying themselves for higher skills. Different times, different groups.

IF migrants are to come here, the government has an obligation to ensure that they either have, or are provided with, the skills that our economy needs now and in the future, not those of a generation - or two generations - ago. It's grossly negligent not to do so. And, of course, English language skills are vastly more necessary now than fifty years ago, as the lingua franca.

Cheers,

Joe

Hi Joe,

The perfect migrant is highly educated with skills that are in demand a person who is work ready. I have come across such people, professional people, who have assimilated quickly into Australian society, in some cases these migrants have substantial financial resources of their own. Such are an absolute bonus for any country. However there are not a huge number of migrants like that.

From 2014/15 figures for 190,000 new arrivals;

"Of people migrating to Australia, 68 per cent are skilled migrants and 32 per cent are from family visa streams. This is further broken down to:
Skill: 38 per cent employer sponsored, 34 per cent skilled independent, 22 per cent state, territory and regional nominated and 6 per cent business
Family: 79 per cent partner, 14 per cent parent, 6 per cent child and 1 per cent other"

The average is somewhat different to the ideal, many as you describe and in need;

"IF migrants are to come here, the government has an obligation to ensure that they either have, or are provided with, the skills that our economy needs now and in the future, not those of a generation - or two generations - ago. It's grossly negligent not to do so. And, of course, English language skills are vastly more necessary now than fifty years ago, as the lingua franca."

This may not be completely achievable with many first generation migrants today, in fact I am sure its not. What is achievable is productive gains from subsequent generations. That has been the past history and hopefully it will continue.

Hi Paul,

I suppose I'm lumping refugees in with migrants: they are very different in terms of skills and origins. It's more likely the refugees who need that government assistance. So what you say about lifting people's skills needs some modification:

"This may not be completely achievable with many first generation migrants today, in fact I am sure its not. What is achievable is productive gains from subsequent generations. That has been the past history and hopefully it will continue."

But those working migrants of forty or fifty or sixty years ago knew the options for their kids and could advise them NOT to follow them into the factories. Current refugees - apart from being refugees and not migrants, i.e. to a large extent coming to Australia unwillingly - are not in the position to advise their kids about career options to anywhere near the same extent.

In a way, the situations that Oscar Lewis describes, in his famous works on 'the Culture of Poverty' are much more relevant: that those populations are marginalised from the outset, and their kids don't have many ways of overcoming that initial disadvantage, and so are more likely to drift into lives of inter-generational marginalisation and petty crime, and to devalue education and work.

As a great fan of Oscar Lewis, a Marxist anthropologist with deep commitments to marginalised groups, I wonder what he would think, and advise, about the current situation here.

Cheers,

Joe

Paul,

You can be relied on to miss the point. What you were banging on about was the citizenship test whilst ttbn was talking about the 457 Visa.

I notice that you automatically assume that the new proposed citizen test is aimed at muslims. Are you racially stereotyping? or perhaps you have recognised that this particular group has the greatest difficulty in integrating Australian values? either way, you are guilty of the same discrimination that you accuse others of.

Addressing the issue of the thread

The main changes to the immigration 457 visa system was to remove the easy pathway to citizenship by:
1 Strengthening the requirement to check for local applicants
2 Reducing the number of job categories for which work visas are applicable,
3 Making only the highest skill levels able to apply for permanent residence.
4 Extending the time for application for citizenship.

Re:Joke of the day from India.

As English is one of the official languages of India and "Indglish" is spoken all over the country, I don't see many Indians having problems.
From personal experience when I've been in a part of India where Hindi is not understood I've always gotten by in English.

Is Mise - The joke is not their English ability it is the fact they are complaining, winging that our Government is going to give first preference to Australians and not Indians.