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The Forum > General Discussion > Obama's passing act of treachery

Obama's passing act of treachery

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Dear Yuyutsu,

There are many varieties of Jews and many degrees of religious observance among them. In Israel some Jews revere the Sabbath and seek to enjoin observance by those Jews who don’t revere the Sabbath. In the United States where there is a great degree of separation of church and state the Sabbath observant Jews are free to live in enclaves, and those Jews who feel differently do not have to live in those enclaves. The western idea of separation and religion does not force their ideas down other people’s throats. Religious people are free to be as observant as they would like to be, but they are not free to force their ideas of observance down other people’s throats. Observant Jews such as the Hasidic Satmar and the Neturei Karta prefer to live in the US rather than in Israel. They may be as observant as they like since they are not under the control of a state which mandates religious practices but are not free to impose their practices on others.

If one is a Jew who wishes to practice his or her religion in the way they choose it is generally better to live in a country which has separation of religion and state rather than in Israel where those Jews in the government specify the way other Jews should practice Judaism.

I don’t agree that it is a wholesome tradition to keep children in ignorance or that western/secular education is corrupting. It seems to me to deny children access to the scientific attitude inherent in the western/secular tradition in favour of belief in Biblical myths is most unwholesome.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 29 December 2016 5:10:40 PM
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http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/the-most-important-video-about-israel-ever-made/
Posted by Josephus, Thursday, 29 December 2016 9:58:58 PM
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Loewenstein has made a career out of Israel-bashing. There will never be a balanced view from him. Really, there is no point in discussing the U.S/ U.N view of what Israel should or should not do - Israel will continue doing what it does, as its PM made clear today. And, Israel does what it does purely in the interests of its defence. Nobody can blame a country for that, particularly when that country is the only democracy in a sea of democracy- hating Islamic extremism. Israel is the only country on the Middle East like ourselves; and we should be supporting it. Anybody who thinks that a cessation of Israeli occupation of disputed - yes, disputed - territory will satisfy the Palestinians and their crazy friends is seriously deluded. Some posters really have a very dim idea of who their friends are, and who their enemies are.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 29 December 2016 10:28:52 PM
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Israel is not a nation. It's merely a foreign enclave created and held by armed violence against the nation on whose land it rests. It has no constitution, the nearest approach being its "Law of return" which is an open statement of its racist foundation. It can't adopt a constitution as to do so would define its borders and as a ceaselessly expansionist entity projecting its military power over the land in which it has its growing toehold it can't do so.

It owes its continued existence to massive subsidies from the USA, subsidies which in an always-at-risk cyclic quid pro quo funds the continuation of these subsidies and the shaky diplomatic support of the politicians it has purchased.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Thursday, 29 December 2016 11:23:46 PM
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"Before June 4, 1967, Jews were forbidden from praying at the Western Wall, Judaism’s holiest site. They were forbidden to attend classes at the Hebrew University at Mt. Scopus, which had been opened in 1925 and was supported by Albert Einstein. Jews could not seek medical care at the Hadassah Hospital on Mt. Scopus, which had treated Jews and Arabs alike since 1918. Jews could not live in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, where their forbearers had built homes and synagogues for thousands of years. These Judenrein prohibitions were enacted by Jordan, which had captured by military force these Jewish areas during Israel’s War of Independence, in 1948, and had illegally occupied the entire West Bank, which the United Nations had set aside for an Arab state. When the Jordanian government occupied these historic Jewish sites, they destroyed all the remnants of Judaism, including synagogues, schools, and cemeteries, whose headstones they used for urinals. Between 1948 and 1967 the UN did not offer a single resolution condemning this Jordanian occupation and cultural devastation.

When Israel retook these areas in a defensive war that Jordan started by shelling civilian homes in West Jerusalem, and opened them up as places where Jews could pray, study, receive medical treatment, and live.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 30 December 2016 6:59:05 AM
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.

Dear Shadow Minister,

.

You wrote :

« A lame duck President initiates a UN resolution that condemns Israel … »
.

My impression is that the Obama administration would probably not have changed its veto policy on UN resolutions condemning Israel for illegally setting up permanent settlements on conquered Palestine territory if Trump had shown a more even hand on the Arab/Israeli relationship throughout the presidential campaign.

I think there are signs of that attitude also in Obama’s determination to retaliate to Russia’s illegal incursions into the US electoral process.

Your criticism of Obama would have been perfectly justified if he had simply washed his hands on both issues knowing that it was no longer his problem and that the new president would be delighted if he did just that.

The Israelis, by the way, are not stupid – nor are the Russians. They will both have understood that Trump can be a very dangerous ally – especially when he tries to help them in his customary bull in a china shop manner.

Perhaps they will manage to herd him into a paddock somewhere and brand him - or do whatever farmers do to calm down bulls theses days.

We'll have to wait and see.

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Friday, 30 December 2016 7:20:43 AM
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