'Unfortunately the only way we will ever find out which Muslims are radicals, and which are so called 'moderates' is if they ever find themselves having to choose sides.'

I wonder of this guy is a moderate Rechtub
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/article93659502.html

Rechub: but I fear we will never become pro active on this issue.

I think Runners idea is proactive & it sounds good to me.

All believers in the Koran are radicals, by definition Muslims believe in the Koran, therefore....

Hi Is Mise,

The eminent South Australian philosopher Frank Pledge has differentiated Christianity and Islam like this:

Consider Christianity.

In Christianity, the relationship between God and “Man” is same as the relationship between a father and his son. The love of a father for his son is limitless and unconditional. However, because of that love, the father allows his son complete freedom to choose his own way in life. He may guide and he may advise, but he does not interfere. The son has free will to choose his own destiny. However, if things go wrong, the son can acknowledge guilt, show remorse, and demonstrate contrition.

In Christianity …

“the prime sacrament of Contrition presupposes the strong and free will that can overcome itself” Spengler

With free will we have the ability to makes choices and therefore can be held accountable for wrong or bad choice. The Christian was born with sin and must accept punishment for his sins. However, under Christianity by showing guilt, remorse, contrition, the son can seek forgiveness and the father will unreservedly and unconditionally forgive. It will be as if the indiscretion never happened. This is the Grace of God, the unconditional forgiveness.

The world is rational and available for rational exploration of cause and effect. With this world view, that the world is rational and that man has free will within it, means man is in charge of his own destiny and can succeed by his own labour.

[TBC]

[continued]

Now consider Islam.

Under Islam, the relationship between Allah and “Man” is the same as the relationship between a father and his son in the Middle East. The love of the father is limitless, but conditional on the unconditional obedience of the son. Islam means “submission” - the son must submit unconditionally to the will of the father. In Islam only the Father, Allah, has free will. Only the father has free agency. Under Islam, everything which happens, only happens “In sha Allah”, by the will of Allah. No one else has agency.

“it is the impossibility of an Ego as a free power in the face of the divine that constitutes Islam. The individual is not seen as having free will since free will takes power away from the God. [ God has no partners says the Qur‘an ] Every happening happens or doesn‘t happen as the Will of God. The world is dominated by the unknowable whim of the God. The world is a battle ground between the opposing forces of darkness and light and the individual is a mere cipher - there is no place for logic and rational thinking since these battles are outside the experience of man. The ‘Majian’ (Muslim) has a ― ‘Will-less resignation’.” Spengler

Since every action is caused by Allah, and no one else has free agency, under Islam there can be no individual guilt, there is no need for remorse, there is no contrition, since no person is ultimately responsible. The Grace of Allah is not bestowed or withheld on the basis of deeds done or not done, since all deeds are done by the will of Allah. Grace comes through unquestioning faith in God. A person submits in the hope of salvation, but salvation is the gift of Allah alone, .....

[TBC]

[continued]

.... man cannot succeed by his own labour, unless it is the will of Allah. It is even only by the will of Allah that a person believes and, also, it is only by the will of Allah that someone doesn‘t believe. No one even has the free agency to believe or not believe. But even though Allah makes people not believe – He will still punish unbelief.

Since the world is not rational but subject to the changing will of Allah, man is not in charge of his own destiny."

So free will, guilt and remorse; vs. divine dictat, shame and dishonour. Opportunity for free expression, human development and democracy, vs. suspicion of anything new, and inevitable totalitarianism.

As an atheist, I certainly feel closer to Christianity, with all its faults. Which many Christians would agree are faults, by the way.

Joe