Paul,
I owe you an apology for the things I said yesterday.
I'm sorry for what I said, it wasn't right for me to say what I did.
I just don't like seeing the country slowly go down the drain.

The issue with the refugees, if we let some or all of them come to Australia, it'll be seen as a way for asylum seekers to get into Australia, which will entice more people smugglers to bring more asylum seekers.

If/ We let Nauru / Manus People out -> Then/ More come, More risk drowning, Nauru / Manus just gets refilled with newbies.

So its a vicious cycle which we can't win and which will just cost more and more to the Australian taxpayer and more people risking their lives and potentially drowning, with nothing ever actually changing as far as population is concerned at the detention centres, maybe it would increase.

These people stuck on Nauru, have been locked up until last year, when they were allowed freedom on the island and really their only was crime crossing our border and not having anywhere to go back to.

Being locked up is bad enough, but the one thing there is to look forward to is when you get out. These people don't even have that and its only reasonable they are losing the plot and doing irrational things like setting themselves on fire, and plenty of other crazy things as well.

So basically were holding these people (some of them who would've been granted entry as genuine asylum seekers) basically as political hostages to stop the vicious cycle that would only continue anyway if we were to let them in.

I'd like to say these people aren't our problem, but unfortunately the second we took the into our care they essentially become our responsibility.

You have to feel sorry for those people that just lit themselves on fire.
That's not the Australian way, that's not really giving them a 'fair go'.
We're not really doing the right thing, we do need to find a better solution.

[cont]
Even if we do let the genuine ones in, we still have the question of what to do with the rejects.
We're still going to have people going nuts in detention, no matter what.
It can't be avoided.

We need to focus on the 'fair' in 'fair go'.

In order to be morally right and fair to the Australian taxpayer, these people the ones who we should be giving a fair go need to pay their way if given the opportunity.
They need to contribute in a way that doesn't compete or take away from Australian jobs.
We can't treat them like criminals, but we can't give them a free-ride just for turning up either.
Essentially they would've passed through other countries on their way here anyway, and that was a choice they made after already escaping from where they came from.

Putting maximum penalties on the people smugglers won't work they will just make the refugees drive the boats here themselves.

If some people are genuine asylum seekers but are trapped as political pawns we really should try our best to make sure they are reasonably well cared for as best we can.

Some of my ancestors might not like what the country has become if they were alive today, but I'm sure they still believed in a fair go.

Armchair, no need to apologise for anything on this forum, I give as good as I get.

On asylum seekers.

I have never advocated an open door policy on refugees, every nation has the right to control who enters through there boarders.

I did say I do not envy our politicians, from all parties, and the decisions they have had to make, some good some not so good. The problem as I see it is double ended. The circumstances of war and dislocation that create refugees in the first place, it is a growing world crises with about 60 million people declared to be refugees or displaced persons, about half are children. Australia has been lucky in that the numbers so far making their way here have been relatively small, but still present a major issue for us. We have concentrated our efforts of dealing with the problem at the end of the chain and not done a great deal, as much as we can, about dealing with the source of the problem. In fact we have taken an active hand in helping create the problems.

The people coming here are not criminals or fanatics in general, but ordinary people, different in many ways to us, but like us in so aspects. What motivates many to make the high risk attempt, is a desire for a better life, not for themselves so much, but for their children, and any Australian who loves their children can understand that. I accept that many of the first generation will be an economic burden, not having work or language skills, but hopeful this will be paid back by successive generations, their children assimilating and becoming positive contributors to Australian society.

I don't pretend to have all the answers, no one does, but I think if we stop playing politics for a moment we night just achieve a better outcome for both them and us.

Paul1405, "Australia has been lucky in that the numbers so far making their way here have been relatively small"

That is not true at all is it? What about the thousands who drowned at sea under Labor+Greens governments? Angela Merkel's stupid moral grandstanding was not new, Galah'd and Rudd and their ships of fools had already stuffed it up in Australia by shafting John Howard's 'Pacific Solution' that had removed the free leg into Australia that the people smugglers were selling.

As for your 'think of the children', it was Labor+treacherous Greens administrations that ended up with over a thousand children in detention. Children not valued by economic migrants who are unprincipled and throw away their papers while on those boats. The children are bargaining chips.

Again, here is the actual footage of Labor and Greens policies in action,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0MHRSFz6FM

You say that you are not for 'OPen Borders' but that is the practical consequence of Greens policies as expressed by SHY and others.

Armchair and Paul,

It's good to see you both exhibiting common sense, sincerity and compassion and understanding.

From my point of view on the refugee problem I suggest go back a step and think what is causing the unrest in the refugee home countries.

There is massive unemployment, under paid employment, and unaffordable food prices.

Numerous countries could do well if they had significant worthwhile and productive new infrastructure projects.

I am holding out hope for NZ PM Helen Clark to be appointed next UN Secretary General, especially because she has experience as Administrator of the UNDP.

Meanwhile how do we get through the political minefield to get worthwhile infrastructure underway in Australia that may provide some hope for the present Manus and Nauru economic and genuine refugees.

And bear in mind people who set themselves on fire were under chronic stress in their own country before seeking Australian way of life. A person with suicide tendency might also turn to suicide bombing, not just burning themselves to death.

Getting troubled people out of their bind does not have to mean open season for people smugglers.

Short low cost saturation tv clips in bordering countries can let people smugglers and refugees know that any future illegal arrivals will go directly to Nauru or elsewhere and will stay there, untill they want to return home.

P1405: The people coming here are not criminals or fanatics in general, but ordinary people, different in many ways to us, but like us in so aspects.

I dispute the fanatic part of that. Anyone with a Religion that commands its followers to kill all Infidels is a fanatical Religion These people have come here to a Country full of Infidels to either convert, enslave or be kill Infidels. That’s not like us at all.

P1405: What motivates many to make the high risk attempt is a desire for a better life, not for themselves so much, but for their children, and any Australian who loves their children can understand that.

So you admit that these people are coming here primarily for economic reasons, not to seek asylum from personal persecution. Under the UNCHR Ruling this is forbidden.

P1405: their children assimilating and becoming positive contributors to Australian society.

Well no. Their Religion specifically forbids assimilation. Their aim is Conversion, enslavement or the death of us Infidels. How is that a positive contribution to Australia?

P1405: but I think if we stop playing politics for a moment we night just achieve a better outcome for both them and us.

A better outcome for them & us would be for them to find an Islamic Country & go there. They would be with people of their own religious persuasion & Australia could start an economic recovery from the mess they have cause us.