Does a man become a woman if his genitalia is removed and he wears a dress? True of False?

Should academic institutions ban people from speaking on the subject of transgender-ism?

Q1. Does a man become a woman if his genitalia is removed and he wears a dress? True of False?

A1. Meaningless question. If one were a man, then they could become a woman, but no one is a man to begin with. "Man/Woman", just like "old/young", is merely a sloppy and imprecise lingual construct that attempts to describe our bodies, not ourselves.

Q2. Should academic institutions ban people from speaking on the subject of transgender-ism?

A2. Assuming it's not during class when the noise can make it difficult for other students to hear and concentrate on the lesson, the answer is No - not so long as they don't ban people from speaking about sports. There should be no rules against time-wasting (though it could cause students to fail their subjects).

"Should academic institutions ban people from speaking on the subject of transgender-ism?"

No body should be banned from saying anything, obviously. As for your first question, you should put it to an appropriate surgeon if you are thinking of have the operation.

Depends on the DNA. If the DNA is changed then maybe so!

What Greer pronouncement?

I stopped listening or reading anything of Greer's 20 years, or more, ago.

Not interested!

Why would you worry about such a thing Roscop? If some bloke wants to have his genitals removed and call himself a woman, why would that have anything to do with you? I couldn't care less.

As for University lectures, I guess it would depend on the course subject about whether transgender would be spoken about.
Maybe you think that if the dreaded word 'transgender' is mentioned it will send the impressionable students rushing to become transgender people?
Is that it?
Lol!

Suseonline, "Why would you worry about such a thing Roscop?"

Doesn't worry me one little bit at my stage in life though I had been amused at why a former head of the Australian Army thinks a member of his force, because the member describes ones-self as transsexual, is now a woman since he referred to that person as a she.

It might however worry some people say if the person was to enter communal toilets/or shower facilities of one sex or the other. It might also worry some people if they were, say, if advances were made by such a person in a bar or in some other social setting.

I remember in my much much younger days when I walking along Lexington Ave in NY I got approached by what appeared to be a very attractive woman. I thought hello what's going on here? But when I heard the person speak and noticed the obvious Adam's apple I was out of there quick-smart.

http://tinyurl.com/nzwmgdd

ttbn,

"As for your first question, you should put it to an appropriate surgeon if you are thinking of have the operation."

What do you mean "appropriate surgeon? The type of surgeon who if I thought I was a penguin could turn me into a real penguin?

Banjo,

"What Greer pronouncement?... Not interested!"

Please explain contradiction.

I suggest you listen to Eric Idle's litle piece in "The Life of Brian". Wants to be a woman called Loretta. Reg pointed out all the short comings of his idea but they agreed he could consider himself a woman.
This put the whole thing in perspective. Now in saying that we do not want to oppress these people they have to understand our derision and our right to show it.
Personally I think it is sad but consider people's feelings so do not want to hurt them.
Doctors who make a nice little earner on mutilating people is a horse of a completely different colour. Media who use them for titillation are not as bad but seriously this is a problem in some people's heads only.
Now we have people saying they are foxes, wolves, seriously. If they are able to support themselves good luck to them but I am stifling a laugh right now.
Bruce Jenner is a castrated man in my opinion.

If medical science advances to the point where, God knows why, it can transplant a fox's tail on some bloke, I suppose that would him a fox. If he was docked, then clearly he would be a female fox.

Simple really.

And I don't give a flying toss one way or the other. A bloke might feel a bit effeminate, grow his hair long, lose his crown jewels, take hormones, but he's still going to be a bloke.

No, I tried but I still can't give a toss one way or the other - I wish I cared about the Self-Only Generation but ....

No, I still don't.

Joe

Greer

Feminists sure hate transgenderism.

The tediously boring, reactionary, human headline Greer is representative of the awful, self-obsessed, entitled, educated white middle class feminist dinosaurs left over from the previous Millenium and over half a Century back. Some still ride the gravy train courtesy of the tight 'networking', cronyism and favouritism, of leftist crews like Emily's List.

The international company I worked for some years ago had some contracts with government and it was noticeable that it was only in the government bureaucracies that transgenders became 'issues'. The feminist controlled unions were absolute mongrels in their treatment of the men to women transgenders and so much so that it was pitiful to witness. Still, it delivered more disabled toilets. The implied categorisation of the affected transgenders as 'disabled' was not lost on the feminists' victims.

However women to male (add the many lesbians dressed and acted male in the bureaucracy anyhow) was quite alright. The feminists could frame a narrative around that, apparently.

It is all about defending that B.S. feminist 'Patriarchy' paradigm. -Always with that overarching goal of protecting the entitlements and 'positive' discrimination enjoyed and being increased by the educated middle class white women who are feminism.

BTW, how is Greer's English country bungalow going? To think, after all of those years of beating up on the British, our inherited system of government and all they stood for. Whose forebears does she thank for that pleasant English acreage? Never you mind, eh what? The nagging feminists have such compartmentalised minds.

If a man puts on a leather jacket and shoes, then downs a chocolate milkshake; Dose that make him a cow?

No Paul, he needs udder things like a leather cap and then becomes a cow.

Oh dear, we're running out of topics.

Paul1405, "If a man puts on a leather jacket and shoes, then downs a chocolate milkshake; Dose that make him a cow?"

Should we be taking it then that union attitudes haven't changed? - That only the first two (three?) letters of LGBTQI count? -But you still want all of their $subs and votes as 'useful idiots'?

- Since you are the forum's prominent NSW Green (close associate of Shoebridge and Lee Rhiannon) and union member - not to mention ardent supporter of the CFMEU and AWU.

Having been involved, albeit temporarily in assisting PS managers in sorting out some practical workplace solutions for transgenders I can only say that the inconvenience and suffering of the male -> female (trans) especially, were unnecessarily made worse by the intransigence of union reps who were toeing the feminist line.

Yes Paul, can you tell us about all those feminists in the Greens party ranting and raving about transgender men? Are there even that many transgender people out there to be concerned about?

Actually, I sincerely doubt many feminists out there give much thought about transgender issues at all.
It seems it is mainly OTB, Roscop and ttbn who are most concerned about what other men do with their genitals. Are you guys giving the idea some serious thought then?

Suseonline,

How very dismissive of you and your comrade Paul1405.

Neither of you would be interested then, but for the benefit of others:

"transgender
denoting or relating to a person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender."[dictionary]

<Family Court Chief Justice calls for rethink on how High Court handles cases involving transgender children
Four Corners By Mark Bannerman>
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-17/chief-justice-calls-for-rethink-on-transgender-childrens-cases/5894698

and from same link,

<Chief Justice Bryant.

She said that even before any High Court ruling on the issue, other steps could be taken to help transgender children access treatment.

"I am confident that we can put in place a process which will be easily manageable and will not be expensive for parties to be able to come to court and get a decision about capacity to consent," she said.

In a recent New Zealand study, 1.2 per cent of secondary schools students identified as transgender.

If these numbers were reflected in Australia, it would mean almost 18,000 Australian students.>

Onthebeach, please don't pretend you give a flying fact about transgender children, or adults for that matter.
Why the pretense?

Roscop,

Aren't you the slow one! I wasn't thinking about penguins. I was referring to your obsession with sex-change. Seriously, what healthy male would be making enquiries about the processes involved in sex change! Who would care, apart from someone wanting the sex change! Who would think that any poster on OLO would know or care about such a daft question. It's no joke, you know. Some people are born with physce and physicality out of kilter, and they are much happier when they have the change. And, it's all their business, not the concern of some of idle nosy-parker with nothing better on his mind. As I said, if you feel the need, consult an appropriate surgeon, but try counselling first.

Beach, you were going so well, until you said "ardent supporter of the AWU" I am no such thing!

Absolutely correct Suse, that's all we talk about at Greens meetings. Last meeting I attended the main topic of conversation was the 'WestConnx' motorway which will see the M4 and M5 tollways disgorging 1000's of cars etc a day onto already crowded inner city roads, no plan for real public transport improvements in inner Sydney, with both bus and rail stretched to the limit, we want the city light rail being built to service parts of the eastern subs to incorporate a light rail line to Greens Square with an integrated bus rail interchange, servicing the huge numbers of people intended as part of the urban renewal that will see over 100,000 added to the area. This is supported by Clover Moore and the city council, but the Baird government is not listening yet.
Forget I posted the above, no the subject quickly turned to transgender men and if the 'WestConnex' was going to include a lane for them, 3 hours later we all packed up and went home!

Suse, 'Monty Python' and Stan wants to be called Loretta and have babies, sums up the whole thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgp9MPLEAqA

The people are real, as is their suffering. There wouldn't be one hundred new referrals to the Royal Children's Hospital in Melbourne alone if those children weren't requiring specialised help. From the ABC Four Corners - URL provided earlier,

<The Royal Children's Hospital in Melbourne has had 100 new referrals this year.

Isabelle is one of the children being treated at the hospital and she told Four Corners that without support and access to treatment, she would have been deeply unhappy.

"If you don't be yourself, you're going to be miserable for your whole life," she said.>

Beyond Blue,
http://tinyurl.com/beyond-blue-trans

This is a circumstance where the Australian public and workers are accepting and would see and accept the person in the workplace. However the cynical politics, political correctness and double standards of feminists (and unions) as exemplified Germaine Greer have been troublemaking for years.

"it’s the culmination of a PC culture that may be beginning to implode"
http://nypost.com/2015/10/26/theres-a-feminist-civil-war-brewing-over-caitlyn-jenner/

This is an interesting argument:

"I am a woman and my gender and femininity is deeply rooted in my body. My femininity is not something that can be colonized, manipulated, or stolen.

My femaleness has been given to me and I could not give it to the opposite gender, even if I wanted to.

This, perhaps, is the deep suffering at the root of being a transgender person, to desire something that is impossible. To have a thirst that can never truly be quenched. I ache for people who struggle with this. No one deserves to feel this kind of pain, or the abuse and mockery that goes along with it.

But I cannot lie and tell people they are what they are not, simply because it is what they desire to be true.

Compassion is not compassion without truth."

Taken from http://www.patheos.com/blogs/pursuedbytruth

I reckon that Greer, who has declared that a 'hairy, smelly vagina' is the essence of women is just a human headline who wants to get back into the limelight.

Also that she needs to get advice from her doctor on the basics.

She does exhibit the double standards and whacky thoughts of the gurus of feminism. She made heaps of dough out of the women she talks down to and secretly despises though.

otb,

"Also that she needs to get advice from her doctor on the basics."

Are you suggesting that GG might have a yeast infection?

Roscop,

Maybe Greer has a hygiene problem. First, she needs advice on that hair she imagines is growing internally (hairy vag, she says).

Seriously though, how do these flakey human headlines become newsworthy?

She only had one book in her and that was one long whinge.

She is the shock-jock of whinging, whining, self-entitled, educated, white middle class women, who were born entitled princesses anyhow!

False.
A man becomes a woman when he gives birth.

Armchair Critic,
Totally agree, or when their ovaries are capable of conceiving a child.

"A man becomes a woman when he gives birth", does a woman have to give birth to prove her femininity? A woman who never gives birth is (s)he a man?

Fr Joe you need to watch this YouTube it explains it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgp9MPLEAqA

The jury is out on a biological basis for transgenderism.

There are social costs in doing anything outside of 'Live and let live'.

Where there needs to be caution as most would agree, is in allowing the 'Progressive' social engineers and activists to set the policy agenda and browbeat doctors and psychiatrists.

It is the human headline Greer and feminists who are *bleep* stirring as usual. The feckless media are helping out with their usual dumb-assed sensationalism.

Greer does demonstrate the uninformed, unscientific, unreliable BS that is 'Patriarchy' paradigm, but all do know that already, right? So why do smiling frauds like Turnbull toe the feminist line? Hold on, that question is already answered.

Sure makes one wonder how long it will be before the cynical, gutless wonders we have on both sides of the Parliament realise that the prime reasons why governments are being tipped out of office are just that, their spinelessness and cynicism, and wastage of taxpayers' $$ of course.

So Paul it is symbolic that a man can marry other man and have symbolic babies. So their sex is symbolic.

"The jury is out on a biological basis for transgenderism." And who is the jury, Beach, 12 good men.

"as most would agree" evoking the majority, without substance. I think the majority don't give a rats for transgenderism as you call it. Pose the question:

What is YOUR opinion of transgenderism? I doubt the majority would reply;

I don't want those progressive social engineers and activists to set the policy agenda on transgenderism. and browbeat doctors and psychiatrists.

They are more likely to reply, WHAT!

I think this whole thing is a beat up to attack progressive thinking, and does not rate in the top 100 issues of the day.

As for Greer, I don't have much time for her, anyway.

Fr Joe,

My line on all the issue is rather simple to understand. Sex between consenting adults is none of my business, why do you make it your business?

You like to throw questions at me, here is on for you. What is your attitude towards masturbation? A common sexual practice of heterosexuals, including Christians, both male and female. Its my understanding that it is condemned by the Catholic Church. Catholic doctrine on the subject.

"Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action" (CCC# 2352). Whatever the motive, solitary sex in itself contradicts the meaning of human sexuality, which is meant by God to be shared between a man and a woman in marriage."

Hi Paul,

You put your finger on a crucial issue, that should be stressed on any person, male, female, male/female or female/male or anything in between - if one loses one's sexual organs, does one lose forever the ability to achieve any sort of orgasm ?

Sounds like one hell of a sacrifice :(

Such a drastic action would probably make masturbation moot. If you are contemplating such an operation, Paul, I would strongly advise you to get in as much of it as you can now. As you are probably aware, it doesn't make you go blind (although I do seem to be losing some vision over the years, but that might be just ageing) and it is a form of sex with the one you love most. There are no life-changing consequences like pregnancy either, and nobody gets hurt.

Why do religions so often seek to stop us seeking pleasure ? On the other hand, there seems to be no mention of prohibiting it in the Koran, although there are plenty of mentions of other pleasurable activities such as amputations, stonings, enslavements and burnings, so it may not be all boring gloom on those long, pitch-black Muslim nights :)

Good luck !

Joe

Throw the masturbation question at the religious and they duck for cover. I would think it a common practice among the celibate clergy in particular, from the Pope down to the local kiddy fiddler!
Again, another sexual practice I see as none of my business, and does not harm others, so I'm not in favor of any laws to ban it, as if you could.

Paul1405,
In case you didn't get it, when I said 'A man becomes a woman when he gives birth' I was being ridiculous to point out the complete stupidity of the question.

You took it seriously.
Does a woman have to give birth to prove her femininity?
A woman who never gives birth is (s)he a man?

Really??

I think you've all been brainwashed into believing this pc crap and that you all must have the same stuff between your ears just for asking.

A person IS whatever the hell they are born as unless they are a hermaphrodite in which case they are both.

A person may identify with the opposite sex and prefer to be known as a member of the opposite sex and get bits chopped off and added and take drugs to try to be more like the opposite sex but they are always going to be whatever the hell they were born as and what their DNA says they are.

Even considering an alternative explanation is a surrender to logic and entertaining absurdity and madness.

And by the way are you also ignorant of the Vatican sex scandals?
How they trawl around outside the Vatican looking for young boys to take back and molest?
Haven't you seen the young children jumping out of past Popes birthday cakes?
The Pope just may be the local kiddy fiddler.

Obama tells School- 30 Days to Let Transgender Boy into Girls' Locker Room or Lose Funding & Be Sued

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Po4Vl_Nbuk

Watch the rush of 15 year old boys claiming on hormone treatment waiting sex change so they can shower with the girls at school.

Well, the girls are already baring all with lesbian students and teachers present. Lesbian erotica, one would have thought.

That is OK, laudable, evolved(sic), as far as the feminists are concerned.

The political correctness of the feminists is tying them in knots.