Roscop,

"Actually the quote "If civilization had been left in female hands, we would still be living in grass huts."...are words that come from the mouth of a woman...Professor Camille Paglia...so stick that one up your jumpers"

Yes, I know....from her book "Sexual Personae" - which sits about ten feet from me in my bookshelf...but it's a rather largish book, so I hope you don't mind if I decline to stick it up my jumper.

Notwithstanding that men couldn't have done it all by themselves without women in the breech, no-one is denying the kinds of Apollonian glory that males have achieved in their swerve away from nature - it's phenomenal!

However, that doesn't detract from the latent aggressive tendencies of the species - and particularly the male of the species. Truth is that as adept as the male is at constructing "civilisation", he is equally adept at knocking it down.

Which brings us to otb's contribution from his last post:

"Each year, for example, more Australian males (8.7%) will experienced violence than Australian females (5.3%)."

As Loudmouth intimated, the majority of that 8.7% of Australian males experiencing violence will have been the victims of a male. Same goes for the 5.3% of female victims.

No-one thinks the majority of men commit this violence - or that male victims of violence shouldn't be recognised and given the same attention as female victims.

However, the elephant in this room on OLO appears to be that the male of the species is far more physically aggressive than the female - which shows up time and time again in statistics.

My take is that it's a genetic and instinctive trait in human beings, where that type of aggression was paramount in protecting the tribe from attack. In the modern world where things are arranged in a more civilised fashion, only strong social skills resting on respectful interaction can subjugate the tendency to solve disagreement with violent force.

JF Aus,

You ask:

'Loudmouth are you in favour of women running off with another man and telling lies in restricted divorce court proceedings and getting the kids?'

No.

'Do you think men have no right to complain or receive justice in such circumstances?'

I get confused with double negatives, but No/Yes, they should, and do, have the right etc.

And 'another life' means just that - move to Queensland and start a new life, find a new job, find a new partner if possible. [I don't know why Queensland, but maybe because it's a long way from here in South Australia].

Strange how this topic morphs into others. Surely nobody is trying to justify DV ?

Joe

JF Aus, you are right, I should have said 'some' males on this forum, and not all.
A few questions for you now.

Why are you bringing the family courts and divorce into this thread?
Are you suggesting it is the court's fault that some men kill or bash their ex-partners and/or children?

Why not blame the men who do these crimes?
If the courts rule in favour of the man to keep his kids following divorce etc, is it then ok for the mother to commit DV on them?

Suicide is never anyone's fault but the one doing it to themselves...and they leave a lifetime of mental health problems for their friends and relatives.

RObert "Those opposed to practical support for male victims of DV regardless of the gender of the perpetrator seem to live in denial of the evidence "

Who is opposed to this? Anyone?
All DV victims need support, regardless of gender.

Yes, JF Aus....

From the three fathers I know whose marriages broke down and who initially found themselves separated from their children.

1. After first having extreme trouble with his drug-addicted partner, he was awarded sole custody of both his infant children - and has provided for them wonderfully. These children do not see their mother as she is considered extremely unstable.

2. This fellow had his three children return to him when two were in their early teens and another under ten. Al three continue to live with their dad.

3. This man hasn't seen his children for most of their childhood - his wife flouted most of her orders and skipped interstate before eventually returning. He has since divorced her and remarried to a wonderful woman who supports him wholeheartedly and whom he loves very much. He has retrained and has carved out a successful new career and is happy in his new life. The pain of losing his children is still with him, however, he decided that his life was worth more than resentment and pain and he has embraced the possibilities eagerly....and found happiness where once he thought that would be impossible.

None of these men sought to commit violence on their partners in retaliation for perceived wrongs - and would condemn anyone for doing so.

@Loudmouth,
Joe,

From your point of view, from what you have experienced or observed, you think the topic "morphs into others".
From my point of view a fundamental problem with DV occurrence and law is that the system and the law does not have time to hear the other point of view.

Do tell, Joe, do you think moving on to Queensland or somewhere can remove the psycological trauma and stress from losing your wife and your children? Do you think no argument occurs when someone else arrives on the scene to break up established partners?

Have you ever owned a dog Joe? Losing your children is like losing 10 dogs, if you can possibly know what I mean.

If a court can invoke law to cover the long term impact and psychological consequences of rape then similar should be possible for stealing/misappropriation of children. Plus extra penalty for impact on the children.

Some ex-partners are known to continue to be violent psychologically even years later, to get back at their ex. Children are used as the weapon.

Going to Queensland is not a solution, nor is having a new partner/wife as I have had for the past 10 years.

Children are gone forever, brainwshed, father defamed albeit unjustifiably.

Expand your thinking, Joe. Partners are even known to fire guns and kill others and themselves because a partner and a court have taken their kids.

Courts need proper resources to provide decent, proper justice.