Loudmouth,

My point being is that we don't know.

And how we on this little blue dot we came to be cognizant of ourselves in the vastness of the universe and our ignorance.

runner and other believers fill the void of knowledge with their faith...so in the end they become "sure" that they know how it all began....based not on their rationality, but resting on their faith.

That of course is fine...except that people who approach the subject as runner does, feel their assuredness gives them carte blanche to abuse anyone who doesn't garner their comfort and assuredness from a faith-based perception of a metaphysical entity.

Hi poirot,

I suppose the point is that some of us TRY to know, a never-ending quest. Karl Popper resolves it all somewhat by suggesting that we all have both a practical, 'scientific' sense of how things work, but we - all of us - have faith in something, and the two never meet - and shouldn't be expected to: one is searching for answers to the observable, the other is content with wallowing in the magic of the unobservable [my gloss].

Here's a brilliant suggestion from Huntington for all of us to think about:

'The great political ideologies of the twentieth century include liberalism socialism, anarchism, corporatism, Marxism, communism, social democracy, conservatism, nationalism, fascism, and Christian democracy.

'They all share one thing in common: they are products of western civilization. No other civilization has generated significant political ideology. The West, however, has never generated a major religion.

'The great religions of the world are all products of non-Western civilizations and, in most cases, pre-date Western civilization. As the world moves out of its Western phase, the ideologies which typified late Western civilization decline, and their place is taken by religions and other culturally based forms of identity and commitment.' [Clash of Civilizations, pp. 53-54]

Of course, that was twenty years ago. He was no fool.

Cheers,

Joe

' runner and other believers fill the void of knowledge with their faith...so in the end they become "sure" that they know how it all began....based not on their rationality, but resting on their faith.'

You are right Poirot. At the end of the day it is faith based on reasoning (ie Creation = Creator , Design = Designer etc). Obviously by faith we (believers) believe God is self existant just like by faith the evolutionist crew believe order came from chaos, laws come from nature rather than a Lawgiver). Evolutionist who think must walk around all day saying to themselves, what I see can't be true, can't be true. No wonder they swallow the gw religion which demands faith in unseen and then called 'science'.

AJ,

"“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16:18)

That’s just Jesus telling Paul to build the Church upon Him (i.e. the “rock”). Jesus isn’t undoing anything or going back on his words in the Matthew verse that has been quoted so many times on this thread now. Nor did Peter have greater authority over Jesus, as you suggest."

It was Simon whose name was changed, not Paul. (sorry, couldn't resist)!

Oh no! I've been exposed!

runner,

"' runner and other believers fill the void of knowledge with their faith...so in the end they become "sure" that they know how it all began....based not on their rationality, but resting on their faith.'

You are right Poirot. At the end of the day it is faith based on reasoning..."

To tell you the truth, I kind of envy your faith.

Haven't been able to manage it myself....