It's one thing for the likes of SM and company to bang their drums triumphantly on a forum such as this, telling us how dastardly clever and altruistic is this govt...(while apparently having no view at all on the cruelties taking place in the camps)

However, these actions have consequences which reach far beyond the insular bravado bandied about on forums.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australiaindonesia-relationship-at-a-key-juncture-dialogue-needed-on-boats-says-marty-natalegawa-20150629-gi0e90

"Australia's relationship with Indonesia appears to be at its lowest point, says Indonesia's former foreign minister Marty Natalegawa, who suspects there is no private communication between the two countries.

During an interview with Sky's David Speers to be aired on Monday, Dr Natalegawa said "we are at a key juncture" in Indonesia-Australia relations.

He said he believes there is also no private communications occurring between the two governments, which would represent an unprecedented collapse in relations.

"I believe we are at a key juncture just now in Indonesia-Australia relations," Dr Natalegawa said."

"We have in the past difficult moments when our relations are low but even then I believed that there was always a sense of communications going, actually from my experience in the past whenever we had a crisis communication intensified.

"I'm not sure whether that sort of communication is going on at the moment, whether public or private."

So much for Abbott's bleatings regarding "more Jakarta and less Geneva".

"Indonesia's former foreign minister Marty Natalegawa, who suspects there is no private communication between the two countries"

The Foreign Minister "suspects"?!

Honestly, what self respecting Foreign Minister would be foolish enough to say that he didn't even know what his own government was up to?

Any Australian who lends credence to the shabby and obvious negotiation tactics (emotional blackmail too!) without pointing out that it is just that, a negotiation tactic and that this Indonesian foreign minister isn't the most reliable of informants, is only fooling himself.

The hand is out, what do they expect this time?

Doubtless it would be more of the freeby defence planes, patrol boats and $$ that they got used to under Labor. See here,

<Kevin Rudd set to give planes and boats to Indonesia in visit this week
June 30, 2013

Kevin Rudd will take a kitbag of goodies to Indonesia this week as he seeks more help from that county to curb the boat flow.

The secondhand C-130 Hercules planes that Indonesia was going to buy at “mates rates” will now be a gift, and there will be patrol boats (customs not naval) thrown in. There could also be developmental aid.

The whole package could cost hundreds of millions of dollars.

The decision to make a gift of the planes and provide the boats was taken before last week’s leadership change, in preparation for Julia Gillard making this trip...>
http://theconversation.com/kevin-rudd-set-to-give-planes-and-boats-to-indonesia-in-visit-this-week-15674

Labor's Rudd and Gillard had found out that trashing John Howard's successful Pacific Solution had had immediate negative consequences. The harm to the Australian taxpayer was to be long-lived.

There are very short memories around. However the Indonesians have a flawless memory of the bounty to be had from embarrassing Australia's Labor(plus Greens sidekicks) governments.

Poirot is right about these poor people who want to come to Australia. This country is a big country with plenty of room for everybody including the Islimic people to. If you welcome the Islimic people they will not want to attack for any reason. It's because they are always been perscetuted themselves by western armys they learn to fight them back. Welcome them here and there will be no trouble, this is a huge country with much bush and land for everyone. These people in the boats need the Australia to help them that's all they need, we have all this room to spear! I think Idonesian people are right to blame Australia to pay money to these boat people where welcome them should be done instead.

misanthrope, do you think the 'Islimic' people you are happy to welcome into the great big country will all agree to go live out in the desert?

How about you put up your hand to have couple of them live with you, at your expense... put your money where your mouth is, lead by example.

Throughout this whole discussion I have seen certain posters quoting people who 'suspect things are happening', or 'think there is a possibility' or assume that since there is no news, that is proof enough a completely different story is happening.

Essentially these same regular posters are saying, I can't say for certain so I'll quote other people who are also guessing and making unfounded assumptions as proof this government's turn back the boats policy is failing.

We've got accusations of cruelties in the camps, sinking boats, illegal tow backs, possible upset Indonesian bureaucrats, outrage at the UN... and then the reality... the boats are not succeeding in reaching our shores. Gosh that has to be frustrating for those who said Abbott couldn't do it, he only had a three word slogan.

Like it or not, the reality is, the majority of Australians do not want scores of economic immigrants (and boat loads of unskilled uneducated Muslims) forcing themselves into our country. Even people who do not like the Coalition are quietly pleased the boats have stopped arriving on our shores.

CH,

"We've got accusations of cruelties in the camps..."

It doesn't take an Einstein to work out that if the the two majors rush through legislation allowing for a two year jail sentence to any professional who pipes up on abuse in these camps - and then vote down an amendment for mandatory reporting of abuse in these places...that something is reeking in the camps.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-30/detention-centre-workers-face-imprisonment-for-whistleblowing/6584392

""It effectively turns the Department of Immigration into a secret security organisation with police powers," he said.

"And what it does is [it] will prevent professional groups, international human rights bodies, doctors, counsellors, teachers, anyone who's working in immigration detention centres who raises concerns about the treatment of asylum seekers and conditions in those centres, if they don't have the authorisation of the department to reveal that information to the media or any other person or organisation then they can go to jail for up to two years, so it will have a chilling effect."

The act was passed with bipartisan support, with only the Greens opposing it."

Let me just say that I find it mind-boggling that members of our parliament (most of whom have children themselves) could vote in favour of cloaking the abuse of minors.

Breathtaking!