Banjo Paterson,

I have mixed feelings about euthanasia and assisted suicide, mainly that people can be made to feel they are a burden or useless and that they could be given incentives to kill themselves prematurely.

I am not just referring to relatives, carers, hospitals and son on who want to be relieved of the problems of lengthy and difficult care.

Where government is involved and it always is directly or indirectly, it is highly likely that a future government might justify reduction in budget for aged care, palliative care and so on for the aged or those suffering late stages of terminal illness or even mental conditions, on the basis that there is an alternative - earlier death.

Having witnessed medical staff in a hospital deal with an elderly patient with a treatable cancer differently (slack care, withdrawal of care) when that condition was diagnosed, and having also witnessed the case of another man with terminal illness who was put on a bus by a religious care organisation and sent to his elderly sister for care, I am sure that assisted suicide could be taken advantage of by the clever unethical who are about.

On the other hand I have had close relatives who lingered, suffering pain and humiliation, independent people who pleaded for some control in their final months/years.

Where I was very interested in the Swiss model is that it is not restricted to terminal illness. I give a bit of my time (sadly, not enough recently) to helping elders whose families forget them and who cannot do some things, for instance basic home and yard maintenance. Those with cruel conditions like rheumatoid arthritis would appreciate the Swiss policy. Few might use it, but it would be a load off their suffering knowing there was that option available.

BTT

o sung wu,

I posted this on another thread, however it is relevant to this thread as well. Given your professional background it should be interesting and might even give you some pointers to test with your colleagues.

http://epsilennyt.com/NYTContent/Test/Template33/Images/threadconvergorgancrime.pdf

Hi BANJO PATERSON...

Another of your thoroughly contemplative assessments, concerning this awkward topic of 'state assisted suicide' or euthanasia ? A discussion I generally don't enter into, or speak about, as my dear first wife, committed suicide, March 12 of 2014.

I fully appreciate the views of those people who support euthanasia. All of whom have had to witness extraordinary levels of suffering, from some awful terminal illness ? With absolutely no expectation of remission or recovery, with an outlook obscured by nothing but pain and suffering ?

Though proven expects in many fields, the Swiss nevertheless tend to characterise any problem, whether it's a health issue, or aviation as an example, with an inordinately glacial and analytical approach, without any cognizance of the human constituent concerned ? For this reason, I'm sure it will either be the Swiss, Austrian or German nations, that will lead the world in developing more sophisticated means of 'state assisted suicide' ?

G'day there ONTHEBEACH...

Thank you very much for that excellent Link you kindly sent ! Indeed a lot of useful material was contained therein, and even though I was well down the law-enforcement echelon, than those who were part of framing that excellent document. Nevertheless I firmly believe much of what they stated, is both valid moreover absolutely correct.

That section that dealt with the illicit activities of North Korea, with their 'state sponsored terrorism', which is partly funded by their heroin exportation to selected countries in the western world. You may recall the infamous 'Pong So' incident, a North Korean registered vessel that attempted to import a huge quantity (in excess of 100kgs) of No 4 heroin into Oz ? When the whole thing came to a head, they needed the assistance of the SAS, to force the Master of that vessel to turn about, and surrender his ship to the AFP in Sydney harbour ?

A very fine result was achieved, by the combined efforts of the AFP, VICPOL & NSWPOL, and not to forget the famous Australian SAS ! This is why ONTHEBEACH, why I've been 'bleating' so loud, for so long, trying to convince those of the 'Left' to recognise that we're ALREADY at war ?

And we're losing that war well and truly, because our politicians are not giving sufficiently enough attention, to the very real, but thus- far 'covert' threat, that Islamic groups like ISIS and others pose, to ours and other ill-prepared western nations ?

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Dear onthbeach,

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« I have mixed feelings about euthanasia and assisted suicide, mainly that people can be made to feel they are a burden or useless and that they could be given incentives to kill themselves prematurely. »

I agree, onthebeach, but, when all is said and done, the fact remains that we all have the right to choose whether to live or die. Pain and suffering should be avoided whichever one we choose.
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« Where government is involved and it always is directly or indirectly, it is highly likely that a future government might justify reduction in budget for aged care, palliative care and so on for the aged or those suffering late stages of terminal illness or even mental conditions, on the basis that there is an alternative - earlier death. »

You’re right, onthebeach, governments do that sort of thing: “Old people should hurry up and die”, says Japan deputy leader:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/9817753/Old-people-should-hurry-up-and-die-says-Japan-deputy-leader.html

“Germany 'exporting' old and sick to foreign care homes”:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/26/german-elderly-foreign-care-homes?CMP=EMCNEWEML1355

It’s up to us, the people, to make sure the government does what we want - and to pay the extra cost. The government is not the problem. It’s us, the people, that’s the problem. If we truly want it, we can have it.
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« I am sure that assisted suicide could be taken advantage of by the clever unethical who are about. »

Naturally there is a need for a certain number of safeguards to protect the vulnerable from the malevolent influence of ill-intentioned persons in their entourage. Just as there should be psychological, medical and social assistance for those who are in need of them. It is more than likely that many of those who see no issue to their problems, apart from ending their lives, may change their minds on receiving competent, on-going assistance from somebody who cares.

The Swiss now have over 30 years of experience practicing “assisted suicide”. A referendum in the Canton of Zurich in 2011 confirmed overwhelming support for the practice.
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Please allow me to add, onthebeach, that I admire your humanity.

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Dear o sung wu,

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I am sorry to hear of your personal loss. Please forgive me for having touched on such a delicate subject on this thread.
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« Though proven experts in many fields, the Swiss nevertheless tend to characterise any problem, whether it's a health issue, or aviation as an example, with an inordinately glacial and analytical approach, without any cognizance of the human constituent concerned. »

You could be right there, o sung wu, I guess each culture does have its particular characteristics.

It is, nevertheless, interesting to note that the relevant legislation was passed in 1937 but it was not until the 1980s that it was implemented by setting up assisted suicide agencies which are now thriving.

Although it appears that the current interpretation of the law does not reflect the original intent of the legislator.

According to a Bio Edge article entitled Switzerland’s “peculiar institution” by Michael Cook, 1 June 2013:

« Article 115 of the 1937 Swiss Penal Code states that: “Every person who, for selfish reasons, incites or assists someone to commit suicide, shall be sentenced to imprisonment of up to five years or a fine.” It was very far from the minds of the legislators of the time to promote assisted suicide. They seem to have had in mind situations like Goethe’s novel, The Sorrows of Young Werther -- “romantic stories about people committing suicide in defence of their own, or their family’s honour, and about suicides committed by rejected lovers.»

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