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The Forum > General Discussion > 'No' to the Death Penalty - Then What ?

'No' to the Death Penalty - Then What ?

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As the dust settles after the unfortunate spectacle of Messrs CHAN & SUKUMARAN'S execution, we're left with that ineradicable question of what other means or options do we have of dispensing justice ?

In FOXY'S previous Topic, much was made of 'deterrence', or the lack thereof ? Some supported the death penalty, saying the two perpetrators should've been done away with thus rendering society a bit safer from their ugly trade ?

We no longer have Capital Punishment embodied within legislation here in Australia. So had CHAN & SUKUMARAN been returned here for punishment (one remedy I'd heard proposed to the Indonesians?), what period of imprisonment should they've received ? Australia, has a very unfortunate record for being unduly lenient and indulgent by some standards, here in our region ?

Is that a fair summation of us do you think ? After all aren't we supposed to be the most sociologically advanced nation in our region ? I can't really say, though what about Singapore, still they have the death penalty ? I can speak quite definitively when I aver, most police believe that our judicial system is inordinately lenient ?

Are there any realistic options ,for a clever country like Australia ?
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 7 May 2015 1:36:23 PM
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Keeping people in prison is way too expensive for the ordinary tax payer - they sin but we, who are innocent, pay the price!

Far better is exile - send such criminals to some 3rd-world country (for an agreed fee to that country, in place of unconditional foreign-aid as is now and when possible out of the criminal's own assets), never to be allowed to return to Australia.

After all, this "clever" country does the same to refugees who did nothing wrong!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 7 May 2015 10:09:00 PM
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'evening to you YUYUTSU...

Believe it or not years ago I heard a state politician (NSW) suggest a form of exile as a way to reduce increased prisoner overcrowding ? Sending some of these (selected) ne'er do wells out to a very arid area of OZ with sufficient resources to sustain them with the express purpose of turning this parched dry land into something approaching useful ?

I would've thought without a mass of equipment, and knowhow it would be next to impossible, to do anything approaching positive, with such dry wasteland ? Thanks anyway YUYUTSU.
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 7 May 2015 10:23:13 PM
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Dear O Sung Wu,

I've come across an interesting article that
may be of interest. It's a discussion on -
"Time for prison reform across Australian
States." :

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2012/s3511023.htm

It's a good place to start.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 7 May 2015 11:07:53 PM
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Hi o sung wu,

Prevention is better than cure. The biggest cause of crime in our society is social inequality. Many criminals are born, born into disadvantage, they never have a chance from the start. Fortunately very few Australians ever face court on a criminal charge, and even fewer on a serious charge such as murder or drug smuggling. If your focus is on the upper end of crime then regardless of what is done the overall crime rate is not going to diminish to any great degree, while you have the social problems of poverty, lack of education, lack of employment, lack of opportunity etc.
A criminal is a criminal long before he commits a crime, that leads him or her to jail. The vast majority of us do not commit crime because we fear the retribution of society, no that is not the case, we feel its not the right thing for us to do and we have no need to do it.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 8 May 2015 7:16:13 AM
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It is an easy way out to blame the government and society for lack of success in life, for drug habits and for criminal behaviour.

We all make choices every day. It is up to us. There is no need to live in squalor, soap is cheap, it is a welfare society and saying no to drugs should be a 'no-brainer'.

However it is true that some children cannot rely on their parents for care and example. Many children are fatherless. A sad story related to me by a friend years ago related to children who were punished by their feral parents for doing well in school. In that 'Shire' things have only got worse through the increasing availability of drugs.

Take children away from the harm they experience daily? Well, no to that too from hand-wringers who put their personal 'rights' ahead of the child.

Back to the OP, while I do not support the death penalty I cannot say that life without parole (LWOP) is any better. LWOP is worse. I accept that my reasons for supporting life that MEANS life for some crimes is that I do not want the mongrel (eg., that sob Martin Bryant, Port Arthur) to have an easy way out. That and the always stupid, impossible hope that the Milats would eventually relent to give police details, for instance burial sites, to put families at peace.

However, the anti-capital punishment push who say LWOP is the preferable option are often lying through their teeth, because they very, very likely wouldn't support LWOP either.

As well, they would support de-criminalisation of all drugs, notwithstanding the evidence that millions of victims will be created overnight. There are vulnerable people aplenty, examples being children and people going through distressing life experiences, including mental conditions such as depression.

It has to be made very plain to drug traffickers for example, that knowingly putting people at risk of serious harm or death (and as criminals of course they deny knowledge that drugs could cause harm) is intolerable. Yet in Australia they get off lightly, why?
Posted by onthebeach, Friday, 8 May 2015 10:19:57 AM
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