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Dear onthebeach,

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« There are drug traffickers and drug traffickers. There is a huge difference between those who plan to release commercial quantities of heroin or amphetamine (as examples) in Australia, and others who are moving marijuana.

It is about culpability. »
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I agree. I have no trouble with your notion of culpability. I understand that marijuana is even less harmful to human health than tobacco. It seems there are 10 countries in the world that either have already legalized marijuana/cannabis or are planning to do so:

http://www.cheatsheet.com/politics/10-countries-that-have-or-will-see-marijuana-legalization.html/?a=viewall

However, as previously indicated, I do not consider that even the worst type of drug traffickers, the most culpable, are solely responsible for the consummation of drugs. If there was no demand there would be no offer, no market and no traffic.

There is necessarily shared responsibility. Who? I suspect partly the consumers themselves, partly society (stress, mode and various psychological, sentimental, family, social, economic and environmental, pressures of all sorts).

But even if some of the addicts who get hooked on drugs end up as human wrecks, I don’t equate the crime of supplying them with their self-administered poison on the same level as particularly “atrocious crimes” of first degree murder as defined in my previous post. There is no intent to kill, even if the consumer dies of an overdose.

I do not consider that euthanasia (good death) should be applied to drug traffickers, even those “culpable persons” whom you mention.

Philosophers such as Socrates, Hobbes, Locke and Rousseau argued that harmonious human relations are contractual in nature, the "social contract".

There has to be an agreement on the fundamentals of something for the relationship to work. Attempting to Harm or kill the other partner is not part of the contract. If that happens the contract is broken and the other partner is free to retaliate. In democratic societies, retaliation is the monopoly of justice.

It seems there is fairly robust support for capital punishment (but I prefer euthanasia) in most democratic societies for particularly atrocious crimes

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Dear o sung wu,
 
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«  Nations that still practice Capital Punishment, have been seeking more humane, more painless protocols in order to put an offender to death, …  the United States is leading the field in this rather unorthodox search »
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That is not quite correct, o sung wu. Effective painless protocols have existed for more than 30 years, since the Suisse set up assisted suicide agencies in the 1980’s which are now thriving.

It is interesting to note that “suicide tourism” doubled in Switzerland in three years between 2009 and 20012. In total, 611 foreign citizens died between 2008 and 2012. All but four were assisted with their suicide at the Dignitas Clinic, which charges about $10,000 for the procedure, and the vast majority used sodium pentobarbital – the same drug used during executions in the US:

http://rt.com/news/181980-dignitas-assisted-suicide-switzerland/

It is not a technical problem. It is a political problem. It is the result of European hegemony in an attempt to impose its ethical standards, not just on the US, but on the whole world. The biggest stumbling block is, of course, China, which counts for over half the world’s executions.

The problem in the US since 2011, the year of the boycott of lethal drug supplies to the US by European pharmaceutical companies came into effect, is not only to obtain sodium pentobarbital but also to obtain the other ingredients of the protocol as well:

Read: “Pharmacist groups discourage members from supplying execution drugs”:

http://circanews.com/news/states-short-on-lethal-injection-drug

Read also: “America's Lethal Injection Drug Crisis Starts In Europe”:

 "Our political task is to push for an abolition of the death penalty, not facilitate its procedure," said Barba Lochbihler, chairwoman of the European Parliament's subcommittee on human rights.
 
"The lethal injection that they are using now in certain states has never been tested, verified, let alone been approved for executions," said Maya Foa of Reprieve, a London-based charity fighting the death penalty. "This amounts to using humans as guinea pigs. No doctor would ever do that."

Botched executions are mainly due to European hegemony.
 
 
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Banjo Paterson,

Thank you for your comprehensive reply.

It would be difficult to prove 'contributing fault' where minors are concerned. Also, in some areas - notably those re-jigged by feminist lawyers employed by government - there is no concession to nor acknowledge of contributing fault on the part of the victim. Conversely, law-abiding citizens duly licensed (with firearms licences) who are the unfortunate victims of theft are very closely scrutinised by police for possible ('contributory') charges and the penalties can be very severe indeed, including confiscation of expensive possessions.

Those examples are given to prove what I was alleging, that Australian law is very soft on the trafficking and dealing of 'hard' drugs, where custodial sentences might not even be awarded for commercial quantities. Yet authorities and the government are saying that Australia have a very serious, growing drug problem.

I agree that capital punishment is not acceptable in Australia.

On the other hand (and it isn't something you were arguing against), it is a bit much for supporters of the 'Bali nine' and other drug traffickers to place the fault on other countries for producing drugs and demanding strict enforcement and severe penalties (but not death apparently) where in Australia's backyard drug traffickers are given a smack on the wrist by courts.

There are limits on what Second and Third World countries can do and there are cultural considerations. What we might see as ideal isn't always practical for them for all sorts of reasons.

Hi there BANJO PATERSON...

I too would like to echo ONTHEBEACH'S appreciation, for your most comprehensive thread concerning the advances and the apparent international 'log-jams' affecting progress in humane and painless methods of capital punishment. I wasn't aware of what the Swiss were doing, in their own (clinical) advances, in assisted suicides ?

When you think about it Banjo, we're almost regressing in our search for extending our lives, at least for some it would seem, particularly those with terminal illness, and others who're are 'existing' on death row ? I was always under the impression, science and mankind were forever seeking ways to preserve life - yet on the other hand, our immensely clever Swiss are doing the opposite ? Trying to 'thin it out' as it were ? I'm speechless ? Thanks again Banjo.

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Dear onthebeach,

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« It would be difficult to prove 'contributing fault' where minors are concerned. »
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That’s true but I doubt that children aged under ten (the age of criminal responsibility in Australia) would be prime targets for drug dealers.

There might be a few potentially solvent drug consumers in the 10 to 14 age bracket (legally presumed “incapable of crime” unless proven otherwise). It’s possible that some may earn money acting as drug dealers’ lookouts or steal from their parents or obtain drugs by other means but, again, I doubt that this particular market segment has much potential for development for people in the drug business.

Of course, once over the age of 14 the presumption “incapable of crime” no longer applies so “contributing fault”, at least theoretically, becomes a possibility.

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Dear o sung wu,

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« When you think about it Banjo, we're almost regressing in our search for extending our lives, … I was always under the impression, science and mankind were forever seeking ways to preserve life - yet on the other hand, our immensely clever Swiss are doing the opposite... »

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As I see it, we are doing both, o sung wu. We are definitely extending our lives, thanks to scientific and economic development, though there is still much to be done in the underdeveloped countries.

At the same time, the individual continues to emerge in the developed countries, gaining in knowledge and autonomy, with greater awareness of the world in which he lives.

Today, he claims his individual rights, his “individual human rights”, those attributed to him by nature, the most fundamental of which is the right to life and death.

Unfortunately, society only recognizes life as an “individual human right”, not death. But life and death are two sides of the same coin. There can be no life without death and no death without life. The process of life and death is an evolutionary continuum. It is the process which is a fundamental right, not just one particular phase of the process.

According to the World Health Organisation, almost one million individuals commit suicide worldwide, each year - one death every 40 seconds. Many more attempt suicide (around 10-20 million) each year. Suicide is ranked as one of the three leading causes of death in the world among people aged 15-44.

We have been insensitive far too long to the pain and suffering of people wishing to lawfully exercise their right to life and death. They are left with no other choice but to have recourse, alone with their solitude and in a terrible state of despair, to the most barbaric, inhuman and expeditious methods in order to carry out their macabre enterprise.

Switzerland is the only country in the world that practices “full assisted suicide” and not just euthanasia for the terminally ill.

It is open to just about everyone.

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