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The Forum > General Discussion > Impending Execution of Messre CHAN & SUKUMARAN: Morally right, or Wrong ?

Impending Execution of Messre CHAN & SUKUMARAN: Morally right, or Wrong ?

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Onya OTB!
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 7 February 2015 7:06:18 AM
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onthebeach is right. Chan and Sukumaran are vicious ruthless criminals. AJ Philips is also right. Those who make the money make the rules.

At one time the British government got 1/7 of their income from the opium trade. When the Chinese tried to stop that trade the British carried on the Opium Wars against China. The First Opium War was 1839–1842. The Second Opium War was 1856–1860. As a result Hong Kong became a British territory.

My grandfather admired Queen Victoria. Maybe he also admired the British martial prowess. Tony Abbott apparently might even like to return to those days.

If Chan and Sukumaran had risked their lives in fighting for the right to carry on the opium trade they might have received honours from a grateful nation. If Chan and Sukumaran had inherited several billion dollars they might be blighting many lives with a chain of casinos and be granted a state funeral like Kerry Packer.

As it is they are vicious, ruthless criminals who will probably be executed.
Posted by david f, Saturday, 7 February 2015 7:24:05 AM
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david f>> it is reasonable to assume that no prisoner feels the same before and after he or she is apprehended and sentenced.<<

Except the recidivists David.
Posted by sonofgloin, Saturday, 7 February 2015 8:42:42 AM
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Very well put, david f.

I see nothing in onthebeach's last response that contradicts anything that others have said in this thread over the last day or so.

onthebeach,

Yes, deliberately, wittingly, willingly, knowing, freely, consciously, purposely, calculatingly, voluntarily. We get it. But there's more to it than that.

As for the often-forgotten victims of crime, I have no idea what relevance they have here. Questioning the appropriateness or constructiveness of executing criminals, or the inconsistencies in the application of the death penalty (since the ideal of punishment fitting the extent of the harm caused has been raised here somewhere) doesn't necessitate forgetting victims.

There are far more constructive methods of addressing the needs of victims than more punitive sentencing too. It amazes me that those who show or feign concern for victims (to push for harsher sentencing) never seem to address the need for greater ownership over one's own conflicts, and naively think that harsher sentencing will provide victims with a greater sense of restoration.
Posted by AJ Philips, Saturday, 7 February 2015 8:47:33 AM
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Hi there DAVID F.

I appreciate your delineation between morality and legality and of course you're right. Being the ultimate pragmatist that I am, I do not consider anything that Mr PACKER does, as anywhere near to the criminal dimensions of CHAN and SUKUMARAN. As I've indicated earlier, I've not dealt with either of these two slugs, however a mate of mine has, and his animated descriptions of SUKUMARAN, should best be consigned, to the back bar of an inner city pub I know !

He further exclaimed how he wished he had the opportunity to see the fear in SUKUMARAN'S eyes, seconds before he's dispatched on his way to ultimate rehabilitation ! SUKUMARAN was an individual who enjoyed propagating real fear into the hearts and minds of those who might seek to oppose him. Unfortunately today, we no longer have a police 'force', it's all about providing a nice 'service', with 'customer service and delivery' set high on the executive and Ministerial agenda ?

And that's all very nice, and I thoroughly endorse such an ethos. Without public co-operation, you get nowhere ? However, I'm also a great believer of the hitherto, successful practice of, an 'iron fist' in the velvet glove approach with the slugs of our society. I suppose most who would know me might accept my perspective, being a former foundation member of the now disbanded, but highly effective, TRG ? A dedicated police squad who did generate some real fear into the minds of street thugs and standover men ! Formed after the disastrous, Motor Cycle Race Riots, at Bathurst, 30 odd years ago.

You never know, had SUKUMARAN and his kind, met up with members of the old TRG, his fortunes might not look as bleak as they do now ?

As always DAVID F, I find that your steady perspectives, do act as an effective 'brake' when some of my threads end up dripping with vengeance and malice. I suspect that is precisely the sort of baggage a 75 year old should not dwell upon in the dwindling hours of one's life.
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 7 February 2015 11:51:55 AM
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'evening to you ONTHEBEACH...

Your most recent thread is spot on. Everything you've stated therein is correct. I too share your contemptuousness for Capital Punishment, nevertheless on this occasion it would now appear these two are about to suffer the consequences for their crime. I have absolutely no sympathy nor compassion for either, it's a case of, all their chickens have come home to roost.

That particular roost being the Firing Squad, and so be it. It's the prevailing law in Indonesia, and despite our collective repugnance for the Death Penalty per se, nevertheless it's about to be enacted, and enacted for these two, before the end of February according to the ABC Radio National, news this morning.

Beware, any and all you potential drug runners, if you're caught in most SE Asian countries, you'll suffer a similar fate to, Messrs CHAN and SUKUMARAN !
Posted by o sung wu, Saturday, 7 February 2015 7:49:48 PM
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