Hi there FOXY...

It would seem this topic of yours has evolved to a certain extent ? Speaking of the terrible crimes of WW11 occasioned by both Hitler and Stalin, and your hope that we all, all mankind learns from that era ?

We haven't learnt, in fact we'll probably never learn, which only goes to prove how damn stupid we all are, to continue to ignore the mistakes of the past, over and over again ?

I was looking at one of the many links furnished herein by JAY of MELBOURNE concerning the Holocaust and while reading some of the comments therein.....? Well it really amazed me, moreover troubled me by the apparent lack of intellect displayed by some, making those comments ?

I tend to browse when given an all encompassing Site such as this, and (again) I was reading (completely unrelated to the Holocaust) about a film titled 'American Sniper' and the many comments attached thereto ? I'm totally apprehensive for our future, when I read some of the comments people actually consign to print ? If that's their standard of thinking and maturity, 'well look out' we're in for a rough ride ? Have we learnt nothing in this age of electronic access, to masses of information, and historical fact ?

Dear O Sung Wu,

Yes - this topic has certainly digressed as topics
tend to do on this forum. Someone brings up another
issue and we all tend to respond to it. I've got
to admit though that I am pleased (and grateful)
that people tend to respond to my discussions at
all.

As for learning from history? It was George Santayana
who wrote - "Those who cannot learn from history
are doomed to repeat it."

I like what an American lawyer David E. Springer said
when he expressed his concern. He felt a duty as a
lawyer to address shortcomings in the American legal
system. Mr Springer stated:

"At all times, vigilance is the price of liberty.
We must remain vigilant because while it might be us
today, it will be some other group down the road 20 years
from now. The measure of our society over history is
our fidelity to our principles. We must remind our
government and our people to remain faithful to those
principles or otherwise our society, like so many in the
past, will be swept on the ash heap of history."

Foxy, Was it a case with Stalin and the allies, my enemies enemy, is my friend.

Did not Roosevelt say to Churchill "I think I can work with Uncle Joe (Stalin)," Either Roosevelt was a complete naive fool, and he was not that, or he was prepared to forget about all the monstrous acts of Stalin and his regime, simply to further Americas modern
geopolitical interests, which were well in place long before 1945.
Yes, when you start a discussion you never know up what alley it will head. In this case Australia Day to Aboriginals to genocide to The Holocaust and you can't have the Holocaust without Hitler, then Hitler and Stalin go hand in hand.

Jay, if you have not run away from this one. Please tell me if you agree with this quote.

"If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”

O Sung,
Comments are one thing, the articles are another, you should read some of the stupid stories the so called "survivors" come up with.
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/10/world/time-too-painful-to-remember.html
"In the camp there was a cage with a bear and an eagle," he said. "Every day, they would throw a Jew in there. The bear would tear him apart and the eagle would pick at his bones." "But that's unbelievable," whispered a visitor. "It is unbelievable," said Mr. Hubert, "but it happened."
A bear and an eagle and a Jew in between..hmmmm, I wonder if that's a metaphor?
This is the typical form of the "evidence" for the Holocaust, exaggeration, hearsay and outright fabrication.
You might remember the Eichmann trial in the 1960's, witnesses appeared and gave testimony which directly contradicted the evidence given at Nuremberg, such as Adolf Berman and his kilometres wide field of bones and children's shoes at Treblinka:
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-026-03.html
It's funny that he'd say that given that the Soviets reportedly found nothing but the ruins of a farm at the supposed "death camp".
If you've got a few hours spare take a look at these videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvgtqC42gvI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64JcnVCKCtY
If you watch those videos you'll understand where I'm coming from, it's not that there's no evidence, it's the evidence itself which is the biggest problem and you'll understand why these days evidence is not allowed to be presented by defendants in "Holocaust denial" cases.

Jay, I did ask you what are your thoughts on Hitler. Being as widely read as you are, and since you have no problem passing an opinion on some local polititions, Greens for example, who you do not particularly like, surly you have an opinion of Hitler. Maybe you are just avoiding the question.

Yes, among millions of people you are going to get the story tellers, even those who will tell fibs. No matter how you spin it, twist it, distort it, you can't escape the Holocaust as the equally greatest crime of the 20th Century and we'll put the crimes of the other great monster, Stalin in to boot.

Hi there JAY of MELBOURNE...

Many thanks for the 'heads up' on the veracity of some of these Links you kindly refer too ? Indeed, sometimes the truth does get confused with the 'interpretation' of fact, particularly as time goes by, and memories cloud ? I don't believe anybody who is attempting to recount those dark days, would in reality deliberately set out to confuse or distort the real facts associated with an event as horrific as the Holocaust ?

Whether it was six million or five even two million Jews, that were consigned to their deaths, the sheer horror of those times should never be forgotten, where one ethnic group attempted to totally exterminate another ethnic group of people ? It's not the numerical quantity that should ever be forgotten, rather the pure 'INTENT' in the minds and hearts of the Nazi's, that accounts for it, that's the real horror of it all ?