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The Forum > General Discussion > Should we change the date of Australia Day?

Should we change the date of Australia Day?

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Paul,
Likewise, most Nationalists are skeptical of National Socialism, Jim Saleam wrote the following recently:

"Florian has asked whether the Waffen SS demonstrated in practise and by ideology that the Third Reich was pan European.

I have said that Nazism was not 'white nationalism' as we would understand it. The Slav sub human doctrine is one proof of that.

So what should one make of the Waffen SS?

I put up the argument that German fascism, and perhaps fascism generally, was a split phenomenon. In war, the Germans tested the doctrines of eastern expansion, the Slav sub-human theory and German hegemony - and it was all found wanting. Other lines, the product not just of the radicalization of the war but of the history of the NSDAP and German Conservative Revolution, returned to challenge official Nazism.

I mentioned the plan of certain SS generals to arrest Hitler over the matter of the the official Slavic ideology and its unfortunate practise.

The European fascists did not proceed to a European Revolution. In Hungary, Hitler favoured the conservatives and only reluctantly brought the National Socialist Arrow Cross to power in October 1944; in Rumania, Hitler endorsed the military-conservative suppression of the Iron Guard. In the latter case, sections of the SS concealed the Iron Guard leadership from Hitler in 1941, saving their lives. And so on.

The pan European theorising and activity of many Germans including in the SS was a challenge to official Nazism because it would have run counter to German hegemony in Europe; I don't think we can see it as an extension of the regime's politics. That changes the way we should interpret the whole experience of National Socialism .On a human level those who fought with Germany were locked into a Total War from which ultimately there was no escape."
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 28 January 2015 11:48:32 AM
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Foxy there's anecdotal evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jews fleeing from Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states to the Soviet Union as the Wehrmacht gained ground and then literally "disappearing" and it's thought that more than a million Jews died in the so called Holodomor famines in the 1930's.
The Soviet Union in the 1940's wasn't exactly "Jew Friendly" and we understand that the paranoid leadership of the security services viewed anyone who'd fallen into Nazi hands and then been liberated as tainted and many returned POW's, internees and slave labourers were exiled to the Gulags or shot.
Stalin showed the world his true face when he allied himself with the Third Reich, vice versa the same can be said of Hitler, it's a fact that the SS sent it's engineers and architects to the Soviet Union to study the Gulag system and that Dachau, the model camp was based on the Soviet designs.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 28 January 2015 12:03:51 PM
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Jay,

It could be him in the photo but I remember him as taller. The photo that I saw was from the side and there were many, many more bodies, the one in the link is probably towards the end of the clean up.
His unit was of a specialist nature and as an officer he probably got around more than most; lest it be thought odd that an officer would be driving a dozer and piling up bodies, it is common in the Royal Engineers that officers lead by example.
This is especially so among the bomb disposal blokes.
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 28 January 2015 1:52:59 PM
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Dear Jay,

Stalin admired Hitler, and initially, the two worked hand
in hand. Just prior to World War II, Stalin forced
his beleagured people to strip the natural resources of
Soviet occupied territories in preparation for war
against the Western democracies and to provide Hitler's
Germany with raw materials for the Nazi war machine.

"Russia was to supply a third of Germany's total needs of
oil, large quantities of iron ore, cotton, phosphates,
chromium, manganese, rubber supplies from the Far East and
a million metric tons of food grain." (Eric Koch,
"Stalin's pact with Hitler," International Perspectives
13 at 14 Sept/Oct. 1984)

In the Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty of 1939 (Treaty of
Non-Aggression between Germany and the USSR (Molotov-Ribbentrop
Pact), Aug 23, 1939; Secret Additional Protocol - Aug. 23,
1939, Secret Additional Protocol (Sept. 28, 1939, Documents
on German Foreign Policy, No 228,229,159 (1939) -

Stalin and Hitler went further, agreeing in a secret pact to
divide Eastern Europe and allow the advances of the Wehrmacht
and the Red Army for the purpose of dividing the hapless
Balts, Poles, and others, which led to the World War.

History is clear that in 1939, Stalin and Hitler were allies
against the free people of Europe. They were both, by then,
accomplished killers, even though Stalin led the score in
victims tortured, starved, and massacred. Each created panic
and chaos throughout Europe. Each produced millions of
refugees and homeless. Each was expanding and building
concentration camps in which millions of innocent victims would
perish. Both despised and mistrusted democracies. Both
were set on their conquests.

The two dictators used the same methods to deal with their
domestic opposition - terror (Eric Koch, "Stalin's
pact with Hitler.").
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 28 January 2015 2:29:07 PM
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Foxy, thanks for the above post, as time goes by, its been over 70 years now, and those that survived grow fewer in number, the truth can be distorted, and the true horrors of the past diminished. A quote;

"Without memory, there is no culture. Without memory, there would be no civilization, no society, no future." Elie Wiesel (a prisoner himself in Auschwitz)
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 29 January 2015 6:05:55 AM
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Dear Paul,

Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn tells us in the Preface,
to his book, "The Gulag Archipelago," about an old
Russian proverb that says:

"No, don't! Don't dig up the past!
Dwell on the past and you'll lose an eye!"

But the proverb goes on to say:

"Forget the past and you'll
lose both eyes."

Decades go by, and the scars and sores of the past are
healing over for good. However, unless we learn from the
mistakes of the past, the tragedies, it is unlikely that
we will have a very bright future to contemplate.
The moral choice is ours to make.

Also, it is important to also acknowledge that while the
Nazis have been pursued all over the world for
their crimes, the other half of the criminals, the
communist criminals, were allowed to go free. They were,
in effect, given tacit permission to continue the
operation of their concentration camps, to expand their
draconian system to include psychiatric wards, thereby
raising torture, suppression, and murder to a science.
The fact that the process persisted was vividly disclosed to
the free world by Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 29 January 2015 10:08:58 AM
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