otb,

Please explain what exactly do you find as being
"wrong then and wrong now?" On what evidence do
you base your assertions?

BTW: I suppose I should be
flattered at your going to all the trouble of
digging up my old posts under my old moniker -
from the past. What do you hope to achieve by it?

Hi there PESKY BOY...

I'm sorry if you've mistaken the thrust of this Topic ? The two propositions articulated herein, have nothing remotely to do with the reduction of crime; rather it's another process of PUNISHMENT ! Perhaps more precisely explained thus...

(i) Another method of the administration of punishment; or

(ii) An alternative for a convicted individual to avoid gaol !

Hi there CONSERVATIVE HIPPIE...

Your proposal (with the rider; 'that it may sound silly') to remove many of the amenities from prison cells might just cause a riot ! That said, much of what you suggest is absolutely meritorious ! A case of proffering the carrot, and being rewarded by additional concessions for good behaviour and productive industry whilst incarcerated. An excellent model, but fundamentally flawed so say many of the academics who study 'cause and effect' of penology.

In the Katingal 'experiment', it was thought by the 'experts', that notwithstanding that each inmate was classified as intractable and dangerous, if each were permitted certain allowable benefits in their single cells, their behaviour would be more acceptable, thus controllable ? Rather than earning those benefits.

Further CONS. HIPPIE, there's a certain ethic that's been loudly proclaimed and promoted ad nauseam, by those academics who're forever studying the prison system. Essentially, it says '...an individual is sent to prison 'as' a punishment, not 'for' punishment...? A reasonable proposition I would've thought.

When I first joined the job, I was quite surprised at the degree of respect police received from the average member of the public. Perhaps respect might not be quite the right term, maybe anxiety, unease, even nervousness ? Unease that you might be doing the wrong thing ? I'd not use fear, as it conjures up all manner of emotions, which might be significantly misleading ? Anyway, there was a saying in those days (late 1960's early '70's) we, the coppers 'owned' the streets, 'owned' the nights - a noble belief, nevertheless reasonable correct ! Meaning it was a fairly safe place to be in most parts of Sydney in those years, not quite everywhere, but most.

On retirement, I was so very surprised at my 'send-off' to hear from several blokes within my own peer group (detectives, sergeants, couple of inspectors), stories of 'fear' expressed by some M&F young police members ? Words like 'scared' too nervous to work 'one out', frightened to undertake traffic stops. The days of some reluctant respect of police, are long gone ? In reality, it's a complete reversal ?

If the coppers are demonstratively, too wary or suspicious to work the streets, and the nights, then how must ordinary members of the public feel ?

This unsustainable nonsense that certain parts of Bankstown as an example, being declared 'out of bounds' under threat of extreme violence, by certain radical Muslim cliques, purely because they've avowed 'sole' claim to the suburb and it's extensive environs, is preposterous ! An utter joke perpetuated by spineless, politically correct and morally corrupt politicians ! This is NOT the Australia, that I love and respect !

Therefore this 'manifesto' of mandated, corporal punishment (as a 'PUNISHMENT, NOT an ALTERNATIVE to imprisonment) sanctioned for certain categories of violent and/or aggravated crimes, occasioned against women, children and some instances males. I'd respectfully submit there would be overwhelming public endorsement, if clearly elucidated and strict boundaries were clearly established, for the introduction of judiciously approved, corporal punishment, of a kind I've described herein ?

'As a civil libertarian and member of Amnesty International I deplore all acts of violence'

except of course Paul the butcher of the unborn. We will just change terminology so as to fit my 'peaceful' nature.

Hi there SNAKE...

I too copped my share of the cane, the worst, or best if you like, was from the Headmaster - '...six of the best...' was the term, the class teacher described it as ? My indictable offence was being caught fighting behind the ablutions block, whereupon both of us were paraded before the HM ! There was a glimmer of respite in the whole sorry saga, it was as well the playground teacher had interceded when he did, it was I who was on the losing end of that particular bout, emmm ? The cane never left any unpleasant memories with me at least !

Hi there FOXY...

I must confess, I'm surprised at your response considering how careful you are with much of what you write ? I understand you're of the left, very much a pacifist, an academic, of which I have uttermost respect for, in your case.

I realise I don't state my case very well, for that I'm very sorry. The general thrust of my argument is 'adding' corporal punishment as an addition to the suite of correctional options ! As a PUNISHMENT. Notwithstanding how long they may receive in gaol, the caning is merely an addition (a Punishment) to be added to a term of imprisonment.

The average 'hard head' (heavy) who has no hope nor wish of rehabilitation, redemption or anything else, rarely would warrant the cane if introduced. Why, because they're quite comfortable with both their lifestyles and being perceived as professional 'recidivist' criminals. They preserve their criminal reputations very closely. It's important they're regarded, even by police, as durable and resilient characters, particularly amongst those of the underworld ! I could cite a dozen names without the need of ever thinking of any of their specifics, or multitude of crimes committed. Name their wives and kids even.

Generally speaking those in this group contain or restrain their violent activities to within themselves, rarely, unnecessarily involving members of the public. It's here that generally speaking, where the criminologists, the psychologists etc. go terribly wrong, still, that's another story altogether ?

Dear O Sung Wu,

Your understanding of me is not correct.

I am not "of the Left."
I am not an "academic."
I am not a "Pacifist."

So your "respect" for me may well be unfounded - if
it's based on those assumptions.

Fingers-crossed that it's not.

Anyway, my apologies, that I wanted to broaden this
discussion.I should have stuck to the subject.
With that in mind - the following link may be of
interest:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/mayjune_2011/features/bring_back_the_lash029136.php?page=all