Dear Aime
I thought I'd drop back to this thread, thinking it had run its course, but surprised to find a considerable level of activity and interest.. good stuff all of you.

Just a point though, you mentioned Churches won't do anything for animals because they don't have a soul? Hmm I wouldn't make it such a theological issue.. I can't give you a truckload of chapters and verses for this, but the tone and impression I gain from the Old Testament, (where there is much more reference to the agricultural side of life) is certainly not that they should be neglected.

The main principle from Genesis (apart from the human fall) is the stewardship of all life.

Personally, I would not 'not' worry about animals simply because they are said not to have a soul. I don't see how we can fill our lives with the Love of Christ and then limit that love to our fellow man only. I think it touches all life, including animals.

PALE.. I know Steve Ryder I'm happy to hear of his continued work and involvement. If I remember correctly Steve had quite a dramatic conversion and 'colorful' background b4 he found Christ.

blessings to all of you.

David said....."Personally, I would not 'not' worry about animals simply because they are said not to have a soul."

David, I've come to expect your comments to hold a much higher regard for both humans and animals than some religious people I know and have known.
I believe that there's a triangle of stewardship that when combined, sustains all of life on Earth. They are...stewardship of the planet, of all it's creatures and lastly, humans themselves. No doubt David, you would add a fourth dimension, that of belief a in God.

This entire business of breeding copious amounts of animals simply to supply greedy humans who, since the advent of the oil age, have bred like maggots on a chop, is nothing short of appalling. As with everything humans do, they've thought only of money and greed. They've displaced natural inhabitants from THEIR land and claimed it as their own. As a result, they've unbalanced the forces of nature temporarily, but she's mounting her defenses to fight back with a peak in easily obtainable natural resources and Global warming/climate change. The balance WILL be restored.

David, no matter the amount of dissent people throw in your direction in some of these posts, you remain steadfast and controlled. That alone places you high on my list of decent people I've come across and I might add that they're very few and far between. Nice to see you weren't harmed on your Friday afternoon excursion to the law courts.

Hello All

Aime I agree David has got something- he knows that. Mind you it took me ages to figure it out because a lot of his past threads are quote from the bible.
Not that there is anything wrong with that until its used as a a rock to climb under.
Neil is the man in charge of the Salvation Army. We have raised the question to them about collecting money from the public knowing full well that many public think it goes to buy fodder.
In response a add was put on TV saying- WE ALL KNOW HOW TO FEED SHEEP? There is a classic example of shear arrogance.
What we need to do is figure out how many seconds that part runs for and at what cost to the public who donated.
They could have said in the same time. THE SALVATION ARMY FARMERS APPEAL DOES NOT GIVE MONEY TO TO BUY FODDER.- or words to that effect.

So lets talk for a moment about what they did put on TV and why.
" We All Know How To Feed Sheep"

Whats behind that TV add and why?
We all Know How To Feed Sheep.
How does that help the animals and farmers?
We all know how to feed sheep?
Surley given Neils explanation of the guidlines by Peter Costello thats got to be getting close to mis use of the donations.

David I opended this thread for you to be given a chance to help the animals. We all have a reasonsibilty. Steve is an ok guy yes. However nobody can do this alone.
Your perfect because you speak the lingo. Please dont do the christian thing- Say a few words from the bible and run.
This is wrong and I need a good letter to print in all the papers.
Between yourself and Amie I think you both could put something together suitable if you dont mind.
I wont write it because they will claim I have a personal beef

PALE, sorry for not replying sooner. I've been temporarily "press ganged" into a month of full time work which has severely restricted my Internet time.

PALE, I know little about the Salvo's or how they administer their finances and distribute them, although I once knew a Salvo family, but didn't even realise it for a couple of years until they told me. They weren't 'tin rattlers' and I never saw a Salvo uniform anywhere in sight. I also had a good friend work for them for several years and apart from providing woeful pay, they were otherwise good employers. I don't know how to express my views on what you're proposing and how I think the Salvo's would react to anything I could write or do, but I'll try by saying this....

In the World, there are lots of organisations ranging from small to large. Some are special single interest groups such as local anti wind farm people, anti battery hen groups, pro-lifers, ect and they're all raising important issues, but there are so many groups and simply because there are so many people on the Earth raising so many issues. The Salvo's work for their cause which is helping the less fortunate of the human species. I doubt very much that your group or anyone else including myself can change their focus to any great degree. If I truly thought I could help, then I would, but I really don't think you can sway them to the animal cause. Much better to forget them and pursue a different organisation. Ok, the RSPCA for some very strange reason hasn't put their hand up, but there must be others.

My bet is that the issue of farm stock will blow over at least for the next few months thanks to a little rain falling, however, I'll continue to wish you well with your cause.

Thanks Amie
This is not so much about the Salvation Army but as allChurch Leaders. The Red cross the Salvation Army are just a few who collected money from the public for farmers.
Farmers want feed for stock- We thought we should point out they prefer produce than prayers.
All Church Leaders have the number one reasonsibilty to stand up for God Creatures- especially the innoccent that cant speak for themselves.
If the Muslim Leaders of Australia can speak out about Animal cruelty including live exports why not our Christian Leaders.?
RSPCA should be doing something. Somebody told me they have millions tucked away.
Perhaps when you get time you might be able to write to them
I have written to RSPCA National on many ocashions on many issues.
Also I was not refering to good Salvation Army familes but all their well paid leaders.
I am basically disgusted with NFP organisations who take huge chunks from the public donations to pay themselves.
That includes Animal Welfare organisations.
We will not be backing off our exposhure of the slack lack of efforts to speak out for Gods creatures by Church Leaders.
We hope to run a national tV add as soon as possible.
They will be hearing much more from us.
Let the public be the judge when they view the footage.
In the mean time it costs Church Leaders NOTHING- Not one cent to speak out about the cruel intensive farming live exports and many other issue.
I dont hear them. I have never heard them. Do you hear them?
Its Shameful as they hide behind their grants.
Do you remember what the Lord said about people like that?
Good luck with your work Aimie.
Your comments are vauled.

Yes PALE, church leader should have a responsibility to stand up for all creatures, but, because they regard anything that is NOT human as being a lesser species, they will always put the needs of humans before that of other creatures. Their sole aim is to buy their way to heaven by whatever means and to heck with animals. They are not custodians of the Earth. In fact they could be blamed for much of what is wrong in the world today. David is different. He follows much more closely the life of Jesus Christ and for that I admire him, even though we hold opposing views of God as a whole.
However, I'm sure most sincere church leaders and indeed, church goers would be appalled at how some animals are being treated in Australia. What the rest of the world does to animals doesn't bear thinking about, but when it comes to various church run welfare groups, it's all about humans. That's where any 'spare' money goes. Unfortunately, funding, donations etc often goes towards organisational payments including wages and operational costs (running cars, paying utility bills etc), therefore I seriously doubt you'll get anywhere with the churches. Many religious organisations have become increasingly greedy and much of that greed has gone to spreading their brand of faith to often ignorant people. In short, they don't adhere to the very book from which their dubious "faith" was taken.....the Bible.
I could write a book on the subject. I've studied it in the past like an insect under a microscope and found organised religion to come up wanting rather badly, that's why I say forget them and concentrate on groups more closely tied to animal welfare. Unfortunately there's not much I can do from here at present. Thanks to the Internet, awareness of various groups and organisations espousing animal welfare have been brought to the fore, yet it's also unfortunate that most of these groups are situated in capital cities and meetings are well out of my territory, otherwise I might be tempted to become more involved.