chrisgaff1000> This does not excuse the Ruskies who supplied the weapon and the expertize to use it or the ground crew that fired the thing.<<

Chris, I don't believe you can use that as a validation of intent and therefore culpability. If that was the benchmark America could be tarred with the same brush....more American manufactured weapons and more American “advisors” are on foreign soils than the all the other nations combined...talk about over representation....does that suggest anything?

Then about all you can conclude from your logic, SOG, is that the Russian hooligans in Ukraine were not culpable, since they didn't INTEND to shoot down a civilian plane. They meant only to use a Russian-supplied missile to shoot down Ukrainian military cargo planes. Over Ukraine.

BUT the Russian military IS culpable for providing those hooligans with such sophisticated weapons, and thereby if the local military commanders had authority from Moscow, and the Russian War Minister had even tacit authority from Putin, then Putin is ultimately responsible for this gross interference in the internal affairs of a neighbouring country.

A bit like in Georgia, really. I wonder whose next ?

Yes, it was evil of the Yanks to shoot down an Iranian civilian plane in 1988. And it's evil for Russia to shoot down a Malaysian civilian plane in 2014. Two bully-boy powers. A pox on both of them.

Joe

In an apologia for the Nazi war criminals, Jay of Melbourne has dredged up a barrage of enemy propaganda.

For example, “the Zionist line about German soldiers playing dress ups”. His own Führer made reference to the supposed Polish invasion of Germany in the whining speech of 01.09.1939 with which he launched the Drang nach Osten: “For the first time last night, Polish military invaded our territory”.

The “conspiracy theories about arson attacks” refer to the burning of the Reichstag. Just Google Reichstag Fire Decree for why it was set on fire.

Hitler, an even worse liar than Bush, Howard and Blair, in the same whining diatribe demanding Polish and Czech territory, claimed “Germany has fulfilled its obligations! The minorities living within the Reich are not persecuted” So there was no Kristallnacht, no Nuremberg laws (http://history1900s.about.com/od/1930s/a/Nuremberg-Laws.htm), no Jew roundups, no Auschwitz, Belsen, Buchenwald etc. etc.

Far from attacking Germany, the Zionists connived with the Nazis, welcoming the persecution of Jews which would encourage them to infiltrate Palestine. See for example “51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis.” Ed. Lenni Brenner
http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2013/10/11/a-review-of-lenni-brenners-51-documents-zionist-collaboration-with-the-nazis/

But enough time wasted on rebutting enemy propaganda which was exposed a lifetime ago. Just to remember that anything a Nazi says or said about 1938-1945 or anything else will be lies.

Bazz>>Ding-a-ling Ding-a-ling Ding-a-ling !<<

Bazz “they” want NATO bases in the Ukraine and control over the only warm water port Russia has, and they want to sell their gas in place of Russia’s.....please do not give me arguments based around infrastructure lead periods....If “America” is prepared to let market forces dictate the outcome of their European sell in, why did Hunter Biden and another administration puppet join the board of the largest private gas company in Ukraine....great timing...just when they are isolating Russia.
You can’t believe the mass media Bazz...they printed Brzezinski's assertions that:
"Russia has generated in Ukraine widespread hostility towards Russia on the part of some 40 million people."

But a recent survey conducted in April 2014 by the influential Razumkov Centre in Kiev stated that “despite” of the aggravation of Russia-Ukrainian relations more than a half of respondents consider Russians a friendly and fraternal nation.

More than half the Ukraine is not buying the American administrations propaganda. I don’t buy it either.

Loudmouth >> A pox on both of them.<<

We can agree on that Joe, but how do we pox the administrations and spare the poor bastards who like us just populate these nations and have less control over their governments actions than the corporations and vested money interests have......and use.

Jay>> At some point you're going to have to accept that Hitler was needlessly backed into a corner, that Britain, Poland and France started WW2 and that the history of the Zionist led Atlantic alliance is one of brutality and warmongering<<

Jay, you cannot disregard how the Versailles Treaty and the Great Depression moulded Hitler’s personal intents. It is all there in Mein Kamph...it’s like a prophesy, have you read it...Hitler’s territorial ambitions, his social agenda and a time period to have it all come to fruition, its all there right down to a set designation of duties for the subjugated nations....it was a plan written a decade before it was implemented.....

Sonofgloin,
Yes, Hitler's plan was Lebensraum in Eastern Europe and a new European aristocracy based upon the SS, even mainstream historians now accept that because of the recently declassified GHQ papers on the Hess mission.
Emperor Julian is doing something different, he's trying to use the bogus information tendered by the Soviets in the Nuremberg show trials to impeach the very people whose whole worldview is centred upon those same lies, the real world doesn't work that way.
The lies about people being poisoned with insecticide or diesel smoke by a tyrant bent on world domination are the moral justification for everything the Zionist powers and their spokespeople Cameron, Obama, Merkel, Abbott, Netanyahu and Hollande are doing in the world.
If you object to the treatment of the Gazans or the actions of ISIS and Svoboda why the hell would you promote the bogus Holocaust narrative? Without it the Zionists have nothing.

Hey in the end much of the information on WW2 and the trainloads of seized Nazi documents are in the archives in Moscow, some pretty interesting stuff is bound to come to light if the Zionists keep aggravating Putin, he's already broken the Taboo about publicly naming the ethnic group which made up most of the Bolsheviks and Cheka and the FSB would probably know where the bodies are buried.