Cossomby, all fine. I'm not trying to make that the issue but did feel the need to comment.

R0bert

Cossomby,

"I regret that the recent angry exchanges about who said what have overshadowed the truly serious issue at the heart of this theme."

This is very long thread, and I think it's fair to say that many of us covered "the truly serious issue at the heart of this theme" substantially in the course of it.

I don't believe I erred in confronting Ludwig over his serial demonising of my conduct toward him on this thread. Why should I remain silent when I'm impugned and falsely accused by Ludwig of "verbally abusing him".

I note he hasn't produced links to my copious abuse of him...(mainly because they don't exist)

......

RObert,

I'll just add that the experience I related earlier in the thread certainly doesn't overshadow my life. I hardly ever think of it. It was once - and, shocking as it was for me at the time, was not ongoing and was not of the worst of its kind (if I can put it like that)

The reason I spoke of it at all was because of individual's contribution in attempting to blame young victims for opportunistic men taking advantage of them out of the blue. I was incensed, knowing that my situation was one of true innocence...that's why I spoke up.

It's certainly not something that plays on my mind...a long time ago...and rarely comes into my mind at all.

Poirot, sorry I wasn't trying to imply that it has. I've not personally noticed a difference in tone in your comments on this thread compared to others of us on this thread but do tend to be somewhat blind to variations of that stuff anyway. Thinking about your comments I accept that I've given accusations against you more leeway (which was not much leeway) than they deserve for which I apologise.

R0bert

RObert,

Please don't apologise...there was no problem at all.

In fact, I appreciated your sensitivity to the issue, especially since I'd had that experience.

Just wanted to let you know that it isn't something that dominates my thought patterns...just that my decision to mention it on this thread was triggered by individual's attitude.

Cheers : )

I wrote:

>> So I’d be more than happy to set our differences aside and just resume cordial discussions <<

Poirot, you replied:

<< I don't think so, mate. >>

Ok, the record shows that I tried to make peace and you rejected it.

I tried to uphold a good conversation with you early in this thread. Then when you became heated and polarised and just plain nasty, and it was clear that I couldn’t entertain a sensible dialogue with you, I stopped responding to you, and eventually told you what I thought of you and the two other little Ludwig-bashers.

I took the right approach there.

You are incredibly two-faced. And it is clearly impossible to have a sensible conversation with you. You just insist on seeing the absolute worst in everything I write. Everything just gets projected way out into very negative territory.

Even my desire to make up with you got turned around and made to appear as a negative thing.

I actually thought that you'd agree to put our differences behind us so that we could resume a cool-headed discussion of this issue. But alas, it is not to be.

<< I regret that the recent angry exchanges about who said what have overshadowed the truly serious issue at the heart of this theme. >>

Me too Cossomby.

<< the responses by Ludwig and his supporters indicate how deeply entrenched is the sense of male entitlement - to just a bit of groping, to just having a bit of fun, with no sense of the rights of others >>

Excuse me, I would ask you to either retract that statement or to at least take my name out of it.

Never have I given any indication anywhere that I think it was <just a bit of groping, to just having a bit of fun, with no sense of the rights of others>

You’ve apparently been sucked in by Jay’s rantings ??

Oh dear Cossomby, I appreciate your input in this thread. I don’t want to get offside with you. But I’ve got to set that particular statement of yours right.