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The Forum > General Discussion > You're Paranoid !

You're Paranoid !

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Boaz, the links you provide have the same credibility to me as a KKK site.

You have this naive belief that if i) something is published on the internet and ii) you agree with it, then it automatically should be viewed as "truth".

Conversely, you have this belief that if i) something is published on the internet and ii) you disagree with it, then it automatically should be viewed as "untruth".

Perhaps not remarkably, this precisely echoes your religious beliefs.

If something was written in the Bible, and it shows Christianity in a good light, then it must be true.

If something was written in the Bible, and it shows Christianity in a bad light, then it must be a metaphor, and misunderstood.

If something was written in the Qur'an, and it shows Islam in a bad light, then it must be true.

If something was written in the Qur'an, and it shows Islam in a good light, then it must be irrelevant, since the bad bits inevitably take precedence in your eyes.

It is therefore unfortunately not possible to take your Chicken Little moments seriously. The sky is not falling.

We are simply going through a phase where two fanatical religious factions are snarling at each other. On one side we have a small number of extremist Muslims, on the other we have a noisy band of self-righteous Christians, both sides fanning the flames in order to increase their perceived self-importance.

It will pass. There are simply too many ordinary people of ordinary goodwill, who will weather the random acts of cowardice and concentrate on building bridges between people with different backgrounds and upbringings. Just as we always have.

Progress towards peace in Northern Ireland was not accomplished by either religion "winning", but the people simply getting tired of the hatred and the killing.

Your mission, on the other hand, will ultimately be crushed under the weight of your own fears, which will be very sad.

What will you do then?
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 22 May 2007 9:43:04 AM
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Boaz,

1. “I've been mistreated personally, threatened, used and abused”

Flawed argument. Many Aussie mossies are abused everyday it’s a fact of life. A new convert to Islam 5th generation aussie girl was spat on in Rockdale last week. To any rational person that is a single incident by a coward. To use an incident to paint a society, a country, a faith is totally irrational. Rwanda with 96% Christian population slaughtered 800,000 non-christian infidels 15 years ago. Does that mean I use it to criticise your faith?
On the humour, you don’t come across as Mr Tactful :) if you go to someone’s country and attack their faith in the manner you dispaly on OLO you should not expect open arms and hot chocolate :-)

2. “taking the Bible seriously as a Christian, (and rightly understanding it) leads to: -Proclamation, -Dialogue, - love”

Again that’s your personal view. Nigerian Christians carry machine guns in the streets and Russian orthodox stone gays in the streets.
Many infallible popes had a Hitler-like views on christianity.
The love and dialogue have nothing to do with religious dogmas as it exists in bhuddism, secular societies and Sufi Muslims amongst others. Its good you managed to re-invent ur faith as tolerant and loving but don't believe too much your own marketing material :-)

3. “The pen....is indeed mightier than the sword... and I have the pen in my hand”
That my friend is the wisdom I live by, the pen and the www is the only way to interact and dialogue.
www.affinity.org.au are doing good community efforts, please help us support and being part of our community. Enjoy your faith and let us enjoy ours.

Peace,
Posted by Fellow_Human, Tuesday, 22 May 2007 11:04:28 AM
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Hi F.H.... again :)

I did a bit of interaction on IRC and came up with this character.
I mentioned the hadith Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386: and basically this bloke agrees that my understanding of 'invasive' Jihad is quite true and legit. Then.. see how he gives the 'Muslim in minority' spin a bit further down "But we must live in peace with all" :) what rubbish.. On the one hand

"Invasion to establish the rule of Allah" is fine...
then
"But we must live in peace" :)

<Rafeeq> 29. Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
<Rafeeq> The Noble Quran - Dr.Khan & Dr.Hilali Surah:9.At-Taubah.
<Rafeeq> until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
<MuayThai2> So..let me be clear.. you believe that offensive JIhad is ok to establish the rule of Allah ?
<Rafeeq> if we kill all jews and christians... then who will pay jizya?
<Rafeeq> yes [THIS is in answer to my question about offensive jihad]
<Rafeeq> or we can have peace treaty
<MuayThai2> So.. invasion of non Muslim lands is lawful jihad.. ?
<Rafeeq> you dont fight me and I wont attack you.. but dont stop Islam and muslims
<Rafeeq> That is the true Jihad
<Rafeeq> truest

All I'm showing here, is that your understanding is not that shared by all Muslims.

Only by recognizing this, can we make progress. For me... progress has many aspects.
-"Political"...protecting our state from invasion without and within.
-"Polemical" ...proclaiming the Biblical Christ as the final truth.
-"Pastoral"... when people have found Christ, to nurture them into disciples.

Don't look 'just' at the one and seek to define me by it :)
Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 22 May 2007 12:59:56 PM
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Answering your article title question: yes, You're paranoid! Only in your case its self inflicted.

I guess I can dig out Crusaders material written in the same time as your references and live in self inflicted fear that all western countries are just crusaders in disguise... You know, you got a lot in common with the jihadists:-)

Whatever, have a happy life if you chose to..

Pericles,

Your analysis impressed me. :)

Peace my friend,
Posted by Fellow_Human, Tuesday, 22 May 2007 2:01:33 PM
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BD, still on your never-ending personal crusade to warn us all about the evils of Islam.

If it is controversial religious texts that you are offended or confronted by then I wonder how would you would react to a religion whose holy text includes saying that Non-Believers are –

1. Sub-human animals who may be freely exterminated, lied to, cheated and stolen from.
2. Do not have to be paid wages for their work and are outside the protection of the Law.
3. Prone to acts of bestiality and will never go to heaven.

It also says that the Bible should be burned and that Jesus was a sexually immoral sorcerer and a bastard whose very name is a curse and whose mother was a whore. According to this book, Jesus is now in hell, being boiled in hot excrement.

At the risk of being labelled an anti-Semite, this hateful, racist and chauvinistic book is the Babylonian Talmud, which typically outranks the Jerusalem Talmud and the Old Testament and is being followed by Orthodox and Hasidic Jews today.

Even that famous (mis)quote used in Schindler’s List about “saving the life of a single human being like saving the whole world” actually refers to saving Jewish lives only. Gentile lives are worthless.

If you find those beliefs to be offensive, you are not alone.

However I know several Jewish people and not one of them would subscribe to these beliefs.

Likewise I know both Muslims and Christians who happily ignore controversial parts of their respective holy texts because they are simply not relevant to modern life.

They are also all personally enlightened enough to have a happy fulfilling life in spite of these things.

Life is too short for these distractions.
Posted by wobbles, Tuesday, 22 May 2007 3:50:36 PM
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Wobbles.. thankyou for your contribution... I would like to know your actual source for those things, because the echo the 'Protocals of Zion' almost to a T and they have long since been debunked as Marxist slander without foundation.
So.. b4 saying more, I'll await your reference or source please.

F.H. That little chat encounter demonstrated the 2 aspects of the Islamic world.

1/ Invasive Jihad is lawful.
2/ We must be happy clapping peaceful Muslims in non muslim societies.

The difficulty comes, when we try to determine
a) why there is this difference and
b) if Invasive Jihad (to establish Allah's rule) is lawful.. it can come anytime, with the possible exception of the other party having a peace treaty with the Muslims.

Thank you for your suggestion that I am in my own little self made world :) I'll remember that next I stare Abdullah Merhi or Benbrika in the face at the county court.

Remember J Edgar Hoover ? sure you do.. he is the one at the head of the FBI who repeatedly asked 'WHAT organized crime'? but we know the truth...don't we.

Pericles analysis is neither here nor there.. I've demonstrated his lack of rationality on some issues over and over.

EVIDENCE.
If we have a statement in the Quran, which is clearly corroborated by others in the Hadith from numerous witnesses then.. this is what the legal system terms a 'compelling case'.

I have only ONE major claim to support. "Islam..is aggresive not peaceful" I've proved this beyond doubt.

Surah9 (whole) Verses 29&30 in particular.

Mohammads sunnah/understanding of Surah9:29
Hadith Muslim book 1 29, 30, 31
Hadith Bhukari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386

Indisputable. If you DO dispute it, you only support it by pointing to gross contradictions in the Quran.
In addition, what is clear, is that Islamic Jihad/invasion to establish the Rule of Allah is totally 'lawful' even though the victims don't convert, but they get taxed.
You cannot support from Islamic history that they only responded to others attacking them, you can at best point to 'some instances' of that.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 22 May 2007 5:30:48 PM
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