F.H. I don't owe Pericles anything. I responded to that issue in previous posts. I said "did you see the question mark".... for your comfort I'll agree that I could have looked more closely at that specific issue, and I don't feel my question in that specific instance was based on adequate research. Happy ? :)

Now..to Perilous.

You said: "Telling stories that are readily accepted by the hoi polloi as being factual, when in fact they are nothing more than innuendo, wrapped in a paranoia born of fear."

1/ My 'hate sites' are the Islamic hadith and Quran.
2/ I refer to history, where I offer sources liberally.
3/ They are not 'innuendo'.
4/ Paranoia is based on un-reality. I am focused on reality.
5/ Fear... you better believe it.. yes I grant you that one.

ROB
The 'Moslem' male said women were made from a CROOKED rib and can reason better than women. (This is Quranic/Hadithic and yes, it is sexist)

-He said the man can BEAT his wife if she is watching TV and fails to jump up and make him food when he came home.

As to the issue 'taking a religious text further than is wise'.. I remind you he emphasised not "man said", but "ALLAH... said"

I wish to take this opportunity to contrast the New Testament Teaching on Husbands wives.

CHRISTIAN
"Husbands love your wives as CHRIST loved the Church and gave himself up for her" Eph 5:25

ISLAMIC "if she does not obey you after admonishment and separation, BEAT her" Quran 4:24 (paraphrase)

Irespective of the Old Testament accounts of slaves, if you cannot see an 'east is from the west' gulf between Islamic teaching and Christian here, then... I'll add you to the list of recipients of medication I'm prescribing for Perilous.

You need to learn to separate 'getting me' from 'truth'.

Boaz,

You ran out of steam on my challenge above.
You ignored Pericles comment re the VT massacre because you don't have the steam to explain the impact of the Biblical story of Ishmael. I guess that is also expected from you.

But why do you insist on challenging non-Muslims on Islam and the Quran? is this part of the fair and honest intellect you are :)
PS: the Quran have a full chapter (177 verses titled: Women) on women rights to inherit, keep their maiden name, right to divorce, etc..
Can you list a quote of women rights in the Bible? Start with Eve's rights in Gen.

Be a sport and take it on the chin.

For the record, Boaz, that question mark does not excuse you.

If anything, it makes the remark even more pernicious, since it was an indication that you hadn't checked your facts, so were making the allegation purely out of mischief. That is the behaviour that I believe needs the apology.

>>Are you serious? Where were you on 9/11? Is the USA not a 'major ally'? Did you turn off the Tely when London was bombed? Spain? Bali?<<

Boaz, these were the acts of terrorists.

They were isolated incidents. Even if - even if - they were the acts of the same organization, they are hardly in the same league as the annexation of the Sudetenland, or the invasion of Poland.

Terrorist acts are designed not only to damage the targets against which they are perpetrated, but to instill fear into their perceived enemies. From your reaction, they have certainly achieved that objective.

And having done so, they rely heavily on that fear giving rise to a range of reactions and overreactions.

The reaction, as we have seen, is for the targetted communities to suspend their own freedoms, and consider every one of their own citizens a suspect until proven otherwise.

Have you travelled to the US recently? The paranoia has penetrated every corner of their civilization, and has turned their people into a bunch of security-obsessed wowsers.

The overreaction, as you amply demonstrate, has been the creation of a small, but highly vocal, group of knee-jerk scaredy-cats who jump at the slightest breath of wind, and spend their time vilifying those whom they firmly believe are the cause of, and reason for their fear.

The terrorists could hardly have hoped for a more satisfying state of affairs. A bunch of noisy, unthinking people whose sole objective is to transmit the fear that they feel, into their fellow-citizens.

Can you not see how you are being manipulated?

Not by Islam, but by a small bunch of terrorists, who can pull your strings to perform their bidding with the absolute minimum of effort on their part.

Pericles. I don't feel manipulated at all..I feel exilerated and alive.

Just for an insight on the 'foe'.. have a read of this.

http://www.discoverislam.com/ Look at the picture.. the wholesome sweet nature of the girls.. then look down below.. the bottom.. where there are a couple of children.. probably around 9 yrs old.....

Hold that thought, then .. read this discussion by a Muslim Convert (German physicist)

http://www.averroes-foundation.org/articles/sex_slavery.html

and here is one of his conclusions about the outcome of 'traditional' Islam taking control of a country.. please take the time to read his report of 'Islam class' and see 2 things.

1) His interaction with the 'shaikh' and'
2) The views of other students he encountered on the teaching of the shaikh.

Part of his conclusion:

"And if in ten or twenty years international law disappears and there is a Caliph who fights a just war and takes war captives, then there could be slave markets again, and then Muslim men would go and buy slave girls and have sex with them without marrying them, whether these girls like it or not."

MY CONCLUSION. Is that irrespective of anything like 9/11 there is a real enemy out there, and its name is 'traditional Islam'. And anywhere it raises its dark ugly head..I'll try to verbally swat it down, or expose its true colors.
The issue of 'traditional' verses 'progressive' as raised by this man, and his reference to the schools of Islam confirmed beyond any possible doubt that my 'rants' are not only justified but essential.

I worry about you Boaz, I really do.

>>I don't feel manipulated at all..I feel exilerated and alive<<

Well of course you don't feel manipulated. But you are. And you would be of little use to the terrorists if you were not enthusiastically alive.

Every time you find a quotation, or a translation, or an observation that plays upon your fear, you rush out and tell everyone who will listen.

You are an essential weapon in the terrorists armoury. A fanatic who can be relied upon to stir up hatred and propagate fear at every opportunity.

Boaz, without people like you, it would be horrendously difficult for Al Qaeda or any other cell to recruit converts to the terrorist cause in Australia. But by stirring up hatred between religions as you do, you perform the valuable task of recruitment agent.

If you turned away from rabble-rousing they would have less material to work with.

Your examples, by the way, get more and more puzzling. What am I supposed to learn from "Oliver A Ruebenacker... a convert from Germany who lives with his wife in Cambridge, Massachuetts"

Is he typical? Is he typical of converts? Is "the Shafi'i school, one of the four orthodox Sunni schools of fiqh" representative of all Islamic schools?

Because I can find equally obscure - and contentious - arguments about Christianity. Here's one I found with no difficulty at all:

"Our children's minds are being attacked daily in all spheres of their innocent life by anti-White and anti-Christian propaganda. By the time they reach adult hood they are an obedient slave to the ideas of race mixing, globalism, homosexuality, abortion, and dozens of Marxist based, liberal schemes meant to artificially lift non-whites to a higher level of civilization - a civilization they condemn on one hand and then beg to be a part of the next - all of this at the expense and destruction of White Christians"

If I built a vicious anti-Christian campaign based upon this sort of stuff, I would expect you to be angry.

In fact, I'd rely on it.

BD, "You need to learn to separate 'getting me' from 'truth'. "

or better still

"You need to learn to separate 'getting at the competition' from 'truth'."

You take the weakest examples and tout them as proof that Islam is somehow a massive danger to our nation (and your religion is not).

You insist that your faiths be judged by their core documents and then insist that you be the arbitrator of how they are interpreted and which bits are suitable to use for that purpose.

When the similarities between your own faith an Islam are demonstrated you dismiss the sections of your faith as either not real christainity or passed or just dismiss it "Irespective of the Old Testament accounts of slaves,".

You refuse to apologise for blatent slanders on Muslims even when clearly shown to be wrong and then hide behind pathetic excuses such as a question mark. To proud to say "I was wrong and I have sinned by bearing false witness"

Your use of two sets of scales, your lack of personal accountability for your actions and your determination to cause disent where none need exist are matters you should be deeply ashamed of.

Time to take a good hard look at your own behaviour on this issue and the kind of values supposedly espoused by your faith. If your faith was a sport it would be time for the administration to charge you with bringing the faith into disrepute.

You consistantly attack "Make it up as you go" ethics and morals and then demonstrate the weakness of your own foundation by your actions.

I do take some effort to show the weakness and double standards of your position, I have the faintest hope that you may feel some shame for your actions and the stronger hope that others will be more likely to look beyond your weak and contrived claims and see what a house of cards you build upon.

R0bert