Perilous... do you consider that most OLO posters are 'rabble' ?

I think you have a fair point about providing an excuse for the 'rabble' to 'hate'.... but in any serious discussion this is inevitable. There will always be the fringe elements who don't see the deeper issue, just the surface one..

"Boaz condemns Islam.. Muslims are all bad, LET'S GET EM" That kind of thing? Fortunately we have laws and a police force here to protect the yet to be enlightened Muslim community from such rabble.

You also seem to be ignoring the 'other' rabble.. those who have taken 'religion' to a MUCH more serious extent, even to the point of allegedly seeking to blow us up.. they are currently on trial.

I know of no other 'rabble' who is anti Muslim currently on trial...do you?

In fact.. looking at this more analytically.

Muslim population approx 1.5% or 330,000
Muslims on trial for alledged terrorism 24 (Melb 13 Sydney 11)
24/330,000= .00008%

If Aussie 'rabble' were of a similar proportion there should be 1760 Aussie muslim haters on trial at the moment. Do you see them?

So, clearly the problem lies not with the "Aussie Rabble" but in the Muslim community.

F.H. I would rather you explain to me how what was 'sent down' by Allah is no longer applicable...then we have a starting point for discussion. When you are prepared to declare.

Surah 9 (the lastest to be revealed) is to be rejected for today (not re-interpreted) but REJECTED...
and when you are prepared to condemn surah 23:5-6 as 'outmoded, wrong, evil and definitely not from God'
and
33:50 as a shameful 'licence for virtually unlimited sex' and when you can "condemn political murders (ka'ab) in defense of Islam" then.. we will make progress. When you can show from the Sunnah, that the Fatwa on Salman Rushdie was not in any way possible.....

Until then, we have much discussion to go.
How about you goto Lakemba mosque..stand outside with signs to the above effect...I'll be your security :)

Not sure where you are going with this Boaz, but I'll play along.

>>...do you consider that most OLO posters are 'rabble'?<<

No. But unfortunately you treat them as if they are.

>>but in any serious discussion [providing an excuse for the 'rabble' to 'hate'] is inevitable. There will always be the fringe elements who don't see the deeper issue, just the surface one<<

Listen to yourself, why don't you?

A "serious discussion" does not consist of a never-ending stream of quotations from the Qur'an, accompanied by an explanation that they all mean i) that all non-Muslims will be killed in their beds and ii) it is all the fault of that evil prophet.

That is not a discussion, Boaz, that is invective. Aggressive, biased, purposeful, inflammatory invective.

There are no "deeper issues" here. Just the surface, and it is extremely ugly.

>>Muslims on trial for alledged terrorism 24 (Melb 13 Sydney 11)
24/330,000= .00008%. If Aussie 'rabble' were of a similar proportion there should be 1760 Aussie muslim haters on trial at the moment. Do you see them?<<

I could use precisely the same statistic to prove that the police are targetting Muslims, and turning a blind eye to Muslim-haters.

Let's say that the police last year prevented 1000 kilos of heroin reaching the market. This year the figure is 10 kilos. Does this mean i) the police have rid our streets of the drug problem, ii) have been asleep on the job for the past twelve months or iii) have diverted the smack and started dealing themselves?

The comparison is meaningless, isn't it?

>>So, clearly the problem lies not with the "Aussie Rabble" but in the Muslim community<<

That's exactly what I am talking about. You take a random isolated statistic involving a couple of dozen malcontents and turn it into an anti-Islam polemic.

I could take precisely the same statistic and use it as damning evidence that the police are conducting some form of religious vendetta.

Incidentally, your maths are almost as faulty as your logic.

Boaz,

You quote:
If Aussie 'rabble' were of a similar proportion there should be 1760 Aussie muslim haters on trial at the moment. Do you see them?

Actually the number will be 10 folds considering the number of complaints \i hear from Australian Muslim women. A key reason is Australian Muslims are far less likely to sue for discrimination or racism than, say American Muslims but when they will overcome that and understand their legal rights, there will be a lot more than your 1,760.

Park your missionary mumbo jumbo and lets talk sense:
Your claim of about the Quran makes no sense: if it was an Islamic rule, why did Muslims ignored it for the last 14 centuries? why did they maintain and protected christian and Jewish minorities when their counterparts didn't replicate? Why did 20 % of the arabs in many Islamic countries kept their faith, churches and synagogues?

Stop the 'mullah' approach of quotations and start thinking..

Bugsy -: "You wouldn't condsider christians to be a racial group would you"

Well actually if you had seen some of my earlier posts you would know that I do.

The IRA is one prime example of a christian racial group. They were the original Irish inhabitants before the British protestants another christian tribal group marched in an set up colonies in Ireland in the 1600's. The tribal warfare for control of Ireland waged by the Irish catholic tribe is rather well known.

The Catholics in early England who tried to wipe out the heretics were also a christian tribe. Catholics were very strict back then about Catholics only marrying Catholics this creates a bloodline or race. The uprising by the Catholics involved the planned assasination of the heretic Queen Elizabeth with the Aim of putting a catholic Queen on the throne and thus wresting control of England from the heretics who by and large werent of their bloodline. In other words the conflict was racial.

F.H. you are forgetting I have lived and worked in one of the most moderate Muslim controlled countries in the world... Malaysia, and I have seen and felt the 'mullah' approach on a daily basis.
Ask me who 'Haji Brahim' is/was ? He is the bloke I saw every day (slicing up buffalo's)who's job it was during the Brunei rebellion, to murder/slaughter ALL missionaries including children where I served.

In Malaysia there are 2 major forces to contend with.
a) Nominally Muslim, but more interested in power and wealth UMNO
b) PAS the Islamic party.
There is constant struggle by PAS to increase power and influence and they are the mob which wants to segregate all male and female this and that, including checkout registers at supermarkets.

I've been mistreated personally, threatened, used and abused.

The bottom line is, I fully understand how political Islam works and while it is difficult to quantify on small managable/understandable bits, I do know the danger signs. I see them here in Australia.
The Catch the Fire case is one such example.

You also seem to be forgetting that the Muslim mindset (maybe not urs) is based on the Quran, Hadith/Sunnah. What else can it be based on? Christians are based on the Bible. Some take it more seriously than others, but the DIFFERENCE is... taking the Bible seriously as a Christian, (and rightly understanding it) leads to
-Proclamation.
-Dialogue.
-love.

Now...you might say "Whoah BD..where is the 'love' in your posts?"

Well, its as real as that of a surgeon who says "I'm sorry, you have cancer and you are going to die within 3 months unless we remove the tumor"

I'll give you another opportunity to refute my claim.

1/ Surah 9 is the latest(or close to it) thus the most authoritative.
2/ The absense of Muslims carrying out 'genocide' does not mean they have not committed it 'culturally'. (They have done both, I speak from experience of the cultural version and 'close' to the physical)
3/ Surah 9...does..or does not, curse Christians (forever) based on their core belief about Christ?

F.H... "Moderate Muslims in Power"....

read and learn mate :) I judge on reality, not the sanitized version promoted by 'Islam is peace' Omar Merhi at the recent Leftoid Hicks meeting in Sydney

[Omar Mehri an ETU union delegate and brother of a Sydney man detained during the Melbourne/Sydney terror raids spoke next. We heard the usual platitudes “Islam is a religion of peace and harmony”, his brother “is a fine young man who would not consider terrorist acts” and he just said a “few silly things”.] (report).

Hindu Temples being destroyed in Malaysia... (but don't hope you will read about it in the Malaysian media)

http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/002227.html

Here is the Law Minister Malaysian link again.
http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/003402.html

"The 13 states of Malaysia have mostly adopted the Control and Restriction Bill, which gives a fine of 10,000 ringit ($2,653) or imprisonment for up to one year for "persuading, influencing a Muslim to leave Islam for another religion." On August 23, a week before independence, Mohamed Nazri Aziz, the Minister in the Prime Minister's Department, ordered that the "constitutional law" which forbids others to spread religions other than Islam to the Muslims must be streamlined nationwide."

Muslims in malaysia are 50.8% -are you tweaking to it yet mate ?

The pen....is indeed mightier than the sword... and I have the pen in my hand.

God loves you...and seeks to reconcile you to Himself through Christ Jesus.